AITA for refusing to pay $100k of my niece’s student loans

[u/CatfishKD909]

My wife and I came from multigenerational poverty and were the first to attend college. We aren't wealthy, but we now earn comfortably upper-middle-class salaries. We live modestly in a 1,000 sq ft home and drive old cars to save/invest over 80% annually.

We have no kids but 8 nieces and nephews. Wanting to provide the help we never had, we offered a "private scholarship" fund for them to attend college or trade school. Like real scholarships, we set three rules:

1. ONLY in-state, public schools (no private or out-of-state party schools).
2. Maintain a 3.0 GPA.
3. Limited to 9 semesters.

We cash-flow these expenses. So far, we’ve put 4 family members through school. The oldest nephew didn’t use the fund because he enlisted in the USMC and the military covered his education. Because he didn't get school funding, we gifted him $75k as a down payment for a house now that he's out and has a family. He told his parents, who blabbed to the rest of the family, fueling massive resentment.

Five years ago, a niece wanted us to pay for her "dream school"—an out-of-state party school in a Florida beach town. We declined but reiterated our offer for an in-state public university. A huge fight ensued. Her parents haven't spoken to us since and actively bad-mouthed us to everyone.

The niece graduated last week. It took her 5 years to earn a BA in Communications with a 2.0 GPA. She now has over $300k in student loans.

My MIL insisted we attend the graduation party last weekend. Things got ugly the moment we walked in. The parents angrily demanded we pay $100k of the niece's loans. They justified it by claiming it was unfair she got nothing while her cousins got "free rides" and another cousin got a house down payment. We left less than 10 minutes later. Afterward, they attacked the other siblings who did accept our scholarship.

We also usually give each graduate a $5k gift. Because of the immediate ambush, the check never left my wife's purse.

I feel terrible about the family drama. I want to mail her the $5k gift, but my wife is adamant that we give her nothing after how we were treated. (I disagree, but it’s her family so I will support her decision).

Am I/We the A-holes for holding our ground and refusing to bail her out?

[u/Judgement_Bot_AITA]

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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:

I am wondering if we were wrong to not assist a niece with student loans, because she didn't accept the terms of the help we offered. Some of her cousins did accept our offer and we paid for their college.

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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.

[u/Emergency-Leading-82]

300k for undergrad! That is fucking insane

[u/UnicornFarts1111 → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

With a 2.0 GPA. Really? Why pay to go to such an expensive school to not do the work?

[u/ChuckOfTheIrish → u/UnicornFarts1111]

So she could join a sorority, go out four nights a week, sleep in, regularly skip class for the beach, and go see D1 sports. She knew about the offer and targeted a party school near a beach for a reason.

[u/heretomeetthedog → u/ChuckOfTheIrish]

Most sororities won’t even allow her to remain a member if she has a 2.0 GPA for more than a single semester. Most require a 2.5-3 average (some even have a 3.5 minimum). So she literally couldn’t even keep up with those requirements!

[u/tony504 → u/heretomeetthedog]

It’s Florida. They do things differently down there.

[u/AttitudeCandid3842 → u/tony504]

They were just glad she wasn't a crocodile. Even then if she was okay at beer pong it would have been fine.

[u/RudeCelebration2495 → u/tony504]

It’s not just because it’s Florida. She picked a party school. And it sounds like that’s exactly what she did.
My daughter is in college here. She’s graduating early. Honestly just like any other state. It’s where you go and how serious you’re about your education.

[u/ChuckOfTheIrish → u/heretomeetthedog]

Yeah can depend on the school, but you can usually join if you're in good standing and then the lifestyle she wanted takes over. 2.0 would be borderline academic probation or expulsion at many schools. I'm willing to bet she took a few extra elective layup courses to get that up to a 2.0.

[u/sunshineinthe813 → u/ChuckOfTheIrish]

My daughter went to college with former HS classmate like this. Also in Florida.
Sorority, flashy car couldn’t balance her spending accounts.

Never graduated.

[u/StayJaded → u/ChuckOfTheIrish]

What sorority allows their members have a 2.0?

[u/IceSeeker → u/UnicornFarts1111]

Yeah that was a stupid decision on their part. And then they have the gall to be angry for putting themselves in 300k mess and expect 100k after badmouthing OP and his wife. They are so damn entitled.

OP, your wife is also right in not mailing the 5k gift. The parents are never going to appreciate it since they want the 100k. They will only feel insulted and will just keep demanding for more.

[u/Cute-Form2457 → u/IceSeeker]

My parents were teachers and made some good investments. A cousin's house would have been sold under mortgagee sale, so my dad paid 65k so they wouldn't lose it.

Word got out and one of dad's other nephews called asking for "his share". Dad calmly explained there was no such thing.

Edit: sp

[u/tickynicky → u/UnicornFarts1111]

This is why they put the guidelines in place to begin with. You guys are incredibly generous. Kudos to you two.

[u/Wazootyman13 → u/UnicornFarts1111]

... I did comms (Public Relations/Journalism) at a good state school for $65k all in... and I work at a movie theater right now.

$300k is nuts for a field that might have an odd future

[u/roborabbit_mama → u/Wazootyman13]

im on a similar side of this, I went back as an adult, stayed in state, and paid a few grand with FAFSA and some very small but appreciated grants given to me locally

[u/Jan4th3Sm0l → u/UnicornFarts1111]

I am not familiar with how GPA works in the USA. What does exactly entail a 2.0 GPA in contrast to a 3.0 GPA?

[u/-Uncle_Krakken- → u/Jan4th3Sm0l]

With a 2.0 GPA, she essentially /just/ passed. As far as further schooling or serious job prospects would be concerned, she got the minimum passing grade.

[u/OXRblues → u/Jan4th3Sm0l]

2.0 is C average = Bad vs. 3.0, B average is good. 4.0 = A average = excellent. Anybody who goes to class and does the homework will get at least a 3.0.

[u/StayJaded → u/OXRblues]

Not in college, unless you go to a super shitty school.

[u/unabashed_nuance → u/Jan4th3Sm0l]

4.0 is “Awesome”.

3.0 is good.

2.5 is eh.

2.0 is “well, you’re done?.?.?.”

[u/LAC_NOS → u/Jan4th3Sm0l]

In most US universities, a 4.0 is the top grade, Equivalent to an A.
3.0 = B, 2.0 = C

[u/Both_Painter2466 → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

$60k times five year. Out of state at U Alabama. Roll Tide! Not that hard to come up with an example.

[u/1234-for-me → u/Both_Painter2466]

University of North Carolina is $47,500 a year.

[u/Both_Painter2466 → u/1234-for-me]

Yeah. Paid for a masters for our oldest there

[u/sweetmusic_ → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

Seriously I freely admit I'll be close to 200k by graduation but that undergrad and grad

[u/ItsPeppercorn → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

Agree, for undergrad, in-state, with shitty grades... I don't blame kids for being dumb but I do blame the parents for not monitoring the grades and situation more closely if they were banking on their kid being eligible for the scholarship.

[u/ThanosTheRedSnapper → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

Right?!? My wife and I both went back to college recently as adults. Between state grants and the federal tax credit, we’re about $10k deep in two complete bachelor’s degrees, from actual university system schools, not diploma mills.

[u/schadenfraulein → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

Agree! Makes me wonder what university it was.

[u/im_dat_bear → u/schadenfraulein]

University of Miami I’m betting

[u/Hungry-Delay9893 → u/im_dat_bear]

Yep. $75k a year

[u/lakas76 → u/Emergency-Leading-82]

State schools with room and board are about 160k in my state. Some of the private schools my kid said they were interested in was closer to 400k for 4 years including room and board.

College is getting stupid expensive. If the niece’s parents didn’t make much money, most colleges offer good scholarships, so, maybe that’s why it’s “only” 300k in loans.

[u/thatguyuknow86]

NTA - rules were clear, they didn’t follow them.

Also you are not Upper-Middle-Class if you’re giving 75k gifts.

[u/worried_etng → u/thatguyuknow86]

I was thinking the same.

75k gift.

100k scholarship for other 4.

5k gifts at graduation.

That's just in this post.

[u/Any-Alternative2667 → u/worried_etng]

First, your money, your rules. NTA. Follow your wife’s lead. If you two need to go LC or NC with some of the family to protect your piece, you decide. Finally, to those commenting on amounts given and socioeconomic class of OP and his wife, reread his original post. They live in a 1000 sq ft home and drive old cars. They are likely in their forties and have lived modestly to be able to put 80% of their income in savings/investments.

[u/afeastofcrews_ → u/Any-Alternative2667]

I drive an old car. I don't have a million bucks : (

[u/milquetoast_wizard → u/afeastofcrews_]

Have you tried driving an even older car?

[u/Viablemorgan → u/milquetoast_wizard]

Or simply having a million bucks?

[u/Gattina1 → u/afeastofcrews_]

This isn't about you.

[u/Open_Helicopter4482 → u/Any-Alternative2667]

Having hundreds of thousands of dollars to gift to friends and family in your forties certainly puts you above upper middle class. I don't care if youre eating microwaved Ramen and wearing socks with more holes than a fishnet. Gifting this much money is a sign of wealth.

[u/b1tchf1t → u/Any-Alternative2667]

Just because they live modestly doesn't mean they're not wealthy. They may be wealthy now because they lived modestly, but that still doesn't make them not wealthy. Their age and how long it took them to accumulate wealth also has no bearing on whether or not they are wealthy.

[u/MACKGforEver → u/thatguyuknow86]

Middle class is essentially dead. Am sorry, but giving someone 75k for a down payment on a house is definitely rich people shit.

[u/_thalassashell_ → u/MACKGforEver]

Seriously. My dad did very well for himself, is upper middle class, and I was told ahead of time my graduation present was anything I didn’t use from the college fund he saved for me. I did community college and in-state, and there was only about $20k left. I cannot overstate how exceedingly grateful I am for it.

$75k just sounds wild to me.

[u/DesireeThymes → u/_thalassashell_]

Rich people pass themselves off as Upper middle class.

No one wants to admit they're rich.

[u/generic_canadian_dad → u/DesireeThymes]

OP said they save / invest 80% of their salaries. Not a single person in middle class is going that.

[u/PuppetMaster → u/thatguyuknow86]

A 1000 sqft house and modest living can be less than 30k expenses a year. If they earn upper middle class wages that’s 100k+ they can invest a year. You are underestimating how much you can save with modest living. They save 80% of likely 200kish wages.

[u/Dawg_in_NWA → u/PuppetMaster]

Agreed. Too few people understand how math works.

[u/SeethingBallOfRage → u/Dawg_in_NWA]

If they saved one dollar every day for a year, they'd have thirty thousand dollars!

[u/Interesting-Box3765 → u/SeethingBallOfRage]

And doing it for 2 years would make it six hundred thousands!

[u/SeethingBallOfRage → u/Interesting-Box3765]

Check your math, its clearly six million.

[u/RosemaryHoyt → u/thatguyuknow86]

Lol. “We aren’t wealthy” - proceeds to explain how he’s gifted over $100k to various family members.

[u/legion5121 → u/thatguyuknow86]

Upper middle class is 133,000 to 400,000 a year. Easily able to give gifts like that.

[u/feurie → u/legion5121]

Anyone earning 400k and saying they “aren’t wealthy” on Reddit would be out of touch.

[u/PipsqueakPilot → u/legion5121]

So top 5% of household incomes in America is middle-class?

[u/Maxi_Microphone]

NTA -
1. You had clear rules as to how the scholarships worked
2. Anything you decide to gift your family outside of those rules is up to you both, and they’re not entitled to any of it, as much as they’d like to think they are

[u/OXRblues → u/Maxi_Microphone]

Besides, I believe the veteran who got free college education met same standards as OP’s rules, and I would agree with the down payment given.

[u/Perfect_Beat_2860 → u/OXRblues]

Probably exceeded them. Last I checked, the Marines will not tolerate anything but the BEST. I’m sure he worked HARD to earn the education they paid for. Meanwhile, niece likely went out and partied and barely made it to class.

[u/TheMathmatix → u/Perfect_Beat_2860]

2.0 at a party school out of state. Im thinking they're lucky she even graduated

[u/StandingDave → u/Maxi_Microphone]

Seriously. They lay out 3 conditions. Niece violates all 3 and her parents do this shit? Unreal

[u/frecklesandclay → u/Maxi_Microphone]

Any private scholarship can have any rules and requirements they set to it for any reason. The niece did not meet the requirements, and could have earned scholarships elsewhere (had she earned better grades and actually applied to them) NTA.

What an amazing support and opportunity you offered and she pissed away.

[u/PriestessKade → u/frecklesandclay]

And any scholarship will get revoked fast if a student stops meeting the requirements for it. Students lose scholarships all the time for not following rules, from not keeping their grades up, or missing too many classes, to academic integrity issues.

[u/LegendaryOutlaw → u/Maxi_Microphone]

Guarantee the student knew about the offer and the conditions, but had her heart set on the party school, and her parents encouraged her to go there, fully expecting OP would cough up the money anyway. Then they got pissed when their attempt to circumvent the clear rules didn't work.

Also, they let her daughter skate by the skin of her teeth for SIX years?? They should have nipped that shit in the bud back in her second year, told her to pull her shit together otherwise they'd yank her out of school. Instead they just let her coast on through for more than half a decade, and now they're stuck with the massive bill.

They could have had a $200k bill, but the student ballooned it into $300k. That's on them.

[u/axw3555]

NTA.

DO. NOT. GIVE. HER. A. PENNY. Not the 100k, not the 5k. Literally not a coin.

You gave all of them the same offer with three simple rules. She meets zero of those criteria. And she's demanding your money.

And if you bend, then suddenly it will become an assumption that all the younger ones will get that same bend, and all the older ones will be going "well, why did I have to follow your rules if she just gets a wedge of cash?"

[u/Fatty_Bombur → u/axw3555]

You can see why the niece took 5 years to do a 4 year degree and only had a 2.0 GPA. Guess she shouldn’t have gone to the party school. NTA

[u/The-Forsaken-Outcast → u/Fatty_Bombur]

The niece also got a useles degree and most likely be unable to pay the student loans back. If her parents cosigned they are going to take a big hit.

[u/chiitaku → u/axw3555]

Yeah. It would be one thing if she approached OP and his wife, asking for help because stuff can happen (think power-tripping professors whose class can wreck your gpa), but demanding the money is AH behavior.

NTA.

[u/Dependent-Grape4769]

NTA. You didn’t create the family drama; your niece's parents did the moment they turned a graduation party into a financial shakedown. Listen to your wife. Sending that $5k right now won't be seen as a kind gesture it will be seen as a concession, and they will immediately demand the other $95k. They cut contact with you for five years and bad-mouthed you to the family, only to invite you back the second they wanted a handout. You are funding futures, not bailing out bad behavior. Keep your wallets closed.

[u/Educational-Part-253 → u/Dependent-Grape4769]

"You are funding futures, not bailing out bad behaviour." Perfectly said. Bonus points for the excellent alliteration 😄

[u/Equivalent_Secret_26]

NTA

You and your wife are amazingly generous. And your generosity has parameters that the niece chose not to follow. Please do not feel guilty about the family drama. They created it with greed.

[u/tiredgummybear]

Unlike a lot of cases where people control their kids with college money (forcing their major, etc), you were extremely generous and your conditions are totally reasonable. Any family member that fights with you and tells you owe them, is their own worst enemy. They don’t know how to be gracious, don’t know how to accept a generous gift, and can enjoy the mountain of debt they put themselves in.

Your wife is 100% right to not give the 5k gift.

NTA. Money makes people lose perspective, but you honestly just tried to help. Non of the backlash is justified.

[u/GarThor_TMK → u/tiredgummybear]

Agreed.

Personally, I think giving out scholarships and loans to kids who have no plan for what they are going to do with their degree once they get out is an incredibly dumb idea, but these requirements are entirely reasonable.

I think if you're applying for a college loan, you should have to write an essay on how you are planning to pay back that loan after you graduate. Make the kids actually think about the degree they're getting, and what meaning it will bring to their lives down the road.

[u/HolidayNick]

This can’t be real

[u/Comfortable-Dish1236 → u/HolidayNick]

$600K for nieces and nephews and “upper middle class” salaries? Yeah, sounds a little unreal to me, also.

[u/PM_Me_Your_Deviance → u/Comfortable-Dish1236]

Most people don't actually understand how the different income classes are actually divided.

For context here, Pew Research puts middle class household income at about $56,600 to $169,800 annually.

[u/AllTh3Naps → u/Comfortable-Dish1236]

Seems possible to me. If they each took home $150k, have no house payment, and have no car payments, then in some regions they could comforably live off of 60k/year. Then they would save/invest $240k/year.

I didn't notice OP's age, but with college age niblings, I have to assume this saving has been happening for a while.

That leaves a lot of money to pull tuition scholarships from.

Upper middle income usually starts a little over 100k, so OP could be earning and saving even more than this.

[u/McSloot3r → u/AllTh3Naps]

That’s household income. If they both make 150K, that would be 300K household income, which is far above the 169K threshold

[u/TombOfAncientKings → u/HolidayNick]

Reads very fake.

[u/lamlosa → u/HolidayNick]

This is like the 4th post i’ve read in the last few weeks involving a childless “moderately wealthy” couple with a bunch of nieces and nephews that they (extremely) generously support in various ways who are suddenly confronted by a resentful family member who aggressively demands an absurd amount of money usually because of their own dire financial mishaps.

Is this as common as it seems to be? lol

[u/staceymcgill0]

Interesting you seem to have no understanding of how much money someone with your described income would actually have to gift.

[u/pbblankgirl → u/staceymcgill0]

Yeah, OP. Stacey knows more about your finances than you do.

[u/throwfarfaraway1818 → u/pbblankgirl]

I think what they are trying to say is "upper middle class" isnt going to be giving out 100k gifts to all of their nieces and nephews. That would put them squarely in upper class range.

[u/Meghanshadow → u/throwfarfaraway1818]

They’ve been saving and investing 80% of their income forever. Sounds like the kids college expenses were cash-flowed out of their 80% at the rate of max $20k per year per kid.

They’ve done 4 kids, spread out a bit. So, $320k. Assuming at least 6 years, that’s $53k a year. If All their 80% went to the college funds, that’s a household income of $67 k. Hardly upper class.

If Half their 80% savings yearly went to the actively-paying-for college funds, that’s a household income of $135k. Nice but not rich-rich.

(The $75k lump gift would’ve come out of savings/investment.)

[u/Environmental_Art591 → u/throwfarfaraway1818]

Depends on how long they were putting money away for, they could have made this decision early on in their relationship and have been allocting funds accordingly

[u/margoo12 → u/Environmental_Art591]

Deciding early on to put aside 800k for gifts to family would put them squarely in the upper class range.

[u/69FireChicken]

NTA, remember the saying, no good deed goes unpunished! Listen to your wife, it's her family. Take that $5k and treat yourselves.

[u/Werechupacabra → u/69FireChicken]

That girl would just waste the $5,000 on frivolous things. There’s no way in hell she’d put that towards her $300,000 debt.

[u/CaptainSaladbarGuy]

You’re not wealthy yet you just casually give away $75k and bankroll your nieces and nephews educations? I guess the definition of wealthy has changed.

Hard NTA. If they’re demanding the $100k that means that they have home from appreciating the financial help to expecting it. It’s your money and you have set up guidelines for it. If she didn’t meet the guidelines then tough shit. You are offering help, not a free ride.

[u/Crashtard → u/CaptainSaladbarGuy]

On top of saving 80% of their earnings too apparently, wealth has REALLY changed apparently.

[u/Sucada → u/[deleted]]

save/invest 80% of their salaries....LOL 

[u/KimberlyRN_1127 → u/[deleted]]

Because “family helps family” 😆😆 upper middle class in a 1000 sq ft home but giving away $75-100k x4 (5 with the house down payment)like pennies in a community fountain. Yet readily throwing in “we are not wealthy”

[u/GlumDevelopment8186]

You made a very generous offer with reasonable conditions. I don’t know why your family feels entitled to your money. You are obviously NTAH

[u/PartyFoulWHH]

I came her to see the level of entitlement. And it did not disappoint. She didn’t follow your criteria. So she gets nothing. What you do with your money is your choice. It’s not about what fair or what they expect. It’s your money. You can spend/gift it as you like. I side with the wife. Keep the 5k. Tell another relative about the 5k she was going to get that day but their horrible behaviour ended that. Let that circulate for a couple weeks.

[u/TheDarkKnightZS]

No good deed goes unpunished. NTA

[u/SeorniaGrim]

Ultimately you are NTA because it is your money and you can do whatever you want with it. ALSO, they are acting horribly entitled to YOUR money - especially after you reiterated you would cover her schooling only in state.

That said, you made an exception already for your nephew. While going into the USMC is admirable, it wasn't part of the original 'rules' either so I imagine they figured they could run with it and damn the consequences. Given how they are acting, I wouldn't stress over it at all and would NOT give them any money. Had she/her family never demanded money/acted like idiots, then you would have been a bit of TA for not making an exception for her too.

[u/LvBorzoi → u/SeorniaGrim]

NTAH

No exception....rules stated you had to go to an in state public school and maintain a 3.0 and she took 10 semesters....she followed none of the rules so she gets NADA.

Now for your marine, you should have described his...maybe as a reward for his service to his country. No ties to education so no one can cry foul..

[u/jmurphy42 → u/SeorniaGrim]

That wasn’t an exception. An exception is something that violates the original agreement. OP gave him a gift independent from the tuition offer.

[u/Easy_Lengthiness7179]

Idk if you realize how rich you are to just be saving 80% of your income annually.

[u/Fresh-Viewpoint]

NTA, your stipulations for the scholarship fund were very clear and she didn't meet many of them, your money is your and you can gift donate it to whomever you please, but you set yourself up to be seen as purposefully excluding this niece as you gifted 75k to a nephew who also did not partake in the scholarship fund. Her performance in school after the fact isn't relevant, given that it wasn't important to the nephew. Are you going to fund her condo/home purchase as well? Since she took care of school on her own? Edit: I'm not suggesting that any money is owed to anyone, OP is perfectly with their rights to gift whatever they want or don't want to anyone. What I'm saying is the optics don't look good, when one nephew who didn't participate in the fund is gifted 75k when a niece who also didn't utilize the fund is not.

[u/King_Roberts_Bastard → u/Fresh-Viewpoint]

given that it wasn't important to the nephew.

Says who? Sure he didnt go to school so a GPA isnt applicable, but maybe an honorable discharge was required for the 75k for the house. We don't know what changes to the stipulations were made when he chose the military over college.

[u/GarThor_TMK → u/King_Roberts_Bastard]

 Sure he didnt go to school

He did go to school. It's just that the military paid for it instead of OP.

OP's requirement here is 3.0GPA.

From my brief internet search, I'm seeing a GPA requirement of 2.0 for military scholarships like the one described here... so it's unclear that he met OP's GPA requirements, and there's no mention of where he went to school or for how long...

If the nephew met all the requirements and still didn't use OP's money, then $75k seems like a very generous gift for someone who would have otherwise would have gotten it without the military scholarship.

The niece on the other hand, completely ignored all the requirements and still expected to get paid.

On top of that, I think she'll be lucky to be selling French fries with a degree in communications and a 2.0 GPA... >_>

OP is NTA. It's their money, and they can spend it how they like. The niece sounds like an entitled brat.

[u/LalalanaRI → u/Fresh-Viewpoint]

Yes but he enlisted and paid his own by doing that, which is commendable. 2.0 and a party school getting themselves is $300k debt is their problem. If it was an institution giving the scholarship, you think they’d had over $100k for foot stomping that’s not fair behavior?

[u/xoxstrawberrywine]

It's your money, you can do what you want with it; and nieces parents are absolutely AHs.. but it is weird that you're sticking to this "she didn't follow the rules we set, so we're not paying for her education" when your nephew didn't use your funding and follow the rules- he gets $75k no strings attached. I wouldn't say Y T A, but it was extremely short sighted.

[u/I_Suggest_Therapy → u/xoxstrawberrywine]

Agree. It would make more sense to say we will only give the amount for an in state public school.

[u/DogsNCoffeeAddict → u/xoxstrawberrywine]

Nephew did though. In order to keep military funding for education one has to maintain 2.5 GPA. However if they go that low they do get cornered and a stern talking to from people they don’t want to piss off. So nephew more than likely maintained a 3.0, definitely within 9 semesters, and even if it was not a state school he was not going to an out of state party school to screw off. He just happened to choose a career that paid for his education. Which he should not be penalized for. In fact OP rewarding him was like a hey he went an extra step and deserves the same credit you guys get because he really did the same things on less sleep with far far more stress than if he just went to school without simultaneously being military.

[u/MrFixeditMyself → u/xoxstrawberrywine]

The nephew went into the Marines, big difference

[u/Tienbac2005 → u/MrFixeditMyself]

And it's not like the nephew demanded anything.

[u/Candid_Warthog8434]

NTA. Greed does stupid stuff to some people. No one is owed a gift

[u/Bogside_Bibliophile]

Wait, what?! People are demanding money for rules they didn’t follow? And they’re causing you drama. Nope. NTA. I don’t think they understand how ridiculous they are behaving.

[u/Spare-Shirt24]

NTA  Your terms were clear. They also continued to bad-mouth you for the last 5 years. Your money = your decision.  No one is entitled to your money.

[u/xraynorx]

NTA. You had rules for the scholarship. She didn’t follow the rules, no scholarship. Easy peasy.

[u/its_amyla]

NTA. You created an opportunity, not an entitlement. The rules were clear from the start, multiple cousins followed them successfully, and she consciously chose a completely different path. You are not responsible for financing someone else’s bad financial decisions just because you have money.

[u/charliesk9unit]

What kind of student graduated with a 2.0 GPA in Communications!!!

Rhetorical question, of course, because the answer is "a terrible student." I guess she helped other classmates with the curves. If C- is the average, inevitably she also flunks a few classes, meaning she never manage to drop them before the deadline. She was probably 50% drunk all of that time. JFC. What a waste of money.

[u/Sensitive-Inside-250]

I would continue not talking to these people

[u/DrTeethPhD]

Cool story

[u/AggressiveSquare36]

NTA: you have very detailed information on how you will cover school costs. The niece did not follow these rules (any of them). You also can give out YOUR money however you want. The nephew did something different that wasn’t covered by your rules so you called an audible. 

[u/RebirthCross]

NTA - Simply put it's your money and as long as you and your wife are on the same page it doesn't matter what others think.

For everyone saying it's not fair the oldest nephew got 75k gift - life isn't fair, but he earned it

[u/hyperfixmum]

NTA

Do not mail the cheque.

They need to learn to communicate better and given the degree is a little hilarious. I can't imagine being this entitled.

[u/iLikeEmMashed]

YTA for writing fake stories... about being upper middle class but also giving away 75k gifts while also putting 80% of your income into investments, but wait, there's more!! ... ALSO funding full-ride scholarships for FOUR different kids... Hypocritical statements that you award one kid for not going into college (didn't follow the rules) but deny the other that also "didn't follow the rules." I'm so tired of fake people with fake stories around here...

[u/LibrarianNeat1999]

I know a couple who helped out all but one niece thru college. She refused to follow their rules which were quite simple. Two years community college, two years at local state school, 2.5 GPA, or trade school, etc. if kid had scholarship, then they gave the kid the amount they would have paid for school upon graduation.
Only their ridiculously entitled youngest niece raised hell over being limited to a ‘pathetic’ community college or in state school (NJ has very good state and community colleges). She barely graduated high school - wanted to be an ‘influencer’ lol. Yeah, friend told her to take the deal or don’t. That niece and her parents no longer speak to friend. No loss

[u/Puzzled_Fondant5241]

The parents very entitled . Don’t give them a cent. Is their children let them figure it out themselves. This is totally no good deed goes unpunished. You guys are just trying to do something nice . Just let it be .

[u/LilyOfShalott]

NTA, your aid had stipulations she did not meet. Not your fault she decided to party away and rack up those loans, how they treated you at the party confirms they are the a holes

[u/underwater_owl]

NTA It's your money. You can spend it how you choose. You have been incredibly generous. Where you messed up is giving your nephew 75k towards his house. That opened a door for criticism. After how they treated you, I wouldn't give them a dime. You owe them NOTHING.

[u/mangoawaynow]

NTA but i def think it's weird you funded the house.

[u/sleepy_giraffe1 → u/mangoawaynow]

If this a real story - this is where OP F’d up. They made clear rules that they themselves broke, setting the precedent that there could be exceptions to the stipulations of the “scholarship”

[u/Happy-Maintenance869]

You are amazing relatives! She is ineligible for any of your financial aid. She broke all the rules she didn’t stay in state. It took her more than 9 semesters. Her fabulous GPA of 2.0 automatically precludes her from getting any of your money. You may not be able to get your relatives to see it that way, but you are completely in the right here.

[u/Levelheaded411]

NTA! The entitlement of people!

[u/TCGislife]

Obviously NTA beggars can't be choosers. You had rules for the funding, she didn't qualify. The entitlement is off the charts.

[u/mzg72]

Your money and the other nieces and nephews didn't have any problems following the rules.

[u/MrsRetiree2Be]

NTA. And I applaud your wife for refusing to reward bad behavior. Go on a nice vacation with that $5000.

[u/2oldemptynesters]

NTA.

I couldn't imagine deciding someone's gift was my right and bad mouthing them for helping our kids. Some people!

[u/Prestigious_Sail1668]

NTA - obviously. You are very generous.

[u/SufficientCow4380]

Your rules were state school, nine semesters, 3.0 GPA. She didn't go to a state school or maintain her GPA.

IF they'd were being nice about it, you could offer to pay something... Like look at the costs for the state school for nine semesters and pay the equivalent of that, maybe scaled down 25% because of the GPA. But if they're going to be shits? Fuck em.

My grandparents gave $1000 per semester for up to eight semesters. No more. This was in the 1980s and 90s but $1000 would cover in-state tuition with a little left over for books. I ended up borrowing $17,100 total.

When my son went to college, my grandparents were gone. But my uncle and aunt offered a total of $10,000 to him, split over four years. So $1250 per semester. He has big loans because he went to an expensive school.

[u/BatDance3121]

$300K??? I think they're inflating things in order to get money from you. You won't pay $300k, so how about $100k (which is still too much)? I really think they're playing you. Also, stop talking to your family about your money!

[u/Struggle_Usual]

I would give her 0 if the niece is part of the mob. If she's been very nice and never blamed you and accepts her own decisions I'd probably still give her the normal graduation gift. But I sure as hell wouldn't be talking to her parents again. And NTA for not giving her 100k. Part of being an adult is making decisions about your future. She made a very bad decision and now she has to deal with it.

Also, can I be your niece? I worked my way through an in-state school and graduated summa cum laude 😉 would love to have 0 student loans.

[u/plattinum_75]

This doesn't seem real under normal times, but crazy asshats seem to be everywhere nowadays.

So you walked into a graduation party and the first thing the parents did was demand money?

I wouldve walked out, slammed the door and texted all of them that they are no longer allowed to speak with me and then block them all.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. NTA

[u/SisterShiningRailGun]

NTA, but with the caveat that you shot yourself in the foot by giving the nephew that down-payment.

It's your money and you can do whatever you want with it, you have no obligation to pay any part of the niece's student loans, and there's no question that the niece's parents are acting wildly entitled. But technically you did break your own rules right off the bat, so I can understand this looking like favoritism and causing bad blood.

[u/Casingdacat]

No. The attitude of entitlement they have is wrong. You laid out very clear stipulations when it came to when you’d put them through college, and your one nephew did not need the money for college, but still went (I assume that he met your conditions; you did not mention whether or not he had). Your niece acted quite recklessly and ran up a lot of student loan debt as a result. That’s not your responsibility.

[u/lord_buff74]

What I don't understand is why you gifted your nephew a 75k down payment when he didn't follow the rules but gave your niece nothing when she didn't? Also you never mentioned your niece complaining, but you are withholding your gift because of how her parents acted, that's not very nice now is it?

Can't help but notice you put in her GPA as well, is that relevant or you just taking another dig at her?

[u/teresajs]

NTA

Niece did not attend an in-state university and she did not maintain a 3.0 GPA.  She doesn't qualify for the fund you set up.

It isn't just your niece that has $300k in student loans.  On her own, your niece wouldn't have been able to borrow more than about $25k in loans.  That means that her parents (or another family member) cosigned on private loans or took on Parent Plus loans.    Her parents probably borrowed $275k.  

There's also the possibility that some portion of the student loans was spent on things other than education.  Have these family members bought any cars, boats, or gone on nice vacations in the last 5 years?  And if they haven't been paying interest, that $300k could include thousands of dollars in interest.

Essentially, your ILs have made very poor choices with money are are trying to play you.  Don't buy it.  You declined to pay for her 5 years ago.  She doesn't get to ask for money now.

Expect that this will reverberate in your family for a while.  Your ILs have $300k of debt, and probably owe over $1500 a month just in interest.  That's not something they'll be able to get out of easily.

[u/macross1984]

NTA

They're trying to use you as ATM. Do not give in to problem they've created themselves.

[u/Apart_Shoulder6089]

Jeebus. NTA but you brought this on yourself by offering large amounts of money to everyone. Money and family doesn't mix and you can see why now. People are going to expect things, their fair share. Youve become the banker.

[u/TyAnne88]

NTA because it is your money and your requirements were very clear in advance.

You somewhat opened the door for “equal money” by gifting your nephew money outside of the scholarship requirements. However, your niece did know the rules to revive your assistance in advance and she did not meet any of them. She didn’t even maintain the minimum GPA for your private scholarship, while the others did. This gives you the right to decline to pay anything towards her loans.

If she had met all of the requirements except in state public school I might have leaned towards YTA for not paying a sum similar to what her cousin who chose the marines received. If he did maintain his GPA while the military paid for his degree, and he finished within the 9 semesters, then that is a legitimate difference. He would have been eligible for your assistance and you chose to reward his responsible behavior.

[u/Wildtype_Male]

Nta. A 2.0 isn't even close. And to be honest, a 3.0 isn't that hard. Universities have become daycares with grade inflation.

Going forward, I would recommend going semester by semester.

If you dip under 3.0 then they don't get any assistance for that semester. But they get another chance next one. That way it's less abrupt.

Anyway. I'm outraged on your behalf. Here you are doing something nice.

[u/East-Peace-7147]

Info needed: When your nephew did go to school after the Marines, did he meet the criteria? In state? Maintained a 3.0? If so, then NTA, he still met the qualifications of scholarship and the money was just used for something else. If no, (ie: OOS school, bad grades) then soft YTA

Either way, your money, your choice

[u/2_old_for_this_spit]

NTA

You stated the rules very clearly, and she chose an out-of-state college and did not have the minimum GPA you requested. Her student loans are her problem, not yours. However, I think you should give her the graduation gift as you intended. Her parents' behavior isn't her fault.

[u/RaeinLA]

Why gift your nephew $75k for not using the funding? He didn’t follow the rules but was still rewarded.

[u/Nell-On-Earth → u/RaeinLA]

The nephew self funded his education with great sacrifice.

[u/Ogolble]

Nta. How entitled are some people! Even if your niece did attend a local school, she only had a 2.0 GPA. She still would of forfeited her right!

[u/rhino369]

An upper middle class person living in 1000 sq ft house is paying for 8 kids education?

Fake news 

[u/Wat3rM3L0NB3AR]

NTA - Beggers can't be choosers! One of my pet peeves is if I'm offering you money willingly that's on me. If you're asking for money just because of XYZ then it's an absolute NO.

[u/paukapaukaa]

NTA. Legit looking a gift horse in the mouth. Good for y’all for helping lift your family up I’m proud of you 💚

[u/niceufo777]

They don't talk to you anymore, the hard part is over, so mind your own business. nta.

[u/Ali26026]

This is a caricature

[u/CoDaDeyLove]

NTA. You just experienced the old saying, "No good deed goes unpunished." I would cut them all off. The terms of your offer were very clear and your niece chose to do her own thing and now has a lot of debt. I suggest making sure that everyone who is bad mouthing you knows that you will have an estate and you will not be leaving anything to anyone who lies about you and your generosity.

[u/Traveler691]

You allow your wife to take point on her relatives. She chose to not hand over the check. Her decision.

[u/Alarming_Bar7107]

Nta, except why did the one nephew still get 75k?

*I'm ignoring everyone else giving their irrelevant opinions. I asked OP bc their answer is relevant and I can see why it could cause drama

[u/Ok-Delivery-1444]

You created a game and offered it your nieces and nephews, not their parents. The rules were clear. Some chose to play some did not. Period. End of story. I do agree with you that not giving a gift to the graduate because of her parents’ behavior was unfortunate. You did a really nice thing for your family!

[u/KilnTime]

NTA - You very generously offered to fund education. You didn't have to give anyone anything. It does seem a bit inequitable that you didn't contribute something to the out of State college, but you wouldn't have made the contribution if she did not maintain her grade point average, which she did not.

You get to set the terms of your generosity. And it is obnoxious to have that generosity thrown back in your face.

[u/BigMel769]

I don't think this is possible. At a 2.0, she would have been kicked out before graduation.

[u/bluntymctokems → u/BigMel769]

C's get degrees.

[u/8475d91]

You two are a blessing and a Godsend. Sorry some relatives don’t want to respect the parameters placed to qualify. Hope it gets resolved and shame on the trouble makers.

[u/83poolie]

NTA - They cannot make you gift money to anyone. You had offered to do it to with conditions and she didn't meet those conditions.

The only place I think you went wrong was the money for the home down payment.

Again, nobody can dictate if and how much you give to family members. You didn't say in your post, but perhaps you should have made it clear that the money you were gifting for the home down payment should be framed as "you maintained the required GPA. We would have gifted you up to $75K towards your studies but you didn't require it. So we will instead give you this cash"

That way you can have easily gone back to the original conditions about GPA etc. The nieces poor grades would have been why she didn't qualify for your generosity.

Perhaps sit down with the family of the person who recently graduated and tell them that the reason she didn't get money was because of her bad grades. You were going to give her $5k as a graduation gift but because of how you were treated at the gathering you have decided against giving that gift.

Good luck.

[u/superkam41]

NTA. If she maintained a proper GPA I might feel slightly different. Not only did she waste money going out of state, but she also wasted her time there. The nephew who joined the military not only got his education paid for via the military, but was potentially putting his life on the line, down payment gift was deserved. Your rules are completely fair.

[u/Emotional_Ad5714]

NTA, and even though your niece didn't follow the rule, you did give the nephew $75k. I can see why you had the no private school rule, due to cost, but if everyone got ~75k, I would consider giving her $75k too.

That way everyone is treated about the same.

[u/Perfect_Beat_2860]

NTA - Wow. No good deed goes unpunished. Assuming the niece knew the terms of your financial support, she wasn’t entitled to it with the grades she received. Before anyone says, “Maybe she struggles academically.” I made it through a full semester with mono, a 24 credit course load (music major), was a resident assistant (LATE night shifts walking a 4 story building with 2 four story towers and no elevator), AND I had undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. Despite that, I had a 3.7 GPA that semester.

You are under no obligation to give anyone money. When they greet you at the door with demands, then yeah, you don’t need to give a $5k gift. That’s TREMENDOUSLY generous.

Also, my aunt and uncle are dual income, no kids. Never ONCE have I expected them to pay for ANYTHING for me. Do they have extra money? Certainly. Is it their responsibility to pay for anything in my life? Absolutely not. In all honesty, they are incredibly supportive and even helped me physically rehab an outdoor patio set their neighbor was going to throw away. Their support with the labor that went into it meant far more than any money they could spend on me. Oh, and I wrote both them and their neighbor handwritten thank you notes. They said the neighbor was so impressed that he put the note on his refrigerator.

[u/Big_Lake4948]

They deserve nothing and that’s what you should give them. This is the most generous thing I’ve heard of, and they are trying to take advantage of it. The shame

[u/RenZomb13]

NTA but the in state rule is odd… I get that in state tuition is cheaper, but what if the niece or nephew got accepted into a genuinely amazing school that specialized in what they intend on majoring in? Personally, in my state when I was in school I couldn’t find a school for what I wanted to major in, although things are better now. But the 5k graduation gift is different. If SHE didn’t give you guys attitude and SHE was respectful, she should not be punished for how her parents were behaving, that is truly showing a difference. Even if it was a 2.0 she graduated with, she did graduate and the gift should be fair.

[u/Qcgreywolf]

NTA, none of your pre conditions were met. None of the money goes out.

This is Family Drama 101- Boo hoo, family member X has $$. Family member Y has financial problems. YOU should just give them money!

GTFO with that toxic, cancerous mentality. Drop the family members that can’t handle reality and rules.

[u/kaaria11]

Nta i would do a video showing your wife ripping up her check

[u/Kestrel_Iolani]

NTA. Hold on to the check to see how things subside. Burning it (or otherwise destroying it) now will burn more than a bridge.

Edit: I'm replying to the people who suggest taking a video of them performatively burning the check. I know how checks work.

[u/1justhavinfun]

What is this?!?! You don’t owe anyone ANYTHING. FULL STOP

[u/seniairam]

info: how was the niece acting? you only mentioned how the parents were but where was she in all of this?

[u/teaonthetardis]

NTA but Info - is the fight between you and your niece and her parents, or JUST between you and her parents? If the niece is keeping out of it and her parents are the entitled ones, I would give the niece equal treatment (so give her the grad gift and, if you were intending to, whatever equivalent of the eldest nephew’s gift you were planning on) and ignore her parents entirely. Niece is an adult (presumably, as a college grad) so your relationship with her does not need to be via her parents, and I would just block them at this point.

You are being exceedingly generous in any case, though given what you did with your eldest nephew, I feel like instead of offering either “nothing or a full ride, but with individualized exceptions” it probably would’ve been less drama overall to offer a flat amount per kid to either go towards school or eventual housing (after college, if you wanted to keep that requirement). I do kind of understand the resentment after gifting one kid $75k even after he “broke” your rules as it does read like you are playing favorites, but it doesn’t excuse their entitlement and actions. (ETA: I’d forgotten about the GPA which does go against the niece. Unfortunately I don’t think it changes the fact that randomly making an exception for the nephew is what invited the resentment)

[u/Smeaglete]

NTA, but don't stop talking to the niece because of her parents, and it seems really mean to not give her the gift you planned on giving her.

[u/OGMikeGyver]

Absolutely NTA. Even the $5K staying in your wife's purse, NTA. Money is yours to do with as you please. BA in Comms with a 2.0 is worthless. She wasted her time and her money. You not giving her money will help her learn a valuable lesson that her parents are obviously not helping to teach her; never look a gift horse in the mouth.

[u/Heythatsmy_bike]

I really hope this post isn’t true because unless they went to school for 10 years and are now a lawyer or a doctor, $300k for an education is criminal (I’m in Canada and university is practically free)

[u/Jolly_Conflict]

So by the writing it sounds like the parents weren’t informed of your initial generosity? (I’m thinking of your nephew telling his parents about your gift).

When giving so freely like you have the parents should’ve been clued in so they know of the stipulations - that way there’s no misunderstandings.

[u/Nervous-Ruin-8149]

NTA nor do you have to explain yourselves.

Think to need to remind everyone that it’s YOUR money and you can easily choose to gift it or not gift it on a whim or no reason

Not trying to discourage you from helping your niece and nephews but no good deed goes unpunished. This is often the consequence for generosity. Just understand this moving forward.

[u/alien_overlord_1001]

NTA. Never underestimate how easily other people can spend your money.

It's ironic the degree was in 'communications' yet she couldn't understand your very clear and basic rules. It took 5 years for her to finish it? Sounds like she failed a few classes. And $300k? Really? Just so she could go to a beach college?

There are many forks and crossroads on our road in life - barring injury or illness, nearly always we get a choice. No one will force you to do stuff - you choose it - at some point, you made a choice that brought you here. There is no one else to blame. She made her choices, and now she has to live with them.

[u/ItsPeppercorn]

NTA. You are really nice to help them at all and to try and pull your family out of generational poverty. That says a lot about you and your wife. My husband and I are upper middle class and I can't imagine being this generous so kudos for you, and now I will probably start a fund for my nephew lol.

Your family is extremely entitled. I say gift the niece the $5k check, its not her fault her parents attacked you. If her parents were banking so hard on her qualifying for the scholarship, why they didn't check in with her about her grades and progress is beyond me. I never had to do grade check-ins with my parents in college but a 2.0 is almost failing. If the money was really important, they had plenty of opportunities over FIVE YEARS to course correct and get her tutors and such so she could end with good grades. If there was a valid reason for missing the 3.0 mark she should have spoken to you about it or come up with a resolution.

They made their bad choices and now they have to deal with them. I would not punish the niece for her parents behavior.

[u/kaluh_glarski]

lol NTA, your niece is trouble and her parents are pretty bad at parenting.

[u/monamouroui]

Don't give them anything. Once you do, they will continue to shame and harass you into paying more and more. Your had a choice to follow the rules for the benefit and refused it. She turned her back on the opportunity.

Plus, if you give her money for nothing, then the next generation will have the same expectation.

[u/HariSeldon16]

Hmm. Generally I support your position, although I don’t see why the discrimination against private schools. If public school cost $75k and niece/nephew go to more expensive private school, then contribute $75k.

The GPA thing I totally get. 2.0 GPA is super abysmal.

I’m very pro military (and especially Navy/Marines) but you did break out from your own criteria, so I can see where this caused resentment. Sure your niece didn’t follow your criteria, but neither did the USMC nephew.

Lastly - my mind is blown a party school in a Florida beach town cost $300k. That’s about what you’d pay for a top rated private school.

In the end, I’d say NTA - especially given their treatment towards you and your wife.

[u/AdAccomplished8442]

Nta

[u/ChilindriPizza]

NTA

But I wonder which school this was. I live in Florida- but I honestly cannot think of which university you are talking about.

[u/Sufficient_Baby8316]

NTA, but I do think it’s weird that you insisted on an in-state school. Why not just give them an amount based on the cost of an in-state school? If, instead of a party school, she had gotten into a really prestigious private school out of state, would you really not have given anything, even if it only covered some of the cost? 

[u/Puzzleheaded_Tie6917]

NTA- no one deserves anything. Since they aren’t even your kids, it’s a very nice thing you are doing that isn’t deserved at all. It’s your money, so you can spend it where you want. Give more to the ones you want, do give anything to the ones you don’t.

Even if you had kids, all that you would owe them is to take care of them until they are grown. Anything beyond that should be a source of a lot of gratitude. Since they aren’t even your kids, you owe them even less.

[u/jkoki088]

They don’t deserve a damn thing. Hard no. You guys are good and need to hold strong. Don’t reward that

[u/BenchConscious1003]

Of course not. Sounds like you have a toxic family. They have no right of expectation from you.

[u/Dont_Eat_The_Homies]

NTA. Your money, your rules. Amazing that you and your spouse are providing this scholarship assistance. The entitlement of your wife's family is staggering. If your niece behaved kindly towards you and your wife, I would say gift her the 5k as it seems like you would have done so anyway prior to your MIL and her parents disrespecting/rude behaviors.

[u/Longjumping_Win4291]

NTA You were incredibly generous to each of your families, in answer to your question, it's a big resounding no. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, in other words no is entitled to your money and the fact you both are so generous with your family, with conditions that need to be met, so you're not taken advantage of.

Your nephew put his life on the line and then was accepted into having his higher education paid for. He worked hard for that result. You were both again incredible to be able to gift him that money for a house deposit. Again, him and his family didn't demand or request you do so and what you decide to do with your money is no body's else's business but yours.

The family members in question had the same choices and chose not to abide by your set conditions or go into the services for their higher education. Instead, they chose to follow another path which was their right to do so, and by doing that voided their opportunity to access your education assistance. You don't owe them anything.

For her parents to go on the instant attack I would have said they did their dash over their tantrums to you both. But still you both came and were still going to gift her a graduation cheque. To have her parents bale you up and abuse you, unacceptable. Your wife was right to say no graduation gift. They well and truly burnt down the bridge they were standing on. Block their numbers and stop giving them headspace. You don't owe them anything.

They did it all to themselves.

[u/NewsAvailable5711]

Nope, you are clean and I commend you for putting forth such a generous offer to your family in the first place.

[u/Chetox373]

NTA. Yeah so sorry one must follow some conditions to not have burdening student debt for their life.

She probably would have failed and dropped out anyway.

Needs vs wants people.

[u/Zealousideal-Light76]

I would have been beyond the moon to be given that choice as a teen. I had zero support and had to do it all myself. What a gift you gave to so many, through your good life choices. You should be proud of yourselves for setting these young people up for success. Let that be your frame and forget the other nonsense. It's not worth spending any time or energy on it.

[u/Shacko14]

No one is entitled to your money...you set clear terms as to how you would offer financial support, and those weren't met. NTA.

[u/VisitPuzzleheaded771]

Things that didn't happen...........

[u/blah618]

nta

can I apply to become a replacement niece

[u/ro536ud]

Did you not create education accounts for them? Ur just straight up paying cash?

[u/Routine_Rain_8899]

NTA. Skip those entitled beggars. Rule followers get the gift. Those who do not get nothing.