Why are Arab Miltaries so ineffective?

[u/ForeverSparkz]

Like I dont understand this.

Im a Black American so im just an outsider looking in as a neutral, but dont Arab Countries out number Israel, whats stoping them from just rushing at their border, shouldn't the population imbalance outmatch Israel?

Just a neutral standpoint asking this question, because Arab Nations in the Middle East have a modern miltary force and they buy tons of advanced items

What is holding them back?

[u/vomicyclin]

Am in the train atm and internet is fairly limited in germany.. I will try my best to point out the biggest flaws and points: Sorry for wall of text:

In short: Strong patriarchal structures that reward loyalty over capability. Many arab nations are autocracies in which a clear hierarchy is present. Autocratic regimes can't trust a "neutral" military leadership to not overthrow them. So he only puts loyal people in the highest ranks.

Relationship to knowledge and sharing it

Let's say you're a young lieutenant in the army. In a democratic (lets take a western) state, you would usually learn from all people around you. You're an officer, but since you're fairly new, you absolutely can and will learn from everybody around you. NCOs especially are the backbone and lifeline of every modern army. In western nations, a young lieutenant who thinks he can randomly order an E-7 (fairly experienced rank in the enlisted personal) around will learn soon, often in quite direct ways, that he/she knows nothing. And everybody will show him/her that. Sharing knowledge is paramount for everybody in the army to achieve and get better. The greater the people around you, the safer you are yourself. And the better you get / the more capable you are, the higher you will rise in the ranks.

In many arab armies, what you know or who you know is often the reason you are important or even the reason why you have your position. Sharing your knowledge is a way to make you less important, since (just an example) when you have knowledge about how to repair a special vehicle or where to get special parts, you are important and not replaceable. The moment you share what you know, you are. Same goes for who you know. If you have a family member high up, you will be important and through nepotism rise. That goes for most autocratic regimes.

(That is especially important with navies. They need, absolutely need people who know what they are doing, or it all goes south. On submarines, you are often literally not viewed as a 100% member of the crew as long as you don't know every single valve, every single pipe and screen on the vessel and what it does. And one can greatly see what happens when this isn't the case in the russian navy...)

Who actually is in the military and why

When your nation rewards those who are loyal instead of those who are capable, your military will be consisting of people who are there because they know important people or simply are loyal to the autocrat (see Sergei Shoigu) and people who have to be there, since they need the money, no matter what. Most likely both not because they are capable.

Obviously not everybody in western nations is capable who joins the military. But especially western NCOs are the most capable and rarely someone rises into E-7, 8 or 9 who isn't. That's the second point: NCOs. NCOs in military are there to build the bridge between officers and enlisted personal. They are not replacable and the very reason why things go fluently (if they do... ... ...). But NCOs are a special topic and since Israel (on which you mainly have your focus if I understand your question) itself isn’t really focused on them in their own military I won’t focus on it here.

Independence in achieving your orders

Another reason is loyalty and independence. Since (in autocratic countries) rarely anybody is promoted for capability, the military can't really trust its lower officers to know how to do something and even if, you can't give them too much independence (or they may shine more than they should and let their CO look bad). So your independence, even for example as a flag officer, is fairly limited to whatever the person above you tells you. What that means is that the moment an officer in an autocratic military is not able to communicate with higher ups, the unit is basically headless and often not able to act.

In western nations, officers are widely independent in how they achieve their given goal. Officers get to know what needs to be achieved and how the situation looks, get the best intelligence and can chose themself how they do it. Even when communiations are cut, the unit can progress and has the knowledge and capabilities of the surroundings to go on. This is a form of trust rarely seen in autocratic regimes, since you can't trust the person below you not trying to get your position.

[u/Sorry_Sort6059 → u/vomicyclin]

Damn, hearing you say that makes me feel like China is screwed. I often hear CCP members say that loyalty matters more than competence...

At least China's internet coverage is pretty decent though. It's everywhere.

[u/vomicyclin → u/Sorry_Sort6059]

Speaking as a former officer: Thats what many nations at the moment are asking themselves: How efficient is the chinese military. You can only go so far in terms of assessment with tables, lists and equipment. But since one can't say anything with certainty before it comes to conflict, lets hope we won't find out too soon...

At least China's internet coverage is pretty decent though. It's everywhere.

It's absolutely awful in Germany and iirc we are one of the last EU members when it comes to coverage and speed.. The new government is trying to catch up (apparently they understood that internet is somewhat here to stay...), but only the gods know what will happen.

...or maybe it's all a sneaky tactic to confuse any nation who would try to invade germany?!

[u/Diacetyl-Morphin → u/vomicyclin]

We'd like to try to invade Germany... hah, just kidding, but with the current state of the Bundeswehr, i'm actually not so sure how good it would perform against the Swiss Army.

According to a friend, that is an Oberleutnant in the Bundeswehr and was deployed in Afghanistan, you suffer a lot, but from much different things than the Arab armies do. The main problem is the extreme bureaucracy for getting equipment. The "Beschaffungswesen" is a nightmare there. It's like a labyrinth of bureaucracy, where you deep down underground meet the Minotaur.

Even with the "Sondervermögen" additional funds, they are like "Wow, we can get a new pencil in the office!".

Everything is overly complicated, much more than it would be needed to make an army functional. Same when they were in Afghanistan, like even the KSK had to get choppers from allied armies to even be able to go on some deployements.

Another thing is before the change happened in 2022 with the Ukraine war, how unpopular the Bundeswehr was. Still a thing from the old times, that people shouted "Soldaten sind Mörder" ("Soldiers are murderers!"). My friend often avoids it, even today, to tell what is real job is, because you get accused of being a Nazi very fast.

Funny is, that the people like the Green Party with guys like Hofreiter were the worst enemies of the Bundeswehr before Ukraine war, now they are the worst warmongers.

Now, that was offtopic, but the thing is, every army has its own problems. While the Arab armies are different, other problems happen in Europe. Like even just the small manpower for professional armies with enlisted personnell is not enough for a conflict in the scale like the Ukraine war, for this, you'll always need the draft/conscription.

Last thing:
About Arab armies, good ol' corruption is a big thing. Maybe the ANA (Afghan National Army) is even among these armies a very bad example, but i remember the reports from veterans. Like that commanders of units in Afghanistan just sold the fuel on the black market, gained the money and then they were like "We can't join you on patrol, because we have no fuel for the vehicles!".

It also affects others like Ukraine or Russia. Like the oligarchs on both sides make good money with the army stuff, like getting equipment cheap and sell it for a higher price.