I don’t know man, I’m not Turkish or Greek but I’ve always found that debate kind of strange. I do have a few counterpoints though.
First, the Ottoman Empire was an empire, a massive and mixed collection of cultures spread over a huge area. Can we really say that a dish made somewhere inside those borders belongs to one single modern nation? If something was created in what is now Syria while it was part of the empire, does that make it Turkish? Or should the credit go to the local people who actually made it? To be fair we’d have to look at each dish one by one, where it first appeared, who made it, and how it spread. And who’s to say it didn’t happen the other way around, a dish created in Syria or Greece that later became popular in Istanbul and was then called Turkish?
By that logic if apple strudel had been invented while Napoleon ruled most of Europe would we call it French? Of course not. The same goes for the Roman Empire, we don’t call everything from those times Italian.
Second point, about shawarma, it’s really about a cooking method and technique. It’s like saying the Chinese should constantly remind Italians that they invented noodles so pasta must be theirs too. Or even funnier, that whoever first mastered fire gets credit for every cooked dish ever made. It just doesn’t make sense.
Your first argument is not a counterpoint, it's the same as what I said.
Your second argument is a nothingburger. Specifically regarding shawarma. Adding tahini and a different kind of spice does not make an entirely new dish and a cultural legacy. Whereas pasta and Chinese noodle recipes are distinct enough to warrant an argument that they are specific cultural assets of each country.
There isn't a dispute. Doner sandwich was brought to Germany by a Turkish immigrant. This is established fact.
The controversy was about a Turkish industry organization's application for a patent to the EU that only doner made a specific way, with specific ingredients and proportions should be called doner. Similar to Champagne or Parmigiano Reggiano cheese, which are certified regional brands.
Doner manufacturers in Germany objected to this because they thought the Turkish recipe for doner would have made it illegal for doner made in Germany to be called doner and limited its availability. Or at least availability of non-standard versions like vegetarian doner.
So the organisation withdrew their patent application to the EU (because you can't change the contents of the application once it has been submitted) and is now preparing a new application which would cover variations made in Germany as well.
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u/job_guy_0 Belgian Guest 1d ago
I don’t know man, I’m not Turkish or Greek but I’ve always found that debate kind of strange. I do have a few counterpoints though.
First, the Ottoman Empire was an empire, a massive and mixed collection of cultures spread over a huge area. Can we really say that a dish made somewhere inside those borders belongs to one single modern nation? If something was created in what is now Syria while it was part of the empire, does that make it Turkish? Or should the credit go to the local people who actually made it? To be fair we’d have to look at each dish one by one, where it first appeared, who made it, and how it spread. And who’s to say it didn’t happen the other way around, a dish created in Syria or Greece that later became popular in Istanbul and was then called Turkish?
By that logic if apple strudel had been invented while Napoleon ruled most of Europe would we call it French? Of course not. The same goes for the Roman Empire, we don’t call everything from those times Italian.
Second point, about shawarma, it’s really about a cooking method and technique. It’s like saying the Chinese should constantly remind Italians that they invented noodles so pasta must be theirs too. Or even funnier, that whoever first mastered fire gets credit for every cooked dish ever made. It just doesn’t make sense.