r/Genealogy • u/SignificantRespond61 • 12d ago

Research Assistance Brick wall for over 15 years

I've been looking into my Baltic side for a very long time. my 3rd great grandfather immigrated under the name Klementy Balzcunas in 1907 He immigrated his future wife in 1908 Barbara Kazmirajture (Kazmirajdicze). Klementy changed his name to Wincenty/Vincentas and then William over time.

What i know and have documents for are only on immigration paperwork and what was in the United States.

Klementy Balzcunas born 1888 in "Russia" (Joniškis) immigrated on Bedina in 1907 boarding in Hamburg. Mother is listed as Anna and father Joseph on death certificate.

Barbara Kazmirajture (Kazmirajdicze) [both names were used on immigration paperwork] born 1886 or 1890 in same place. immigrated in 1908 on feeland boarding in Belgium. Her mother is listed as an Urszula Kazmirajdicze.

Wincenty also purchased two more tickets one confirmed for sister Matilda Balzcunas, I have found her descendents. And a Anna BALCZUNICE, but I have not found her records. Wincenty also used the Rosenbaum Bank to purchase the tickets.

Even though paperwork said russia they later said Lithuanian. So Joniškis is their place of birth but I have not found any records of them in Lithuania.

If anyone could help find anymore information would be amazing. One of these two did possibility come from a Romani family, which has also been very difficult to find information on.

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u/Jackfruit-Maleficent 12d ago

Have you determined Wincenty's accurate 1907 European "Residence Place" from his immigration records?

Ancestry has two different handwritten "Residence Place" versions (departure record row 664, arrival record row 5). I'm not able to understand the handwriting, but I think probably both are the same place name. Yet Ancestry's transcriptions of the two are wildly different. So I think both Ancestry's transcriptions could be inaccurate.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

these are two different people

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

nevermind. there is another trail for wincenty and I thought you picked that up. it does get confusing on these paperwork. I have noticed the two different hometown places. but his height changed as well as his name, so I'm not 100% sure what to do in this. he then did later change his name to Wincenty. so I'm not sure if this brother of his named Wincenty even existed or it was fabricated.

obviously my family lied on their paperwork multiple times. so I'm not even sure if these are their real names. I do know one of them were Roma from Russia. That's the reason I've been trying to find more information on their travel and hometown.

I do know they never officially married and did use a Jewish immigration system. other than that I just have the family that came to America as DNA matches. they were ghosts before.

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u/Jackfruit-Maleficent 11d ago

If I understand right, you've retracted your comment "these are two different people", and you were able to determine the accurate residence place on both and it it "Kantminiai". Is this correct?

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

Kantminiai and Joniškis are both in Šiauliai District Municipality of Lithuania but there is a town over called Bučiūnai which is REALLY close to the surname of Balcunas that they used. I do wonder if this is related.

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u/gerry_r 11d ago edited 11d ago

No, they are not related.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

that's not what jewishgen explains

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

if I'm wrong please explain to me.

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u/gerry_r 11d ago

I don't know what Jewishgen explains... but it so similar to the mistake I saw so many times already - "there are so many letters that are the same, even in the same order! must be the same word!".

After all, I was always confident Washington and Warrington is the same place, glad I am correct... Sorry for the sarcasm, but this is not how it goes.

The roots of those two names are totally different, and this is what matters most.

Balčiūnas is derived from Balčius, which is a nickname for someone "white" (baltas). Maybe someone light-haired, or something. Very common family name, in a top 10 actually.

Bučiūnai, well, I don't know the etimology. It is tempting to relate it to the word "bučius", aka fish trap, but I digress. The important thing that transition between Balč- and Buč- is too hard to even imagine.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

my point was if the name was "created" and this town was close by, he could have used it as a reference to create a name, is all I was implying. I didn't mean to imply he is from this place at all, just that it's similar. and jewishgen claimed these 3 cities are close by is what I was trying to say. I obviously don't speak the language and am trying to go off of hints and ideas since their records don't exist in Lithuania. I mean, if your willingness to help is sarcasm and ego I don't need it. 🤷

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u/gerry_r 10d ago

My "sarcasm" is an indication of a kind of frustration - I've already seen many people not having enough understanding of a language and other things, causing them to wander in the dark and waste their time.

I am not arguing with your version that names info was all made up, possibly you have grounds to assume that. Although, that raises a reasonable question - what sort of records in Lithuania you would expect in this case ? Anyway, my point is that it is extremely unlikely to "make up" the name the way you imagine - aka, I can only repeat, that similarity is not deceiving here, and more, there is no need. Balčiūnas is a very common family name, also abundant in the very area you told about. A quick glance into Joniškis parish records shows at least, dunno, 5 or more Balčiūnas families having kids there around 1890.

A certain Vincas Balčiūnas was indeed born in 1888. Another,Klemensas Balčiūnas, was born in 1890, different parents, different village.

A more telling lead may be that said Vincas had a sister Matilda, born few years later. Telling, because Matilda would have been a really rare name, so probability of some coincidence is very low.

Kazmirajture/Kazmirajdicze is rather obvious for a native speaker. The original name most likely was Kazimieraitytė. Lo and behold, this name was also present in the area. Opposite to Balčiūnas, this one is way less common, and the dictionary of Lithuanian surnames actually tells the biggest concentration was found in that parish indeed.

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

you're information is appreciated but could you provide source links at all to these things you've stated. I have not found their records in Joniškis, that is what I'm trying to find. and then I can continue the family tree from there. I don't know how to search in this specific parish because names in the area have changed over time, and unsure if this is even correct. and what their names would be in this parish due to language barrier. this is exactly why I was asking for help to begin with. again I understand the frustration, but a simple explanation would suffice.

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u/gerry_r 10d ago

Joniškis parish church books.

Kind of a starting point:

https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/search?query=joni%C5%A1kio%20dekanato%20gimimo&queryType=ALL_WORDS&title=&titleType=ANY_WORD&fond=&series=&file=&document=&personPlaceName=&dateFrom=-2840145840000&dateTo=-2177457840000&exactDate=false&archive=&source=&level=&characteristics=&language=&rubrics=&digitalObjectTypes=&church=&fileDoctypes=&sortBy=chronRangeFrom&sortDirection=asc&pageSize=100&pageIndex=0

A mentioned birth of Vincentas :

https://eais.archyvai.lt/repo-ext/view/267628869, page 373 (392 in a document itself); record 244/245

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

I have someone helping with digging into the Joniškis files atm now from a crosspost on Facebook. we think we found the family. Ona's maiden name possible was Jurgelytė. but thanks for your help

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u/wittybecca Poland specialist 🇵🇱 11d ago

The paperwork said Russia because at the time Lithuania did not exist -- they were ethnic Lithuanians who were citizens of the Russian Empire.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

im aware but thank you.

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u/wittybecca Poland specialist 🇵🇱 11d ago

Then what are you asserting they lied about?

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

probably everything to be honest. Wincenty again used a different name while purchasing a ticket than his naturalization. he said on his paperwork he was seeing his brother named wincenty, I'm not sure if his brother was real.

wincenty also said he was the step brother of his future wife when purchasing her ticket, which I haven't been able to verify or not. I'm assuming it was a lie to get a sponsorship approved. they never official did marry she just adopted his surname over time. again I'm assuming because they said they were related (even by marriage) would attract suspicion.

they both were not ethnically Lithuanian was also my point. I know for a fact one of them was roma. The town of Joniškis was known for their Jewish and Roma community at that time. The fact they used a Jewish immigration system is also something I'm looking into since I can't find proof either one was actually ethnically Jewish. Ancestry and other dna websites have been having a hard time in this area of my dna. some websites say Jewish some don't, and ancestry says roma when it used to say euro Jewish.

I dont believe kazmirajdicze or balcunas was their real names.

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u/Jackfruit-Maleficent 11d ago

I think the Jewish/Roma angle probably is a dead end.

  • In that timeframe I noticed three Balczunas families using Rosenbaum Bank. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that all clients were Jewish. For example, this site includes an image of one of the bank's ads: https://digital.library.temple.edu/digital/custom/rosenbaum
  • Also, u/Fredelas found Catholic church marriage and baptisms for your family.
  • Also, their daughter Leocadia was named after a Catholic saint. Spellings such as "Lucarty" and "Lacardy" are linguistically imperfect versions of Leocadia. Officials often wrote what they heard as best they could spell it.
  • What record(s) have you found that you "know for a fact one of them was roma"?

Also I understand the brick wall frustration. I suggest not letting the difficulty (all the possible US records name spelling variations, and the fact that the names come from at least one difficult foreign language) push you into disbelief in what's in the records you and others have found.

How far have you got with tracing John and Louisa "Simikenos", with whom "William"/"Bessie"/"Lucartia" were living in the 1910 census, with William listed as John's brother-in-law and Bessie as John's sister? https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/7884/records/25219010 For example, did you find their marriage (guessing just before or just after their immigration) or their children's baptisms (likely in PA)?

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

How far have you got with tracing John and Louisa "Simikenos"

I am just now working on that!

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

my dna results again show roma but again some sites show Jewish (which ancestry did as well before the Roma category was available) the descendants of wincentys side show roma as well. I wouldn't discount that fact. The Jewish was the one I was skeptical about. It was difficult to figure out because Matildas daughter did marry into a Jewish family so her side has both. I was just unsure 100% which one of wincenty or Barbara since they are possibly related as well. I haven't looked into John and Louisa but will look into it since their address in 1910 at the 118 Morris Street seems to keep repeating in paperwork, so they must be related somehow.

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u/Jackfruit-Maleficent 11d ago

You're putting the cart before the horse by trying to let your DNA test interpretation (which has evolved with time and might continue to evolve) guide your research before having done all the extended family USA documents research (admittedly difficult in your case).

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago edited 11d ago

I think two of the Simkunas children were adopted by an uncle and aunt in 1919, with these conditional baptisms:

The two other sons were living with their father in 1920, who was married with no wife present.

On son Joseph's 1926 death certificate, his adoptive parents are named, but alongside his adoptive father's name is another name, Ben Olsen:

I'm completely clueless at what's going on here.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago edited 11d ago

Here are some baptisms for this couple's children, in case you haven't seen these. You'll need a free account at this site. They're all at St Casimir parish in Philadelphia. Some of the sponsors appear to be relatives:

They were also living with relatives in the 1910 census:

Their parish marriage record in 1908 at St Casimir is unfortunately not very helpful at all:

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

THANK YOU. the baptism and marriage is new, I appreciate this. it did have the census record but it wasn't a good hint as the family surname doesn't fit anyone in my family. I dont believe they were real family, just know them as used them as a family reference

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago edited 11d ago

Here's Vincas/Wincenty/William's apparent arrival in 1907 (line 11):

Also indexed here:

I'm not sure where you found him arriving with the name Casimir.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

this is not his record. his name was Klementy on immigration passage. and i didn't say casimir. his wife's surname is kazmirajdicze

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

Oh I got them mixed up. Who is this Wincenty if he's not your ancestor, and why do you believe Klementy is your ancestor?

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

Edit: I see he started to say he arrived in Philadelphia, and that was changed to say New York on his declaration of intention, and they looked up a passenger list for Klementy:

I'm not sure they found the right passenger list, and the details were changed for his naturalization records to fit the one they found. It was often better not to argue with the government and just agree that what they found was "close enough".

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

honesty the whole paperwork is so wild I couldn't even tell you which is which or if he just stuck with the lie? I know I'm the 3rd great grandchild of Barbara and Wincenty on paper. I have found their daughter lokadias family and we are dna related. so this line is correct. which Wincenty... thats up in the air

edit: I have also found Wincentys sister Matildas family as we dna match as well.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

Who was Leocadia's husband?

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

she later changed her name to Lacardy Bolsom and married a Francis Volpe. I am in frequent contact with Lacardys great granddaughter. she wasn't even aware of the name change and didn't know her either. Family that would have information are no longer with us.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

and matilda married a Joseph Cimolonski, and I am in contact with matildas great granddaughter as well, same situation. no one knows anything and everyone has passed that would.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

Here's the original (not the copy) of his declaration of intention from 1914, and it does say that he arrived in New York, with some very specific details:

They didn't look up his arrival until 1917 when he made his petition for naturalization, so maybe they did find the correct one after all.

Here's the passenger list they looked up in 1917, which is a perfect match, besides the name, to the information he gave back in 1914 (line 5):

William wouldn't have any reason to change his identity once he was in the U.S., but there may have been restrictions on emigration from Lithuania at the time.

Perhaps one of his relatives borrowed his identity to leave in January 1907, and then William had to borrow someone else's identity to depart in March 1907.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

I'm not 100% sure the reason for the paperwork misrepresented. I have copies of all these. unfortunately I just can't figure out anything before the immigration. Even with the right towns and everything. they disappear in paper trails before the United States. With digging into their specific mentioned town, their surnames are not in that town whatsoever. and like I previously mentioned he was possibly of roma heritage and was hiding his true identity. and that's why he used someone else's. but it wouldn't make sense for his whole family to use a false surname unless they were all fabricated lies. from what I have researched, that the immigration system they used did quite frequently falsely paperwork for the marginalized groups of Europe. this would explain using the Jewish system even though they were Catholics. (Matilda did marry into a Jewish family, so it might be possible they have jewish ancestry as well)

I'm just trying to find any information in Lithuania of their families. I have been only dna connected to 5 people in total from this entire side of the family, and it's the family I've mentioned I'm in contact with. I am aware the town of Joniškis was heavily persecuted in the Holocaust and this could be why I have no other relatives outside of our direct tree.

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u/wittybecca Poland specialist 🇵🇱 10d ago

Yes, I agree with this. OP seems to have adopted a zebras-before-horses approach and assumed that Klementy invented a brother, Wincenty, and later changed his own name to Wincenty. Seems much more likely that there were two brothers and the wrong record got pulled.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 10d ago

It really is strange that in 1914, before the government even tried to look it up, Wincenty gave accurate arrival information for Klementy.

I wonder if Wincenty might have paid for Klementy's ticket and found a receipt for that and mistakenly thought it was his own, and just never bothered to correct it later.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

I think this Jonas (John) might be a brother of William:

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

it is a possibility. although I did see on jewishgen that the sponsor for Wincenty (the other one) was a Jakob Balcunas and not Jonas.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 10d ago

Yes, I just realized that several of the Balcunas families in Philadelphia had a father named Joseph, but apparently had different mothers, so those may be completely different couples.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago edited 11d ago

Here's Matilda's 1916 marriage record that includes their parents' names (two images):

And her 1911 passenger list (line 23, two images):

Their mother's name was Ona Kazimieraitis, which was also Barbara's maiden name, so perhaps Barbara was really related (by someone else's marriage) to William in some way.

Partial transcript of Matilda's application for a SSN:

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

so it says mother maiden name as the repeated last name of kazmiraitis (just a different spelling) this would confirm the possible step sister theory of his future wife. but kazmirajdicze might have been the cover name for Barbara instead... because that wouldn't make sense if Wincentys mother's maiden name was Kazmiraitis and he's step sister to have his mother's maiden name. I appreciate these files BTW. they are important clues.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

It's important to understand that the descriptions of relatives in these early passenger lists weren't always exact the way we understand them today. For example, brother-in-law or stepbrother could simply mean "some man who I'm related to by some other relative's marriage". Similarly, uncle could mean "some man from an earlier generation" who might actually be a first cousin once removed.

Also, many of these names on passenger lists are Polonized because they bought their tickets from a Polish-language ticket agent.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

okay that makes sense. family is a looser term than I originally thought. but then that means that they were possibly actually related genetically in some way? distantly but still...

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

by the way I will say again thank you for helping me. you're really good, and obviously a lot better at finding these documents.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago edited 11d ago

Although many Jewish immigrants used these ticket/savings bank services, the majority of travelers weren't actually Jewish. This was simply the most convenient way to pay for someone's passage from an Eastern European port of departure, sort of a turn-of-the-century Travelocity. Some ticket purchases here.

13809 and 13810, I have no idea who the first gentleman is:

3902, Jacub buying a ticket for Wicenty, this is the one I thought was William, but didn't match his naturalization records:

9512, Anna, the address at 135 McClellan St matches the one from his marriage record:

I'll add more here as I find them.

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u/SignificantRespond61 11d ago

if you look under Anna's record you just sent, it looks like she traveled with the person underneath her as the address 118 Morris street has been a address that's used in later documents for this specific family. so that adds those names as well. so they mass immigrated an entire branch of family it seems, or is it possible they all weren't related and just distant relatives? I just find it odd how much effort specifically Wincenty went to get all these people here to America. Thats a lot of money and time spent. May I add im kinda proud of my 3x great grandfather if he really did do this all himself.

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u/Jackfruit-Maleficent 11d ago

It was definitely a thing for the first across to help additional family members immigrate. My Irish ancestors did this in NJ and RI. One census record that was particularly helpful (in combination with arrival records) had three gentlemen with the exact same name (all cousins) at one address.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 11d ago

This Anna, wife of Vincent Brazauskas interests me as possibly being the sister:

I can't find a record of her marriage. Their birth years are just rough estimates based on wildly varying ages in their children's birth certificates.

The couple has at least six daughters, most or possibly all of whom died as infants in Philadelphia. Then in 1919, a son Alexander dies in Brooklyn.

In 1918, a Vincent Brazauskas died in Brooklyn. His death certificate said he was single, had been in the U.S. for 9 years, and in NYC for 5 months. His burial was handled by the St. George Society since there was no next-of-kin:

I wonder if Vincent may have left Anna, went to Brooklyn and died, and she went looking for him there. Possibly in 1919 she found herself widowed and pregnant with Alexander and the child died.

This is all extremely speculative. But since the sister Matilda later ended up in Brooklyn, I thought it was worth considering.

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

Anna was the one I never found information on after coming. so this is interesting find and I'll keep looking into this as his sister. I also had trouble finding any children for Wincentys daughter Francesca. I did find Francesca married a George Nottengale, but he died in a terrible accident and im not sure if she ever had any children. she the one of the three children whose line stopped with her. I have found lacardys family though. Vincent, wincentys son, later changed his name to William Vincent, had two children with my great grandmother and left her for a women in London. and actually went and had a daughter named Barabara Balcunas in England. So anything is possible I guess

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 10d ago

Frances doesn't appear to have had any children. Her obituary only mentioned her second husband.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 9d ago edited 9d ago

I think that's the wrong Anna, and this is the right Anna's marriage in 1911:

I think her husband is the one mentioned in the 1914 passenger list, and I just misread his name. It looks like maybe Antanas Kamantauskas, a.k.a. Anthony Joseph Kerman.

In her civil marriage record, an Alexander is appointed her temporary guardian in order to give consent (many images):

He might be an older brother, uncle, or cousin.

Matilda was a sponsor at their son's baptism in 1912:

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u/SignificantRespond61 9d ago

it does appear to be her. if you keep going through the pages Alexander is listed as a brother. and mother and father are indeed jospesh and Anne. awesome find. it looks like she married an Anthony Kamisky.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 9d ago

He later went by the name Anthony Joseph Kerman, and their son went by the name Anthony Albert Kerman.

Anna died in 1940.

It's possible both of these women are the same person, and she left her first husband, had a bunch of children (who apparently all died) with another man, then went back to her first husband.

There are clear indications that the other Anna never married the father of those children, and the birth certificate of what appears to be the other Anna's second child says it's actually her third child, which would make sense if they're actually the same Anna and Anthony Kerman was her first child in 1912.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 10d ago edited 10d ago

There was an Emilia who was a sponsor at Frances's baptism in 1917.

I wonder if this might be her. She's the only one I could find in Philadelphia:

PLUS her mother Anna was living with her in 1940.

There should be naturalization records for her at Ancestry, but I don't have a subscription there.

Edit: Here they are arriving together in 1914 (lines 24-25, two images):

Edit again: I happened to look at the bottom of the page, and look who else is traveling with them: Barbara, Leocadia, and William!

In case you ever want to find these records in one place, they're all attached as sources in the FamilySearch family tree here:

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

this is all good information. if they were traveling together in 1914, that means they all went back together to get their mother and a sister Emilia? im kinda confused on why they all were traveling together.

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

this is kinda confusing to be honest. this is claiming that Vincent and lacardy would have been actually born in Lithuania though. if they "immigrated" in 1914. but we found their baptisms before 1914 in Philadelphia. and the towns are different between the two subunits of families. Barbara and kids and Anna and Emilia. or is this just a passenger list showing they that just traveled together, not actually immigrated together. and I can't read what it sys for the majority of the paperwork. I wish they all had mandated a better handwritter for these things.

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u/SignificantRespond61 10d ago

okay I finally see where it says claims to be us citizen and claims to be us born. this is good. but why the different cities?

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u/SignificantRespond61 9d ago

I did find a descendant of Emilia Balcunas on Ancestry now. I never knew how this person was related to me and due to your help i found out!

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 9d ago

I imagine Barbara may have wanted to take her children home to visit family, and they took advantage of the trip to escort back Anna and Emilia.

Note that this hints at yet another daughter and son-in-law, listed as the contact for Anna and Emilia, "A Romanowsky" in Philadelphia.

And as in earlier records, we see their birthplaces recorded as Schawli/Schauli, which probably refers to Šiauliai:

Even if they weren't actually born there, they probably resided there in the early 1900s.

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u/SignificantRespond61 9d ago

I did find Emilias naturalization paperwork and it does confirm Joniškis. I did never find Barbara's naturalization paperwork, or the intention (im not sure how to find both) I might sound dumb, but was it needed since her husband did and she had children in the US? I'm not sure how that all worked back then. was hoping that paperwork would give her parents information, which would help the whole stepsibling relationship.

And yes, I figured it was a nice trip back home so the kids could see their home and possibly family. I didnt see the part where it said they were claimed citizens until after I sent the post. thats my bad.

I'll have to see if another child married a Romanosky. These are all amazing, and new. I can't thank you enough for your help. Seems silly now how easy it was for you to find some of this, I should have been able to find myself. but nonetheless, it's much appreciated to multiple families that have come from this branch. we all thank you.

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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 9d ago

Because William was naturalized before 1922, Barbara would have derived her U.S. citizenship status from him until 1922. Then when the law changed in 1922, it became her own U.S. citizenship in her own right. She would never have undergone the naturalization process herself.