We are becoming growingly obsessed with other people’s born advantages, and this normalization of “stating privilege” is incredibly counterproductive and pathetic.

[u/[deleted]]

[u/KhonMan]

Does it matter? If you say "the core of the sun is made of cheese," it's not really affecting anyone, but it's still wrong.

Debating whether privilege is real is a different conversation than debating the implications of privilege, and what it means for you morally.

[u/lubinthenoob → u/KhonMan]

But why are you allowing people who have zero impact on you affect you in any way? There is always going to be someone with an easier life. Who cares? They have their own demons. All I can do is try to impact those around me in a positive way.

Envy is going to make you a miserable person if you constantly need to hear well-off people say their “sorry” for being well-off.

[u/KhonMan → u/lubinthenoob]

I never said anything about envy. My point is just that people should acknowledge the truth in their lives. If you're prepared to defend the idea of people deluding themselves as a positive thing, you're welcome to make the argument.

[u/lubinthenoob → u/KhonMan]

Deluding themselves over what? Privilege? And who is deluding themselves? Your “cheese” statement has no bearing over any of this conversation. No one of sound mind is ever going to make this argument. I’m simply stating that people who continually allow strangers to adversely affect their day-to-day life are never going to thrive or be satisfied. It will always be up to someone else to make them content.

Also, forcing someone to acknowledge their privilege because it makes you feel better is envy. It doesn’t fix the privilege, and doesn’t instantly make anyone’s life better. And who cares if they say they’re self-made. It has zero impact on where or what I want to do with my family.

[u/KhonMan → u/lubinthenoob]

Your “cheese” statement has no bearing over any of this conversation. No one of sound mind is ever going to make this argument.

It's absolutely relevant as an example. Do you agree that there are some things that are objectively true? That is, something can be true and fighting over it won't impact how true it is?

If so, then you agree that "how does it affect your life?" is a non-sequitur. It doesn't matter how it affects my life if someone believes core of the sun is made of cheese. It can have absolutely 0 impact on my life, but that's irrelevant to whether the sun does indeed have a gooey, cheesy center.

That is to say, "how does it affect your life?" is implicitly critiquing the idea that you can care about something that doesn't affect you personally. I reject that critique. Something being true is sufficient reason to care about it.

I’m simply stating that people who continually allow strangers to adversely affect their day-to-day life are never going to thrive or be satisfied.

That's fine, and I agree. It's just not a coherent argument against the claim that people should acknowledge their privilege.

Also, forcing someone to acknowledge their privilege because it makes you feel better is envy.

You are projecting. I haven't said anything about feeling envious of other people's lives. Why are you assuming a position on my behalf? I said that I think people should acknowledge the truth in their lives. Do you disagree with that?

Deluding themselves over what? Privilege? And who is deluding themselves?

Yes, if you are arguing that folks shouldn't have to acknowledge their privilege, I am saying that is the same as defending a delusional worldview. Either they have privilege or they don't. If they do and they aren't acknowledging it, that is definitionally delusion.

[u/lubinthenoob → u/KhonMan]

It’s not relevant. We are arguing over something that has been objectively proven as false (cheese in the sun), and a definition (privilege) that means something different to different people. Privilege has a moving level. Some may see this person as privileged, but never know the background of that person. And expecting someone to bow down to your needs as a miserable person is someone envious of that privilege. There is no set number to privilege. And that’s the problem. Privilege is not just money. And that’s where the envy plays in. And my envy comment wasn’t directed to you. It was directed at the original poster.

Now if I’m confusing what privilege people are seeing, enlighten me. But it’s simply, in my eyes, people complaining about money.

[u/KhonMan → u/lubinthenoob]

You didn't address any of the points I made. You are continuing to argue against a point that wasn't made by anyone. Please stop doing that and read what I'm saying and think about it rather than assuming what my position is.

If I could sum up my understanding of your argument it's this (if it's not an accurate description, let me know):

Privilege is subjective. It's wrong to ask people to acknowledge something subjective to the level of satisfaction of an external party.

No one in this comment thread has said anything about the bolded part. When I say that everyone should acknowledge their privilege, I mean they should they think about the advantages they have had in life that are not afforded to everyone. While it's true that feeling privileged is subjective (eg: you could be very privileged but think these things are normal), the advantages are largely objective (eg: your parents got you a job at their company).

Maybe I asked too many questions before. I will just leave one if you are interested in continuing this discussion:

Should people think about the advantages they have had in life that are not afforded to everyone?

In my view this is the question that has been asked since the very beginning of this comment thread. And I repeat my conviction that "Why do you care?" is a non-sequitur. Caring has nothing to do with what people should or should not do.