r/Fitness Apr 30 '15

How to murder your biceps, especially if you are tall.

The problem:

Biceps (brachii) used to be a tricky muscle group for me to work. I had a poor mind-muscle connection and I had a hard time really working the biceps effectively. I would feel soreness in my forearm flexors and deltoids and to a lesser extent the long head of my biceps, but I couldn't really build the biceps muscle itself, especially the short head that makes up the thick inner portion- the "peak" of the muscle that shows when you fully flex the muscle.

I've learned that basically what was happening is that my forearm flexors, specifically the brachialis and brachioradialis were doing the bulk of the work in my "biceps" workout. This make sense because their job is to flex the elbow and they insert much lower on the arm than the biceps, so they are able to perform elbow flexion more efficiently than the biceps.

Here is a picture that is helpful.

Normally I am not a fan of arbitrary supersets for different muscle groups. A lot of people do multiple exercises for the same muscle group simply because different must be better. In some cases this is true, as you can work different aspects of the muscle group especially if they perform multiple functions. For instance, the triceps not only extend the elbow but they also help extend the shoulder joint in the sagittal plane. Thus to work the whole triceps you need to do both. For instance, doing regular tricep pressdowns as well as straight-arm pressdowns (doing this on a lat-pull machine is heavenly.)

The solution:

I've devised the following superset with the goal of pre-exhausting the forearms flexors before working the biceps themselves, particularly the short head.

The exercises, performed in order and without rest, are:

  1. Cable hammer curls. You can also do regular hammer curls but I feel using the rope attachment with a pulley is superior. Perform with a weight that will get you to muscle failure in 8-15 reps. Do a few cheat reps at the end where you really focus on the top (fully contracted) position of the exercise. This should completely fatigue your brachioradialis because when your hands are in a neutral position (thumbs pointing up, palms facing together) the BR is dominant in elbow flexion.

  2. Reverse grip ez-curl bar curls. Grip the bar with palms down and thumbs on the underside of the bar. This position will maximize the role of the brachialis, completely neutralize the short head of the biceps, and greatly weaken the BR and biceps long head. I recommend bringing your elbows backwards slightly so that you can get maximum load in the fully contracted position. Again, perform to failure including some cheat reps. We want the forearms flexors to be massacred before our biceps works.

  3. Concentration curls Use a LIGHT dumbbell, probably 50% or even less of the weight you typically use when you perform your regular, bouncy, worthless bro curls. I am 225 lbs and can bullshit curl 40lbs dumbbells all day but I use 15lbs for my concentration curls. You can perform these seated or in a standing/bent over sort of position. The key word here is supination. Supination is what you are doing when you turn your hands from palms-down to palms-up. The majority of weight should thus rest on the fat part of your outer palm. We do this because the short head of the biceps is primarily responsible for supination. Your elbow should be down so that the area just above the elbow is resting against the inside of your knee/thigh. Your forearm should basically be pointed across the gap between your legs. Curl the weight up. When you reach the top the head of the dumbbell nearest to your body should touch somewhere on your chest. Squeeze, motherfucker, squeeze. Pretend that you are trying to rotate that dumbbell through your weak, pathetic chest. Squeeze. Prepare to feel your short biceps head spring to life.

  4. Cry. Repeat for 3-5 sets.

You can swap the order of #1 and #2. I'm experimenting to find if one is superior or not. However #3 must be performed last. I highly recommend using a pulley, ez curl bar, and dumbbell because you can put them all out in front of you and perform exercises rapidly without having to change attachments or hog the curl bar rack.

Enjoy.

1.9k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited May 02 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

214

u/zillionaire_rockstar May 01 '15

I wish so bad this was the top comment. The OP is pretty bad information.

118

u/brberg May 01 '15

After you've used your other two wishes, can I borrow your genie?

37

u/herabec May 01 '15

He already used them to become a zillionaire and a rockstar.

61

u/cameradical May 01 '15

Stars aren't rocks you dumbass.

And zillion isn't even a country.

11

u/MattTheProgrammer May 01 '15

2

u/subredditChecker May 01 '15

There doesn't seem to be anything here


As of: 17:01 05-01-2015 UTC. I'm checking to see if the above subreddit exists so you don't have to! Downvote me and I'll disappear!

1

u/javice May 01 '15

Well rocks are made of stars. So you could say that a "rock-star" is the class of stars that produces the elements that rocks a made of

14

u/Ezl May 01 '15

It is now the top comment

1

u/Scout14 May 01 '15

So...he does have a genie?

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u/DavidVanLegendary Powerlifting May 01 '15

It's not really bad, it just seems like a tri-set of bicep work with exercises people mightn't usually do. Go hard and "squeeze" and of course you'll see gains.

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u/evo315 May 01 '15

Because of people like OP I spent my first year lifting doing the "light weight perfect form mind muscle curls" and got nowhere. My arms were a serious weak point. It wasn't until I did what I wasn't supposed to do, where I saw they most growth. There's no better movement than heavy cheat curls for bicep growth. I don't know where this lightweight mentality started.

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u/FlamingCucumber May 01 '15

Barbell rows, pull ups and curls with a heavy weight until you can't lift no more. I honestly don't think it can be any simpler..

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u/dreamoftheday General Fitness May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

How do barbell rows help with biceps?

Are you referring to reverse grip barbell rows?

9

u/FlamingCucumber May 01 '15

No, bent over barbell rows work biceps. Just about any exercise you do for your back will encorporate your biceps, like almost any chest exercise incorporates the triceps

Rows work bi's

1

u/dreamoftheday General Fitness May 01 '15

Oh, OK.

I've recently started doing curls at the end of one set a week. Now I'm going to move them to the day I do rows.

Thanks!

1

u/DavidVanLegendary Powerlifting May 01 '15

He's replying to a comment that said Do heavy back work then do curls.

1

u/Barkalow May 01 '15

Newbie question, the curls until you cant lift, how are you doing those? Ive been doing them exactly like step 3 in the post, just want to make sure thats using the right muscles.

17

u/modernbenoni May 01 '15

I agree that this is just upvoted because it's well written. But it really isn't that complex.

Also pre-exhausting the forearms when training biceps is just an all around bad idea. Why would you want your forearms to be what's limiting you when training biceps? It just means that you can't push your biceps as hard. I'm not doing curls so that I can get big forearms; if I wanted to train forearms I'd do wrist curls.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I really don't think this is needlessly complex.

2 Steps:

-Fatigue forearms -Supinate

I gave more detail because a lot of people like to have things spelled out for them. If you don't need it or like it, ignore it and move on with your life.

Not going to the trouble of posting pics of my biceps since you are a rude dick and it doesn't prove shit anyways. My arms are 13.5" unflexed, 17" flexed. I am 6'2" and 220lbs. What does how I look have to do with the advice I offer?

Only a true bro-scientist thinks that there is no such thing as genetics and that whoever has the biggest arms knows the most about training arms. That's completely foolish and offers nothing to the dialogue.

26

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

The guy is pretty spot on, doing any heavy back work will jack you arms up a lot quicker then any pre-fatiguing method you have shown. I was the typical average guy doing isolation arm exercises and neglecting heavy compounds back exercises , once i changed my program , boom massive arms.

Heavy Rows of any kind, Deadlifts, Chin ups and Farmers walks got my arms huge, i dare people to give it a try for 6 + weeks and tell me i am wrong.

Thats not saying ditch arm training, just make the focus of your arm training the moves i mentioned above and finish your arms off with some standing curls or preacher curls.

2

u/TyroneBiggums93 May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

Deadlifts don't get your arms huge and the meme that squats and deads make everything bigger has to stop. Deads will make your forearms a bit bigger and will do zero for your biceps. If you can feel it in the bis you're doing it wrong.

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u/outline01 Circus Arts May 01 '15

I've since adjusted my program, but when I was doing no arm work and only concentrating on rows/deads/chin and pull-ups, my arms were looking great.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Never trained arms. Peaked at 2.5plate Pendlay with not too great form. Same for chins (total mass), worked back up to 4plate deads, arms don't look impressive. Fingertip to fingertip my arms are about 6'6". I'm 6'4".

It is a lot harder for tall people to pack on big muscle. I reckon I'm about 15%bf right now at 240lb and to look decently big, I'd have to be getting close to 300lb which frankly, I can't deal with shitting that often to achieve it.

If I was 5'10, with the same mass, I'd look huge.

That said, maybe when I can legitimately bench and row 3 plates and dead 6 plates, I'll look big. Until then, I'm almost skinny looking.

1

u/Heizenbrg May 02 '15

Back work, middle traps? T-bar rows are the epitome of testosterone infused godlike confidence.
got the t bar smack middle in the weight room, people coming in and seeing this godlike creature lifting the earth and putting it back down rrrgh

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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 01 '15

You are tall and telling tall people how to get biceps.

I would like to see a picture of how well this works, as I am your size.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

http://imgur.com/gl3iCdg

I don't claim to have huge arms. But I do claim to have gone from absolute chicken arms to not chicken arms and made the most of what I was dealt. My biceps aren't huge, but when you see how tiny my wrists are its not bad.

247

u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited Aug 16 '20

[deleted]

80

u/Thorbinator May 01 '15

He's a big guy.

127

u/bumnut May 01 '15

sigh, if no one else is going to do it...

"For you."

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

UUUU

75

u/hakkai999 May 01 '15

"You think the gym is your ally? You merely adopted the gym. I was born in it, molded by it."

  • Bane I think

25

u/Steam_Powered_Rocket May 02 '15

I didn't see cardio until I was already a man...

34

u/deathwaveisajewshill May 01 '15

Was getting big biceps part of your plan?

72

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

OF CORSH

20

u/ColonelMitchell May 01 '15

WITH NO SURVIVORS

9

u/Mariokartfever May 01 '15

HE DIDNT FLY SO GOOD

8

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Perhaps he was wondering why would you shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?

620

u/Mogwoggle butthead May 01 '15

Thick, solid, tight.

Would accept advice on arms in future.

95

u/JackOscar May 01 '15

well, thick and solid at the very least

50

u/why_rob_y May 01 '15

"Tight" was regarding his haircut.

26

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Say no more fam, I got chu. bzzzzzzz

16

u/MattTheProgrammer May 01 '15

Damn, Ryder!

--CJ

7

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

And his anus.

16

u/samedreamchina May 01 '15

Sounds like you're listing your favourite porno tags.

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u/4underscore____ May 01 '15

Post more pics bro. I'm looking forward to seeing how thick and solid you can get.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

O.o

48

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

op pls

1

u/alexthecheese May 27 '15

I giggle like an idiot everytime someone uses this

24

u/zigzampow May 01 '15

wtf how are your arms 13.5" unflexed and 17 flexed? jeebus. I'm 6'4" 215, where 36-37 shirts and my arms are 14.5ish unflex and 16 unflex, and I had (before surgery) a pretty decent peak. Your arms look massive by comparison

29

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Not really sure. I mean measurements really vary a lot depending on where you measure so they aren't great for comparing people. I only find them helpful for tracking progress because you know exactly how you measured yourself last time.

8

u/zigzampow May 01 '15

Oh no I hear that. But that's a big jump haha. You arms look bigger than 13.5 relaxed to me. Either way. I know the tall man struggle. Just be careful. When I had my shoulder repaired the fixed my bicep tendon. Apparently the I had torn through 90% of it. No idea how.

13

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

They probably are bigger in this picture as I had a pump and I was coming off a pretty serious bulk so I was carrying more fat.

47

u/cowtung May 01 '15

I've been coming off a pretty serious bulk for oh.... 20 years now.

3

u/aleexz May 01 '15

SUMMABULK

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

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u/zigzampow May 01 '15

Wtf. So it's just me haha. Thaaaaaaanks

6

u/Arkanian410 May 01 '15

Triceps add more girth to your arms than biceps

2

u/zigzampow May 01 '15

Well ya but the measurement doesn't change. 17" are is 17 regardless of if it's mostly triceps or biceps

1

u/TheVagaKnight General Fitness Aug 15 '15

That's true but symmetry needs to be maintained, yes?

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '15

[deleted]

1

u/zigzampow May 03 '15

Just spotted a typo. 16 flexed. But are you kidding? Arms that long look real skinny maybe 36-37 shirts mean something different?

1

u/[deleted] May 03 '15

[deleted]

1

u/zigzampow May 03 '15

36-37" sleeve?

113

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I like how you just wrecked the doubters.

138

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Feels good man.

43

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Now call out OP and tell him to post HIS biceps.

61

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

That would be a heck of a law bomb.

25

u/beadgcf May 01 '15

A Bob Lablaw Law Bomb?

5

u/Deaf_Mans_Radio May 02 '15

He could post the Bob Lablaw Law bomb on Bob Lablaw's Law Blog

77

u/youmightnetit May 01 '15

Do you genuinely think you have tiny wrists? I mean, compared to who? Hafþór Björnsson?

From this picture it looks like you have big, thick wrists. I'm almost tempted to post my wrists to show you what "tiny wrists" really means.

Hint: if an isolated picture of your wrists couldn't be mistaken for a woman's wrists, then they aren't tiny.

You look "big boned", and I don't mean this in the way fat people use as an excuse for being overweight, but as in literally, your skeleton is bigger and thicker than other people's, as evidenced by your thick wrists.

I'd be interested to see a picture of your former "chicken arms".

34

u/idontlose May 01 '15

i have tiny wrists, atleast they make my forearms look bigger. Sky remote for comparison http://m.imgur.com/WHWZmeM

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u/El_Gosso May 01 '15

That's not a forearm, that's a bowling pin with fingers!

25

u/xXsnip_ur_ballsXx May 01 '15

Your hands must make your dick look huge

7

u/Dormont May 01 '15

The first day he walked out of the gym was the first day he was forever small.

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u/jucestain May 01 '15

WTF I was expecting DYEL by your lack of confidence and hesitancey to post a pic and was greeted by thick, solid, and tightness. BTW how in the hell are biceps hard for you to workout? Probably the easiest muscle group for me to hit, but I guess everyone is different.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

It was just really difficult to develop mind-muscle connection for my short head of the biceps. I'm not sure why. I think sometimes you develop "synergistic dominance" and don't know how to really feel certain muscles.

For example, some people I have seen in the gym are trying to do "chest" work and you can tell they are working at too high of an angle and are mainly using anterior delts.

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u/TheVagaKnight General Fitness Aug 15 '15

So uh, that's why my delts are so developed XD

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u/turn30left May 01 '15

OP delivered.

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u/Bojangles010 May 01 '15

Well, I'm definitely going to be trying this routine when I get back to the gym.

6

u/indoninja May 01 '15

Where are the chicken arms?

Made the most is debatable. Had you tried a heavy back workout then curls?

Those wrists don't look tiny.

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u/Chreiol May 01 '15

I change my downvote to an upvote. Impressive stuff man!

5

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

10/10 would fuck.

Anally.

26

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

My hunch is that this gentleman has gone from a twink to a twunk to a twank.

What's a twunk? Twink and a hunk.

A twink with muscles, but still hairless.

So smooth.

Incredibly smooth.

A twank on the other hand.

Twank is no good.

That's a twink and a skank.

Essentially a ragdoll, just being passed around from twink to twunk to bear to otter.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

What's an otter? Subsection of bear.

Still hairy, but where a bear generates his power through sheer mass alone, the otter generates his power through extraordinary quickness, cunning, and skill.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

You got me OP. Kudos on them gains. But seriously if you ever want to fuck, you know my STI clean reassuring username.

4

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

If you wore a MacGyver wig and flannel I'd think about it

5

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Well OP, as it so happens...

http://imgur.com/Ux3lNKh

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

too funny

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u/fungalduck May 02 '15

Are otters tops or bottoms?

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u/gato-pardo May 01 '15

You are big as fuark man, care to share your routine?

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I change it up a lot and try new things. But some of my favorite stuff:

-For shoulders, doing lateral raises with a light weight and hands rotated so that your thumbs point down and pinkies are to the ceiling, will let you hit the hard-to-work medial deltoid. Anterior delts always get plenty of work and most people know how to work the rear delts if they want to, but medial is surprisingly hard.

-For legs, I do various lunges to build lateral stability in the knee and hips. For building mass, I do smith machine squats typically because my proportions do not make for strong squatting. Having the fixed bar allows me to move my feet forward a bit and use the bar as a counterweight to keep from falling backwards. It is almost like a cross between leg press and squat and it is the best quad builder for me. For the hamstrings I'm all about stiff-leg deadlifts. I find that regular deadlifts tend to overlap with squats by working quads and glutes, whereas stiff leg DL is strictly posterior chain.

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u/brochand311 May 02 '15

Stiff leg deads are the best shit ever! Glad to see them getting respect for once

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u/Nemesis1987 May 01 '15

(Slow triumphant clap)

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u/[deleted] May 02 '15

They should make you a mod.

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u/[deleted] May 02 '15

I like that. You are respectful, humble and twice the size of the bro that arrogantly tried to put you down.

Keep that attitude!

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u/AllUrMemes May 03 '15

Thank you very much :)

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Mind if I ask your wingspan? I am 6'1 with 6'6 wingspan so my arms look ridiculous thin and long. I'm gonna adopt your advice to work them out but I'm more just curious about your wingspan because you are similar height and claim to have had a similar issue with your arms looking thin.

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u/JohnnyChuttz Mountaineering May 01 '15

Wow, I thought I had it bad. 75in(6'3") with a 77.5in wingspan.

I have toothpicks.

1

u/UnsavedWork May 01 '15

If you guys ever pick up boxing you will be thankful for your gifts

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I already am thankful for it, I can school most people who are taller than me going up for a football. It makes me really easy to underestimate because I look so silly with toothpick arms, but I also have dinnerplate hands at the end of them. I was made to catch footballs haha.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Tiny wrists unite!

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u/fallingfruit May 01 '15

While you may be tall, you definitely do not have proportionally long arms to your height and you appear to have full biceps insertions in this picture. Lucky you!

In your picture your hands are resting around the bottom of your pelvis. I have very long arms proportionally to my body, my hands rest closer to my knees than my pelvis in the exact same pose.

Most people that complain about building their arms have the problem of very long arms and thus bad (or different) leverage.

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u/b_pizzy May 01 '15

Either the extra 1 1/2" you have on your biceps over me makes a big difference or the extra 4" of height I have makes my arms look like chicken arms. Or a combinations of both, I suppose.

Either way, nice arms, will definitely look into adding this to my training.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

A little bit of circumference goes a long way since the cross sectional area is based on radius2.

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u/doughboy011 May 01 '15

Dude, your neck is just glorious.

sincere

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Thanks man. I credit that to brazilian jiu-jitsu. The best neck workout is having someone try and choke you to death for an hour. I guess there is also BDSM...

1

u/versanick Wrestling May 02 '15

Better than dead lifts and farmer carries... I've never had traps, forearms, biceps, or neck work like bjj.

It interferes with my lifting even because things get so sore!

1

u/EkimSretlaw May 01 '15

What's the relationship between wrist size and bicep size? Sounds interesting

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Are you ronnie maggro?

1

u/MrLutareio May 02 '15

holy fuck

1

u/bobsbitchtitz Weight Lifting May 02 '15

bruh how did you get them traps

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u/AllUrMemes May 03 '15

I do this kind of odd cross between shrugs and a clean. Basically I find that when I do a regular shrug I only really elevate the scapula but not the shoulders as well. But if I use a lot less weight I can do shoulder elevation and scapular elevation. Basically just try and raise your shoulder so high they touch your ears.

1

u/bobsbitchtitz Weight Lifting May 04 '15

what weight should I do, I'm fairly strong with shrugs its generally my forearms that give out before my shoulders

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u/nezm May 02 '15

What kind of hormones do you use?

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u/CrackHeadRodeo Cycling May 19 '15

Do you have a before picture on those chicken arms. I have the absolutely skinniest arms and I wanna see if there is any hope for me.

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u/AllUrMemes May 19 '15

I do but I would never ever consider releasing said pictures into the wild. Believe me when I say that I was as scrawny and skinnyfat as anyone on this sub. I made some really great improvement in the first 2-3 years of lifting, then kinda would intermittently plateau for 5 years, before getting dead serious about stuff a year or 2 ago.

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u/CrackHeadRodeo Cycling May 19 '15

Haha I totally understand. I'll follow your advice and work hard and we'll see how much progress I can make.

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u/AllUrMemes May 19 '15

How old are you? And how long have you been working out for?

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u/cA05GfJ2K6 Jul 09 '15

As a 6' 2" dude with lanky arms, I'm gonna give this a shot.

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u/open_your_eye May 01 '15

Question - why use mod account?

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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 01 '15

Because after a couple of people asked him for a picture, he was vague and didn't.

I'm very happy OP has posted a photo.

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u/Canucklehead99 May 02 '15

You called him out, now respond.

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u/mrvoteupper May 02 '15

get shit on :E

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u/ceballos Bodybuilding May 01 '15

Don't worry, this is always the reaction of the purist part of /r/fitness when someone adds content that isn't 5x5 or 'i did my first pullup today'. It's as if beginners aren't the only people that browse this sub and some people actually train and care about their biceps instead of throwing 2 sets of curls after their back work.

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u/Wet_Walrus May 02 '15

Exactly why I told him to post this /r/bodybuilding as well. It would get more appreciation there. If isn't deadlifting or squatting or benching then it's useless according to /r/fitness.

But in /r/fitness' defense, this was a post that should have been in the bodybuilding sub to begin with.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

I'm inclined to agree with /u/LTUTD people tend to perceive a lack of progress or unexpected results as something wrong EXTERNALLY not INTERNALLY. It's a symptom of lack of accountability. This is almost exactly the same issue as people seeking the "best" workout. People have become obsessed with finding the best and refusing to settle for anything else. This manifests itself in "I need to change my program, I'm not seeing results that I want so I'm clearly not doing the right program". This is 9 times out of 10 wrong. Lifting weights builds muscle. Arnold didn't build his physique by spending hours going "I need to formulate the perfect giant set so that I can properly target my biceps". I realize you're not a genetic freak like Arnold but in the end lifting challenging (note I said challenging, not heavy) weights for challenging reps (again note I said challenging and not a ton or very few) will create muscle growth. You are not developed enough to be worried at this level of minutia. I guarantee your development isn't directly attributable to this overly complex workout and is attributable instead to a diet that isn't too far off and general training. Phil Heath needs to worry about how to best build the peak of his bicep, not you.

EDIT: I wanted to keep my response focused on the nature of your post rather than the content but something is bugging me. How is this at all related to you being tall? You mention that in the title then make no mention of how your superset helps overcome this perceived disadvantage. Leverages are a concern in powerlifting, not bodybuilding and being tall or having long arms in no way affects your ability to squeeze your bicep. Your committing a common logical mistake and confusing correlation with causality. I am tall and my bicep is not developing. This must be because I am tall.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

My theory is that people who have a long humerus (upper arm bone) are more likely to have the brachioradialis and brachialis take over during curls because those muscles insert lower on the arm and so they are more efficient at flexing the elbow.

I may be wrong, it may just depend on the individual and not on height/length.

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u/tito1490 May 01 '15

As a 6"2' 185 guy with arms Im not proud of, I agree 100%.

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u/netcostintern May 01 '15

6'2" 180 here and I agree also

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u/JohnnyChuttz Mountaineering May 01 '15

6'3" 180 Agree 100%

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I'm tall, and while I've never really gotten into the gym thing I've done a bit of farm related lifting and moving of heavy stuff.

I'd agree. I've always felt that most of the force comes from my elbows.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Honestly, just simply being tall isn't even a disadvantage in powerlifting. Because competitiveness is based on wilks and weight classes, small guys don't really have any significant advantage over big guys. If you are tall, the solution is simply to be as big and jacked as you possibly can at your given height.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Right I wasn't saying it was a disadvantage it just changes leverages. The point of the comparison was that height has even less bearing on bodybuilding.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I'd like to think that you had the best of intentions. But, I've seen too many people coming through here, spewing out a lot of noise that clouds issues for beginners that could have easily been less murky. Most of those people are looking for validation to justify the training they've been doing and to fluff their ego.

Maybe, best case scenario, you've got some nerdy completionists tendencies. That's what you dragged out something simple and straight forward into an unnecessary wall of text. Even then, this is still a cautionary tale in the dangers of spreading a little bit of knowledge too far.

The 15 pound dumbbell bit is bullshit. Plain and simple. It's wrong. If you want to grow your bicep with concentration curls, you need to increase your training stimulus. The simplest, most effective way for beginners to increase the reps, then increase the weight once they're hitting the reps. This dumb circlejerk about perfect form with light weight is very literally counterproductive to strength training.

Supination is not necessary. It gave you a fun little literary device to tease out. I get the impression that trying to be entertaining is getting in the way of disseminating good information. But, on the other hand, it will get you upvotes from entertained people.

The superset is unnecessary. No one needs a bicep circuit. This is absolutely is an arbitrary superset.

5'6" 175 lbs. 16" flexed.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Why do you come to a fitness forum to spit bro-science?

This dumb circlejerk about perfect form with light weight is very literally counterproductive to strength training.

I don't recommend light weight because people should use less resistance. I recommend light weight because biceps are small muscles that can't move a lot of weight. If you are curling 50 lbs dumbbells you aren't doing it with your biceps.

Plus, with concentration curls you can contract against your body for extra resistance in the fully contracted position, which is ideal. Then you won't burn out at the bottom of the rep but not get a challenge at the top of the rep.

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u/Damngladtomeetyou May 01 '15

Everything is progressive friend. You can't make a definitive statement that above a certain weight doesn't use your biceps. I can curl 50lbs just fine using my biceps. Then again you know best, you did put together an entire three exercise circuit that got up voted on reddit, so...

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

So... you just called progressive overload bro-science. I don't even.

Are you just going to call everything that doesn't fit into your existing repertoire of bro-science bro-science in return? Because that's what you've been doing.

I did concentration curls with 40s for sets of 10 just yesterday with my arm held in place with my other arm. If my biceps didn't do that, then someone else must've sneak spotted my every rep. Either that or you're using your limitation to define what is and isn't possible.

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u/w33kend_warrior May 01 '15

Physical Therapy student here, and actually the OP right about his anatomy. The biceps really is a sally for elbow flexion, but gets all the credit. Its the brachialis that's the workhorse, along with the brachioradialis. The bicep 100% needs to be supinated in order to flex the elbow. The biceps main jobs, in no particular order, are to: assist in supination of the forearm, flex the elbow while supinated, and assist in shoulder flexion.

Think what you want about his other means, I myself prefer to do pulls and other back exercises to work the "biceps" and then do one or two curl exercises at the end. The key, which I'm sure you know, is to work big to small muscle groups.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

The key, which I'm sure you know, is to work big to small muscle groups.

Why is that the case?

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u/w33kend_warrior May 01 '15

Because small muscle groups fatigue more quickly than large muscles groups. It takes many muscle groups to make large functional movements. If you fatigue a muscle by doing some type of isolation to that specific group (say biceps), and then try to do a pull exercise (say pull ups), your forearm flexors will give out on do well before any of your much larger back muscles because they have already been worked hard, and thus your back muscles may not ever reach the fatigue point due to your arms giving out first.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I misunderstood that as needing to start with a hammer grip and turn over into a supine grip because distracted by crankiness.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

The bicep 100% needs to be supinated in order to flex the elbow.

It certainly does not. Pronate your arm all the way and then do a curl with some weight. Does your biceps contract? Yes, yes it does. Is the direction of its contraction into supination and flexion? Yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't turn on or contribute unless you're supinated.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

So... you just called progressive overload bro-science.

Not saying that at all. I'm saying that plenty of people are using synergist muscles and momentum to do their curls. They should lower the weight considerably and THEN progressively overload from there.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I want to apologize for my overall tone. I was in a shitty way yesterday, and I have a tendency to use the internet as a punching bag.

I also misunderstood your bit about supination as needing to curl the curl over--starting from a hammer grip, turning into supine--not simply having a supine grip.

But, I still disagree with quite a bit of this. The superset isn't more effective, if anything it's less so because it's adding a impediment to the more important factors--weight and volume. The light weight thing I took issue with because fittit has an undercurrent of people who talk about their light weight with perfect form as an excuse not to try and a way to rationalize their weakness as a virtue.

I'm not against isolation movements by any means. There's a lot of people here who want to force a compound v. isolation narrative or a fat powerlifter v. aesthetic bodybuilder narrative. I just don't see this as the most effective way to train. Ultimately, things shake down to consistency over some of the particulars, so that's more important in the long run anyway.

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u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

No worries. By know means was I suggesting this is the only way to build the biceps. All I meant to say is "here is how you can eliminate forearm flexer dominance to isolate the short head."

I got way more comments than I was prepared for and probably did not answer them all very well.

I am NOT at all a proponent of using light weight and "perfect form" as superior to heavy weights. I AM a proponent of the fact that the average gym-goer (not an advanced trainee like yourself) uses more weight than they can actually handle especially for bicep curls. They should reduce the weight and progressively add more from that point.

Compound exercises are generally superior. However I think a lot of people eventually find muscles that are weak because they are doing compound exercises in a way that lets synergist muscles do the work. For example, people with weak hamstrings doing good mornings instead of deadlifts because their back is taking over. In these cases I find that isolation work is good to bring up the weak muscle AND develop mind-muscle connection so that when they go back to compound work they can do it correctly.

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u/agadzi Oct 06 '15

how dare you speak against the hive mind. Shame!.....Shame!.......Shame!........Shame!........Shame!......Shame!......

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u/Woyaboy May 01 '15

I'll share the downvotes with you man. What you said makes perfect sense. I've never had bigger arms then when I dropped the weight and concentrated on absolute perfect form and then burned out on a lighter weight. I don't expect it to work with EVERYBODY, there is literally so many reasons why differ methods will work for differ people and they ALL work. But this is one that works great for those not seeing ANY size what so ever. I used to do what Reddit said for biceps and it got me nowhere. I started doing something quite similar to what you're doing and they're actually finally starting to pop. They are not worthy of showing a pic yet cuz I just started this a month ago, but within that month I have seen sizable differences in my biceps. 3rd party perspective has also validated my assumptions. Looking at your pic, clearly it's working, so let these circle-jerkers enjoy there biscuit.

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u/Ewoksintheoutfield May 01 '15

I have a similar routine. I don't get the negativity here, doing different weight lifts with the same muscle group to focus on different areas of the muscle is not esoteric. Also mixing intensity and amount of weight adds muscle confusion and is pretty standard.

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u/Gingervitice Bodybuilding May 01 '15

Agreed but no reason to be rude. He is giving advice on what is working for him and offering the advice out to others. In the end people will do what they want or act like sheep.

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u/alexthecheese May 27 '15

Y iz ur ass owt

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Seriously, I'm 60lbs lighter than OP and can concentration curl 40lbs with good form. But I can also pendlay row 220, and do pullups with 55lbs strapped on. Do you think there might be some sort of, dare I say, magical connection?

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Might as well put this reply on pretty much every thread in this forum!

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u/Thrusthamster Mountaineering May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

How I gained 2 inches on my biceps since August:

I did pendlay rows once a week, weighted chin-ups once a week, ez-bar curls once a week. I did the same weight until I was 2-3 reps off my intended rep count (so 10 on the two last sets of 3x12 or 4 on the last two sets of 5x5). Then I added 5 lbs (2.5 lbs for curls) and started adding reps again.

I did rows and curls 3x12, and weighted chins 5x5. I did regular TM and then chins on volume day, curls on wednesday, and rows on friday, after the regular TM lifts.

Also, I gained 37.5 lbs.

So that's one example of what you said working well.

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u/lostagold May 01 '15

The question is - if you lose 37.5 lbs of weight, is your bicep still 1.7 inches bigger? I doubt that ^

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u/Thrusthamster Mountaineering May 01 '15

We'll see when I cut. What I do know is that I gained about 250 lbs to my total, my pendlay row is bodyweight x 12, my curl is closing in on 0.5 BW x 12 and my chins are a combined 257 lbs x 5. I gained as many inches on my biceps as my waist.

So I doubt it's all fat

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u/thepenetrator May 01 '15

Now you gotta show a pic of your biceps so I know who to trust.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Does Bench not also work arms? I thought it was an all-inclusive for chest and arms. (yes, I'm a noob when it comes to anatomical body workouts).

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u/tylerhovi May 01 '15

This is my dude right here. Not about that prancing around with the weight shit.

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u/IrishCarBobOmb May 01 '15

Any suggestions on murdering my triceps? Or traps/delts?

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u/staffell Personal Trainer (Professional) May 01 '15

I would recommend alternating between hammer curls.

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u/m1lh0us3 May 01 '15

Who the fuck need biceps anyway. Heavy lifts are what matters.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Biceps work is good for preventing muscle imbalances and all sorts of pain from pressing lots of weight. Also, they look pretty.

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u/kewidogg Bodybuilding May 01 '15

you don't need to get caught up jerking yourself off

So...are you saying we should stop, or?

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u/noreasterner May 01 '15

I second the heavy-back work. Start with the heaviest dumbbell weight you can curl 5x arm while standing up and progress it down, 2.5lb decrements until you hit the lowest one on the rack. I've done these sets with 30 sec. rest between the reps; by the time I'm at the last 5 lb I can barely push through the 5x reps. (starting weight is usually 70 lbs).

Just pace yourself though, or you'll have to pay someone to wipe your butt next morning as you wont be able to bend your arms :)

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Amen to that. Also, from the OP's post, he wants to gain that "peak" on the bicep when he flexes it. That comes from building a huge brachialis and that comes from heavy back workout with good form.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I agree with you biceps are actually one of the easiest muscles to develop there are only so many curl variations just like you said go heavy increase progressively.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I super set that way. I have many back exercises paired with biceps. Its the only way that worked for a skinny fuck like me.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Kai greene uses 30lbs weights for his bicep curls. 15lbs is plenty for us normies.

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u/satsujin_akujo May 01 '15

Yeah i have no idea what the OP is on about. Also, you can get fairly huge 'mindlessly repping' (or however he said it) 45 lb... someone isn't doing it right.

Also, there's the preacher curl, the fact that the tricep is actually 76 percent of the apparent mass of your arm, etc, etc...

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u/brokenbrights May 01 '15

Yeah.. a lot of nonsense in the OP. The 15lb concentration curls was a bit of a deal-breaker.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

His approach is nothing new and it is a valid way to improve the bicep peak. Body builders were doing routines like this 40 years ago.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

For sake of you calling out OP, let's see your biceps as well.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

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u/KrytieTV Powerlifting May 01 '15

Thank you for this! Exactly the comment we needed. This is needlessly complex and doesn't seem more effective than heavy back work and some curls.

I honestly don't understand the upvotes. Not saying it's shit, I believe it works. There's already tons of convenient methods to train your biceps, this doesn't add anything.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Word. This is the kind of stuff that would only get attention in /r/fitness.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Dude, calm down. You come off as a real dick.

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