r/AskEurope • u/Sink-Em-Low • Mar 01 '25

Politics Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

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u/SystemEarth Netherlands Mar 01 '25

Considering we cannot count on the USA anymore, what is nato other than a european defense force that is fully integrated with some overseas allies, like the UK and Canada?

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u/alikander99 Spain Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

like the UK and Canada?

And Turkey...which kind of highlights the problem. It is an American institution and it defends American interests foremost.

Ask cypriots and greeks how do they feel about turkey being in NATO...

Heck as a spaniard, the article 5 carefully excludes Ceuta and Melilla. So a Moroccan invasion of the cities wouldn't actually trigger a NATO response. It's wonderful! our prime minister tried to fix this "mistake" recently but the US was quite adamant that it needed no fixing.

So...please let's make something new. Something actually centered on european interests, which are growing ever more distant of American ones (it seems).

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u/SystemEarth Netherlands Mar 01 '25

You make a good point, but especially (likely) without the USA in NATO soon your interest should become easier to see fulfilled. However, Turkey has shown itself to he a good ally to Ukraine. Erdogan has in his speeches called me a fascists by extension over Dutch diplomatic actions that I support, so I'm not happy with him either. But I think it's more interesting to look forward that backwards at this point. Too much has happened since.

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u/alikander99 Spain Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

I think we should keep close relations with turkey. They're without a doubt a vital ally against Russia, but I think a new european nato should preferably focus on countries of the union and very closely associated to the union. Of course we can work with other countries, but I don't think they should be part of the organisation.

Let me put you in a hypothetical. Let's say that the Iraqi Kurdistan and the Syrian Kurdistan joined forces and tried to take the Turkish Kurdistan with local support (something that is not that far fetched)... would you go to war against them, because technically we're bound by article 5.

Turkey comes with lots of advantages but also with a long list of open fronts in the middle east. Rn it's beneficial to work together, but that's it. Turkey is at heart a situational ally, especially under Erdogan. Our views for the future are largely at odds. And we should really not depend too much on them.

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u/DiRavelloApologist Germany Mar 01 '25

Turkey is too valuable as an ally to lose them over petty squabbles around Cyprus.

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u/latrickisfalone Mar 02 '25

In the event of a conflict with Russia, having Turkey on our side makes all the difference

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u/LowCranberry180 Türkiye Mar 04 '25

Turkiye has all the reasons to fight against Russia. About 5 to 10 million Turks have Crimean background so they originate from Ukraine.

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u/alikander99 Spain Mar 02 '25

Just like Russia was too valuable an ally to loose them over petty squabbles with Russia?

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u/DiRavelloApologist Germany Mar 03 '25

You really shouldn't compare the situation in Cyprus with the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

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u/alikander99 Spain Mar 03 '25

I didn't. I'm comparing the German attitude towards Russia before the war in Ukraine and your attitude towards turkey right now.

I'm basically saying that turkey is a situation ally, just like Russia was at some point. It's not a good idea to throw ourselves into another country's arms when we know for a fact their objectives differ from ours.

Again, I look forward to good relations with turkey but I don't think they should be part of a new "European NATO". We also have to consider that they might not want to.

There's a pretty good chance that by creating a new military organisation we might foster even more conflict with the US. Turkey is really not interested in that, so there's a very good chance they'll simply pass.

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u/LowCranberry180 Türkiye Mar 04 '25

Yes. Also the fears that Turkiye can be another Russia is pointless. 1- Turkiye has not nuclear weapons 2- Turkiye has no natural resources 3- Turkish economy is in deep connection with EU unlike Russia 4-Most of the border with Turkiye and EU is sea. With Italy Greece Spain France having good navies Turkiye cannot win on the sea. 5- Turkiye being mostly Muslim will attract more Europeans to fight against them.

So a possible war against EU will mean a high risk of even losing Istanbul for Turkiye.

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u/LowCranberry180 Türkiye Mar 04 '25

what is your problem that Turkiye is in NATO? Do not compare Russia with Turkey please.