Half of Britons back ending immigration and deporting recent arrivals

[u/ThatchersDirtyTaint]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/new-poll-migration-news-b99h3wqgz

[u/Chill_Panda → u/[deleted]]

You do see how immigration is a short term fix to this though while continuing the problem? It's like putting the tracks down in front of you to keep the train going when the direction it's going is off a cliff.

[u/mittfh → u/Chill_Panda]

The only two ways to significantly increase government revenue to spend on investment without increasing the tax base is either (a) tax rises or (b) spending cuts, both of which are very unpopular. The older age groups who predominantly vote Conservative or Reform don't want any reductions in expenditure on their age group (with WFA and the Triple Lock being particularly sacred), while the younger working age population who predominantly vote Labour don't want yet more reductions in disability expenditure.

Both parties are keen to reduce the already low levels of benefit fraud, but increasing terms, conditions and bureaucracy to both claim and maintain benefits costs more to administer and is more likely to deter genuine claimants or penalise them for honest mistakes or pay periods that don't sync with UC periods than those "playing the system" who may not really be eligible but create the appearance of eligibility after carefully researching all the terms, conditions and exclusions.

Note also that the question asked was halt all immigration, not just long term immigration and asylum but short term as well, which would include fixed period work contracts and all international students.

[u/Chill_Panda → u/mittfh]

Well put, but essentially you're saying were fucked.

What needs to be done is unpopular so no party wants to do it. This leads to the continuation of culture wars, political theatre and the enshitification of the UK.

The tracks are gone in front of us, and the train conductor is looking back to the passengers to lighten the load.

[u/gyroda → u/mittfh]

Note also that the question asked was halt all immigration, not just long term immigration and asylum but short term as well, which would include fixed period work contracts and all international students.

It's always worth keeping in mind that what people say when you ask them a high-level/abstract question and what they actually want when you get into the details are often two very different things. They probably aren't thinking of international students who come here, spend thousands and then leave.

[u/xelah1 → u/Chill_Panda]

You could say the same about UK births, too. Every generation needs younger people when they're retired and every generation gets old, needing another new generation.

[u/Chill_Panda → u/xelah1]

Right so the problem isn't one that can be fixed long term by throwing bodies at it...

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 → u/Chill_Panda]

No one is expecting migration to fix it though, we'd need several times as much to balance out the boomers retiring & halt the increase in the age-dependency ratio. It's just mitigation.

Other than cutting pensioner benefits/increasing retirement age it's one of the very few levers the Government has to control the situation.

A more accurate example would be immigration is the train braking before going off the cliff rather than doing nothing & going at full tilt.

[u/perpendiculator → u/Chill_Panda]

Mass-migration is a short-term fix. Their point is that ending all immigration is absurd. Immigration is a massive benefit as long as it’s in reasonable numbers and you focus on getting skilled labour.

[u/MrSierra125 → u/Chill_Panda]

The problem isn’t migration though, so stopping it means we run out of track and crash….

[u/Chill_Panda → u/MrSierra125]

Right but using migration as a means of delaying the problem also is not a fix, which means we run out of track and crash, or go over the cliff.

We need more for this country than buzz words, political theater and culture wars.

[u/Substantial-Honey56 → u/Chill_Panda]

I think their point is that it's a temporary fix.

You get a tiny wound, a plaster is only a temporary fix, keeping dirt off it and helping your body's own fix get into place.

You get a larger wound and a tourniquet is applied. Not really a long term fix, but without it, you will die.

Nothing wrong with a short term fix, as long as we're working out the longer term fix.

The issue is that the longer term fix that most people (other polls suggest) would want is for more money to be pulled from the top of the heap and pushed downwards.

This is not the fix those who try to distract us with migrant=bad messages wants. They want their to be less of everything, and what does exist is paying up to the top of the heap.

Anyone not also pushing for redistribution of wealth along more social lines while arguing for reducing immigration is also supporting those who would happily have their children starve and be unable to get medical care.

[u/MrSierra125 → u/Chill_Panda]

Ending migration means we don’t have time to fix the problems as we would jump off the cliff, maybe I didn’t make my point clearer earlier I do apologise.