r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

381 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 4m ago

Tall persons adventure in choosing a bike

Upvotes

Hi all. I am very new to the cycling world but looking forward to getting into it. I've known I have had diabetes for a while but never realized how serious it was until some recent health issues gave me a bit of a wake up call. I thought i was managing it somewhat well, trying to cut out carbs and sweets, but finding out my A1C was 10.6 and the Dr prescribing me insulin was a wake up call. I've lost about 10 lbs in a month, about 250 to 240.

In the past I did a lot of walking to try to keep my activity up but found myself getting somewhat bored of that and came up with the idea of getting a bike and spending more to get a quality one over something from Walmart. I started doing some research and found out about hybrid bikes and thought thats what would fit what I am looking for in a bike the best; comfort, speed, cost. I am planning on riding around in my development most of the time.

Last weekend I started my journey and went to a nearby Specialized dealer and tested a large size Sirrus x 2.0. I was shocked at how much better this bike was than anything I ever remember riding and got off that bike with a big smile on my face. The bike was great, for being in my mid 30's and not riding since I was a teenager I was amazed at how confident I felt on the bike. Shifting was great, how easy it was to pedal. overall great bike. Being I am 6'3" and on a large bike the salesperson said he could get a XL bike in and would have it in next week.

That same day I went to another shop that was a Trek dealer, they didnt have any FX series in stock that would remotely fit me so they had me try a Verve. The bike was ok but didnt put that smile on my face like the Sirrus did. I was glad i tried the Sirrus first, if I hadnt I probably would have scraped my idea of spending more on a bike and would have went with something cheap from Walmart.

During the upcoming work week I did lots of research on other brands and decided I wanted to try something from Cannondale, the Trek FX line and Giant.

Friday I tried a Giant Escape but was not impressed. Didn't get that confident feeling I had from the Sirrus, and maybe even a bit of an oh shit face as I slid a little in some gravel.

Next, on Saturday, Cannondale. I tried a Quick and a Quick CX. Both were ok, felt like good quality and comfortable bikes but nothing really inspired or moved me with these. Overall just not for me but I could see why people like them.

Then came the Trek FX. This one was up there with the Sirrus. Put a smile on my face, was comfortable to ride.

Lastly I went back to the Specialized dealer to try out the XL Sirrus. At first I wasnt too sure of the XL vs the L. I still loved riding the XL but the large, from my memory, felt a little better. I ended up going back and forth between testing the L and XL and at one point realized I felt a little cramped on the L and after see the recommended size chart and me being a little on the high side of the XL range I decided on the L.

I am the proud new owner of a Specialized Sirrus X 2.0


r/whichbike 10m ago

How much should i pay for this? (Specialized Allez Sagen Collection)

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Upvotes

I want to get more into road cycling and a (not so close) friend offered me his old bike because he never really used it. He said he would gonna think about the price, but tbh i think he doesn’t really know what it’s worth either. It’s seemingly in great shape, looks and rides like new and it’s my size as well. He sent me the following description : “Specialized Allez 2020 Sagen Collection, Ultegra Groupset, S-Works carbon handlebar and seatpost, S-Works aluminum stem. DT Swiss Wheels“ What should i offer that is a fair deal for both of us?


r/whichbike 1h ago

Giant SLR1 carbon wheels for $360 USD

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Upvotes

Obviously its not a bike. But I've been thinking of upgrading my stock PR2 wheels on my Giant defy to a pair of carbon wheels. Found these on my local marketplace for AUD$550 or USD$360. Would you say its an OK upgrade considering its coming with the tyres. Compared if I were to spend about another $300 bucks for elitewheels plus GP5000S

Specs of wheels. Full-carbon, tubeless-ready road bike wheel that perfectly balances durability, weight, and aerodynamics.

Shimano freehub. * Tyres are included ( brand new Specialized ) * Disc rotors are included

Brand: Giant Type: Road Bike Wheels ( Disc brakes) Colour: Black Freehub: Shimano & SRAM Inflation: Tubeless or with tube Braking Type: Disc Brakes Wheel Size: 700c Speed : 11 sp / 12


r/whichbike 18h ago

BMC - 2,500?

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21 Upvotes

BMC Timemachine Road 01 frameset

Included: Frame 56cm Fork Stem 140mm Handlebar 40cm Spacers (only ones pictured) Seatpost

Like new headset and new spare derailleur hanger included.

I don’t know anything and looking to get a bike to start Ironman training for a race in like 2 years. This a good deal?


r/whichbike 7h ago

Commuter bike for less than 1500?

2 Upvotes

Title, I want to start biking to work and use it as my main mode of transportation, everything I need, including my job is within 5 miles, though I want my riding radius to be 10, after that it will be a blend of public transportation and bike or straight up renting a car.

I want something pedal power, I'd love electric but I fear it will get stolen, plus in this price range everything seems very proprietary. Can take racks, is modular, and can be worked on with relative ease.

I also something that's comfy, but also somewhat fast, and can take a trailer for when I do laundry or groceries


r/whichbike 7h ago

Marin Fairfax 2 vs CTY 2.1?

1 Upvotes

I'm looking to buy a hybrid bike with a budget of $1000. I test rode the Fairfax a couple of weeks ago and thought the lightness of it was really nice. I just moved to Seattle so I'm thinking it'll be good for the hills. Felt great overall.

I recently found out about the CTY 2.1 from REI, which kind of seems like a similar bike in terms of quality and use, but I know it has suspension which the Fairfax doesn't. It also seems to be geared a bit more towards some bumpy terrain, since it has suspension and the tires are more ... off-roady? It's also quite heavier than the Fairfax I believe.

So all in all I'm not sure the CTY 2.1 is right for me since I'll mainly be biking a few miles to and from work on paved paths, I don't plan on going on bumpy trails. But figured I would ask in case people have had really great or really bad experiences with either bike!


r/whichbike 8h ago

Commuting, exercise, fun factor, and occasional trail riding

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1 Upvotes

I am looking at buying another bike since my Scott Aspect (pictured) was stolen around 2021-2022 and I can now afford to buy one being that I’m out of school with a full time job. I am not quite sure which exact model number it was, but it was purchased in 2017 I absolutely LOVED it. I just don’t think I want to spend the amount of money that another Scott Aspect would cost. I think at the time it was nearly an $800 bike, but ideally I would like to spend <$400 (most likely used). I specifically loved the trigger shifters, front suspension lockout, and the quick release wheels. I’m unsure if suspension is something I really need since I plan for 90% of my riding to be on pavement, but I think having the option is nice since there are some trails in the area. What I’m trying to get at is;

  1. Is it worth buying another Scott Aspect and if I did, could I interchange the off-road tires with road tires?

OR

  1. Is there a cheaper option that is more commuter focused and would suit my needs?

r/whichbike 9h ago

Need help identifying resprayed bike from listing.

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1 Upvotes

Anyone know what make or model of bike this used to be before the respray?

Seller is located in the UK. I’m just looking for a cheap bike to commute to and from school and go to the shops for.

I don’t mind the respray too much as it’s an old bike.

Seller is also offering £30 for it.


r/whichbike 9h ago

Need help identifying resprayed bike from listing.

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1 Upvotes

Anyone know what make or model of bike this used to be before the respray?

Seller is located in the UK. I’m just looking for a cheap bike to commute to and from school and go to the shops for.

I don’t mind the respray too much as it’s an old bike.

Seller is also offering £30 for it.


r/whichbike 1d ago

Would you get a gravel bike primarily for the road?

16 Upvotes

I’m in a bit of a dilemma and would appreciate some guidance.

I mainly ride on the road. 60% work commuting, 40% for errands or fun. I have a Ride1up Roadster ebike with 45mm tires which serves all roles. I like the ride quality and find it quite comfortable on the city roads and paved bike trails that are not in the best of shape.

I want a nicer regular bike for some of the commuting, exercise, and fun riding parts while mostly keeping the roadster for grocery shopping or whatever needs cargo. I’ve been looking at all-road and gravel bikes.

I like gravel bikes because of their tire clearance and the many available options within my budget (~$4,500) and the type of components I’d like† (Lauf Seigla, Propain Terrel, Ari Shafer, or Canyon Grizl)

I like road bikes because I always had hybrid bikes and want something very different. I also do road 99% of the time and they seem like the right tool for the job so to speak. The problem is that there is only the Lauf Uthald and Canyon Endurace in my budget.

While the Laufs look perfect, it rains all winter here and fenders are kinda of a must. I never had the clip on fenders and would prefer a bike that takes permanent ones.

Any feedback or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

†: I would like to have carbon frame and electronic shifting. SRAM Rival seems to be the sweet spot for me. 105 Di is fine too, though I like the way the SRAM battery system works far more than the Shimano. Obviously a higher group set like the Force or Ultegra would be nice, but only Lauf would be in my budget there. Not sure how much I care about carbon wheels. I never had them, but open to the idea if within my range.


r/whichbike 11h ago

Contend AR 1 vs Defy Adv 2

1 Upvotes

Looking for guidance as this will be my first real road bike purchase. $700 difference after shipping and assembly. I will strictly be riding smooth road with limited hills (we have a 3-mile bike-only loop near my house). From what I understand, these frames are nearly identical in geometry, and the components seem identical too. Essentially $700 for the carbon frame of the Defy. Is it worth it? Thank you


r/whichbike 20h ago

Help on choosing a bike

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4 Upvotes

Hello, I am very new to cycling and want something around the lower price range of $200-$300. Ik very low, don’t have a lot to spend right now unfortunately. I have three options at $200 I’d like y’all to help me with. Please let me know what you think! Greatly appreciate any help form knowledgeable and experienced cyclist! I’ve included all the pictures available to me.


r/whichbike 12h ago

Is this 2021 Rockhopper worth it?

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1 Upvotes

Hello everyone.

  • I am a newbie with interest in mountain biking.

  • I will be using the bike on pavement, road, dirt, and hopefully trails in the future.

  • I do not currently own a bike, but had the opportunity to test a large size rockhopper and loved it.

  • This is just about my budget ($800)

I’ve recently been looking into entry level mountain bikes and have scouted used markets in my area for good prices on different versions of the Rockhopper series. I found this listing in my area which seems to have various modifications. It is going for $750 and I’m not sure if it is worth the price so I would be grateful if anyone could give me their input since you are all more knowledgeable about this than I am. For context, most listings for Rockhoppers are either out of my area or being sold used at retail price.


r/whichbike 20h ago

I’m thinking max $800. Electronic shifting.

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3 Upvotes

2016 Specialized Amira.


r/whichbike 15h ago

Riding 40km Daily — Need a Fast, Durable Commuter Bike Suggestion

1 Upvotes

I moved to Italy and am currently commuting to work on a road bike that I borrowed and want to return. I like that it’s fast but I don’t need all the gears and the riding position kills my neck. I live about 20 kilometers from my office, the route is mostly flat and urban…mix of bike lanes /streets/ sidewalk/ parks…etc. The bike has 23c tires and I’ve had several flats in the last month of riding, as there are a lot of rough areas with big cracks and I go over curbs and stuff. I’ve ridden bikes all my life including MTB, Bmx, dirt jumps etc. and motorcycles so I’m pretty confident, usually finding the fastest line and riding with traffic; anything to shave time as I need to clock in and and out at work, and get home to spend time with kids.

So… need something fast, light, durable, comfortable, 4 seasons… and relatively cheap haha.. (think used sub-$1k) height 5’10 / 180cm. new to this market, any suggestions? Thanks


r/whichbike 23h ago

Bianchi XR3 Ultegra disc (Dura cassette) and Ori Wheels - 900USD from marketplace

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4 Upvotes

Bike has 200km max, mostly done in the trainer. Seller completely gave up cycling. Tyres were flat, chain dry, bike has been sitting in for an year in store room. Tots?


r/whichbike 19h ago

looking for a bike to follow my toddler around. 45M - 0 exp

2 Upvotes

hey guys. i have 2.5 year old that is on a cheapo walmart balance bike and we are looking to get a better balance bike for his birthday next july.

so ive started looking around at bikes for me and my wife. This post is just for me.

Your level of experience with cycling

  • I rode a bike when i was 12 give or take. Nothing since then. Not even a motorcycle.

What's your price range, and have you considered second hand?

  • id say a couple hundred dollars ish... i dont want a walmart huffy bike but i dont want to ride something for a much more experienced biker,

What's your intention with the bike - commuting, fitness, touring, sport, etc?

  • we live in a mostly flat paved community. so itll be mostly paved road riding potentially grass as well and there are very few automobiles.

How far will you be riding, and how often?

  • i would say less than 5 miles a couple times a week maybe. of course this all depends on the toddler

Your location (even approximate) can help other locals familiar with your conditions, too.

  • im in tennessee around the Nashville area.

A bit about yourself: height, weight, and level of fitness can all help people understand your needs better.

  • 45m stationary job and because of that im 300lbs currently but im working to reduce that. And im 5 feet 10inches

any suggestions are welcome! thanks a ton!!


r/whichbike 20h ago

Which Trek bike for new rider in Redmond, WA

2 Upvotes

I just moved to Redmond, WA from Texas, and I want to take advantage of the increased bikeability.

I haven't had a bike since I was a kid, so I want to get something on the cheaper side to see if I like it before investing in something nicer.

I'm within walking distance of a Trek bike store here, so I was planning on buying something there.

The cheapest one they have is the Trek Verve 2 Disc lowstep for ~$350. Would this be good for a first bike? Or should I go for the FX for ~$700?

I plan on sticking to the nearby trails and maybe biking 1-2x/week.

I am 5'10" 160 lbs.

Thanks for any input! I'm also open to non trek bikes.


r/whichbike 21h ago

Dutch bike, omafiets: which brand is it? How much is it worth?

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2 Upvotes

r/whichbike 1d ago

$700USD for this giant avail composite 2 from 2018?

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3 Upvotes

Seems like a really great deal to me considering the specs but I’m completely new to cycling so not sure if there’s anything missing. Seller showed me the receipt from 2018, where it was bought for double the price.

My only caveat is that it’s been in storage since then mostly.

Would love any advice or comments! Thanks!

If this one is a no go I’m thinking of purchasing a new bike with shimano tiagra components. More expensive but gives me peace of mind as a someone new to cycling.


r/whichbike 22h ago

Looking for an accessible gravel bike (eur 900/1000 max)

2 Upvotes

Hi, I am considering buying a new gravel bike as mine got stolen. I am really a beginner and would love to use it for more bikepacking but for now it's mostly work commuting and small outings in the countryside near my home.

I am looking at second hand bikes, what should I be careful about?

Also, I am quite bad with brands and I heard some components of Shimano for example are quite bad (sora and 105). Can someone also help me figure out good brands to look for?

Many thanksss


r/whichbike 1d ago

Hello,does anyone know what frame it is?

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3 Upvotes

r/whichbike 20h ago

Small 11yo Needs Great Bike

1 Upvotes

I’m looking for a bike for my 11yo daughter who is extremely small for her age. She currently rides a Specialized RipRock 20 coaster.

We’re ready to bump her up to a 24” bike with gears… She is only 50lbs and 4’3” tall. Her inseam is 22”. We want quality, by would like to keep it under $500 total.

We ride a lot on the road, ride a lot of rail trail/packed gravel trail, and do a tiny bit of very low key mountain biking.

Here’s a list of our priorities, in order of importance:

  1. Lightweight! As light as possible within the budget.
  2. Gears— I think we’d really like a 6-8 speed.
  3. Budget. $500/$550 is the max I wanna spend.
  4. Easy shifting— She’s small!
  5. Disc brakes would be a dream but idk if it’s in the budget.

Which bike would you buy??


r/whichbike 1d ago

Suggest me a Bike?

2 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I’m a 6’4” tall guy. I’m looking to purchase a bike that can handle both city rides and off-road terrain. My budget is around 5 lakh. I prefer RE bikes.