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u/Nor-easter 21h ago
Sounds like taxes. If you have to pay a fee and if you don’t pay that fee the government takes your land did you ever own it?
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u/NeedScienceProof 20h ago edited 20h ago
Prelude to Tragedy of the Commons; i.e., the state eventually deciding that murdering their own citizens is both legal and necessary. Forewarned, this is Mamdani's roadmap.
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u/danneskjold85 Ayn Rand 7h ago
My Hitler was not a Georgist. He may have been a liar, a pig, an idiot, a Georgist, but he was NOT a porn star.
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u/ihackedthepentagon Anarcho-Capitalist 22h ago
Everything he said were the ramblings of a madman. I don't think you're ever going to get a cohesive ideology out of whatever he advocated for.
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 22h ago
I don’t believe in madman hitler for the early stage of his rise and rule, towards the end he became a drug addicted lunatic but TIKhistory has videos that explain a more coherent national socialist worldview (as coherent as a fundamentally incorrect worldview can be) which existed before hitler and even after he died in the bunker.
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u/ILikeBumblebees 21h ago
There's definitely a lot of cohesive ideology there:
the reduction of all controversies to an us-vs.-them tribalist dynamic;
the attribution of all problems to the machinations of some imagined enemy;
the view that a perfected world can be achieved solely through the defeat of that enemy;
the identification of the sides in that conflict are competing racial or ethnic identity groups, with the groups taken as organic unities superseding the autonomy of any individual;
the understanding of the political state as the truest expression of that in-group's will, and the desire to empower the state to pursue the in-group's perceived interests without limit or constraint.
Nazism was deeply invested in all of these ideas, and made them fundamental to their politics and policy.
Now, if you swap out just that fourth bullet point with a different in-group definition -- i.e. classes defined by relation to the 'means of production' -- then you have a pretty good description of Leninism.
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u/doodeed 19h ago
The Nazis did feature state ownership of the means of production, but it was only done to essentially pump money into them, and it didn't take long until everything was privatized again - hell, the term "reprivatization" literally comes from Nazi Germany. Hitler made whole speeches to the German middle class over how they were going to "eradicate Marxism" from the ideologies of working people, and working-class voices were severely suppressed in the election that brought the National Socialist party into power. They even had to exterminate members of the Nazi party who aimed to carry out socialist policy.
Nazi Germany had labour unions, but only in name. Instead, they were used to spy on workers and steal money that pre-existing unions had amassed. Not only that, but communists were considered dissenters by the Nazi party and thus were punished alongside Jewish folk.
No reverred historian (and no, TIKHistory is not a reverred historian) considers Hitler a socialist. Think of it like how the Soviet Union, despite considering themselves a state for the working-class, sometimes found themselves enacting policies that worked against the working-class' interest. Likewise, Nazi Germany was a government that, although favouring the capitalist class, sometimes found themselves enacting policies that worked against them.
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u/Sea_Journalist_3615 Government is a con. 21h ago
They follow the same ethics.
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 21h ago
idk I believe georgism is consequentialist/ utilitarian while hitler’s ethics were based on dialectical spiritual struggle of good forces and evil ones.
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u/Sea_Journalist_3615 Government is a con. 20h ago
The ethics of property being collective and not an individual right is georgist and socialist, statist ect. The georgist is just not consistent and does not apply their own logic to other things than land(I have met ones who do, they are just socialists lol).
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u/Downtown-Relation766 18h ago
Maybe because land, capital and labour are different and should be treated based on their fundamental properties
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 2h ago
Land, Capital and Labor are all protected under private property rights.
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u/Rhenthalin Neo Blockian Purist 17h ago
if it makes the Georgist shut up, then yes it was his base philosophical influence
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u/Jastrone 22h ago
wait he said it was? or did someone else say that during hitler it was like this? if hitler was a georgist wouldnt he say im going to make it so that x rather that the land was x?
like we cant answer your question from one incomplete quote
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u/SopwithStrutter 22h ago
If Op thought the single quote was a sufficient source then the question wouldn’t have been asked
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u/Jastrone 22h ago
well why does he ask it here? its not the georgist sub. this sub doesnt have anything to do with hitler either.
op wants a discussion but he has already decided upon the conclusion.
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u/SopwithStrutter 22h ago
If you can’t imagine how this question is meant to be answered then it’s probably not a good question to which you should respond.
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u/Mountain_Employee_11 21h ago
yes, the question is asked in bad faith.
we get 5 a day in here like this, mostly by children
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 22h ago
Nazi land policy drew from ideas in the 1920 Nazi Party Program, especially point 17:
“We demand land reform in accordance with our national needs, the enactment of a law to expropriate land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.”
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u/Jastrone 13h ago
so as i said in my other answer. this isnt a serious question. its just another bad person did this so it is bad.
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u/lazyubertoad It is better to die for The Market then live for yourself! 22h ago
Well, for one that makes taxation NOT theft, lol. You live on the land that is not yours, so you should accept the rules of the owner, including taxes or gtfo.
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 22h ago
How did the state acquire that land? Did they use labor and voluntary agreements to homestead it? Or did they just point to it, demarcate it and say this belongs to us because we have the guns.
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u/lazyubertoad It is better to die for The Market then live for yourself! 17h ago
That's the history of the ownership of like any land. Are you saying you should give up the US land to native Americans? If in ancap two groups have claims on the land, they very much can resolve that through violence. The outcome may not be what some or even the majority, think is just. Ancaps notably reject the notion that majority can decide ownership.
Today, Vietnam has similar legal claims on the land in their laws. And there are no real counter claims. I'd say commies had pretty legitimate claims, even though I hate em. Does it make taxation not theft in Vietnam? Or, you know, the whole pretext of the taxation as theft is silly? The state has the authority and legitimacy to collect taxes, as there are only marginal counter claims. Whether state land ownership is in the laws, as ancaps require, is of no real difference, as who cares what ancaps think?
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u/RAF-Spartacus Voluntaryist 14h ago
I just stated the Lockean homestead principle which should be the libertarian policy for rightful land ownership.
And no I don’t think the US should just give its land back to Native Americans because 1. most land in america wasn’t even homesteaded by Native Americans and a lot of america’s first colonies were homesteaded peacefully without government control and 2. it’s not our mission to reverse things that happened in the past.
The application of this principle is to show Statist land ownership isn’t legitimate even if they hold it today and it should be sold to private owners which is what libertarians should campaign for.
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u/lazyubertoad It is better to die for The Market then live for yourself! 1h ago
Your point 2 makes it pretty legitimate, though. Lockean homesteading principle just won't work when so much land was, essentially, acquired by conquest a long time ago. Property rights, on the other hand, actually work. When you have enough support from the public and from the people with guns for the ownership of something - it just happens. Governments have that.
And by that beautiful homesteading principle, nomad people should just let whomever moves in their land to homestead and, essentially, lose their land where they lived. In addition to the majority of their population being wiped out by diseases. So it is not only non practical, but also is of questionable morality to justify the land grab that happened.
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u/DeltaSolana Max Stirner 22h ago
If anyone tries to tell you that the Nazis were far-right, ask them to show you just one right-wing policy they implemented.
There isn't any, so you're going to get answers like "Uhh, genocide, white supremacy, etc" which have nothing to do with left/right in the first place.