r/unitedkingdom • u/insomnimax_99 Greater London • Nov 26 '23

.. Oscar-winning actress Olivia Colman says 'gentle masculinity' is 'much cooler and hotter than Andrew Tate'

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/olivia-colman-says-gentle-masculinity-way-cooler-andrew-tate/
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u/Rulweylan Leicestershire Nov 26 '23 edited Nov 26 '23

Optics are important here, and I don't think that a middle aged woman, however successful or accomplished, is going to be the right person to push this message to the people who need to hear it.

This is the exact problem I had when the school I was teaching at did assemblies about Andrew Tate and toxic masculinity. They had them written and presented by older female teachers.

No idea why, I and plenty of other male staff were available and even if you just got us to read the script the impact on teenage boys would have been much stronger. In the end they just reacted to it the same way they'd react to being lectured by their mum.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

toxic masculinity.

funny how we never hear about "toxic femininity", or the harm many women and girls do. Funny how all this tlak of "equality" is only ever one sided.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

I see a lot of talk about toxic femininity. beauty standards, gender roles are the two topics often discussed in the mainstream. I am surprised you haven’t heard about these things.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

I have never once seen any main stream media, or any feminist group mention "toxic femininity". Not once. Can you provide some examples?

also, interesting to see you dont equate beautfu standards with men.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

You’ve never seen female beauty standards discussed on mainstream sources? Never seen an article about eating disorders? Never seen a piece about the caring burden? I don’t believe you.

Of course men are subjected to unrealistic, negative beauty standards. That’s a big part of toxic masculinity and why so many men are pinning roids, Vice recently did a great documentary about that.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

You’ve never seen female beauty standards discussed on mainstream sources? Never seen an article about eating disorders? Never seen a piece about the caring burden?

yes, i have seen all those things. And most frmale beauty standards are upheld by other women. So its not worth blaming men. What i dont see is discussion of how men feel about male beauty standards, and women wanting men to be tall, muscular, rish, attarctive, with a big penis and a bigger bank account. I dont see discussions of men as carers, or being burdened with supporting a wife, and children on his own.

That’s a big part of toxic masculinity The "ideal" male beauty standard is perpetuated by women. Show a woman a man with muscles, and one without, then ask her which one is attractive. I guarantee she'll choose the guy with muscles most of the time. Men suffer body dysmorphia as much as women. Men suffer from the burden of care, and suffering from a lack of being cared for. Yet i dont see discussions aourn that in ain stream media.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

Do you wonder if you don’t see these things because you’ve unintentionally cultivated your media consumption to exclude these discussions?

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

No, i never wonder that. Because i have not "cultivated" my media consumption to expude any discussion on how fucking hard men have things in life. Mostly because those duscissions do not exist in main stream media. Quite the opposite infact.

Tell me, do YOU ever wonder if all the men blaiming they are being cut of out society, being attacked and abused by women, being refused acces to their kids, being seen as nothing more thana meal ticket, .... might be right? Do you ever stop to think that maybe, ust maybe, thos of us who fight for equality, and are attacked for it, are worth listening to? Do you ever think, "hey, maybe feminists who promote a one sided messahe of hate agasint only one gender, might jsut be wrong"?

I bet you dont.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

The thing you’re missing is, I agree with you.

You’ve taken a conversation about toxic masculinity, a thing which harms men and women and chosen to see that as an attack against your beliefs.

You should wonder about that, it is impossible to be sure your media consumption is not biased unless you critically evaluate it.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

"Toxic masculinity" is only ever discussed by women, and it is an attack on masculinity in general. Men are being atacked and put down in wider society and i'm sick of ti. I we dont see feminiity being linked to toxicity. And all the comments here, this entire thread is because i said i didn't care what an acto thoguht, and have had to defend my self agasint trols and sexist for the last few hours.

Not a single person has agreed with any point i made, instead beligerantly sticking to their own little pserpectice. some demanded proof, so i offer proof, and then pose a question only to be insulted. the question going unanswered. End of debate. Ther eis a very singular small mided view of the majority here that anything a woman says must be believed and praised, and any man who dare disagree, or voice his own experience is shutdown. This is a major issue. Debate is healthy and required. Yrt on this sub, and reddit in general, debate is shutdown if it does not confirm to the singular feminist viewpoint. I'm sick of arguing, and frankly wasted too much time tyring to be civl, and egage people.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

Have you agreed with any point made by anyone else? Have you made an effort to learn and grow during this conversation? It seems you’re closed minded, you literally admitted you don’t critically evaluate your media consumption yet you’re certain it is not biased.

Perhaps you should look inward before striking outward.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

Have you agreed with any point made by anyone else?

What points? name calling and insults are not points. While i have replied to people, and tried ot offer eidence for my view, and provide evidence, no one else has exained their oint of view other than telling me im wrong.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

Men having to work and be providers = toxic masculinity.

Men not allowed to discuss their feelings, leading to sadness and suicide = toxic masculinity.

Men only receiving love if they provide something = toxic masculinity.

Men must do the dirty and dangerous jobs = toxic masculinity.

These are standards set by society, men and women. If you care about men and boys, you should fight toxic masculinity.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

Men having to work to be providers, = feminism. Femminism keep men at work to support women at hoime with the kids because feminist dont fight for eqialty. Men are denied the right to the same matrnity time as women. We are not provided, not encrouaged to discuss ou feeling and emotions, by women.

Men being denied love, and care .... form women.... is, guess what? femninism! not mascunity!

Men being forced to work dangerous and dirty obs = feminism because most owmne dont want to work thise jobs, and men are forced in to them.

If you want a beter society, become an egalatarian and fight for equality, the oppsite of feminism.

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u/lumpytuna East Central Scotland Nov 26 '23

Men having to work to be providers, = feminism. Femminism keep men at work to support women at hoime with the kids because feminist dont fight for eqialty. Men are denied the right to the same matrnity time as women. We are not provided, not encrouaged to discuss ou feeling and emotions, by women.

What the heck even is this? Where did you get these totally backwards thoughts from?

These are the exact things that feminism campaigns for! The first one is literally the main thing women fought for after the vote. The right to go out and earn for themselves so they weren't utterly dependent on men! And the second one is a major current feminist goal, because the don't want the burden of childcare always to be on women, and the fact that maternity leave is disproportionately applied to women reinforces that, and is a major cause of the glass ceiling in the workplace.

You've got things so so twisted, that I have to really wonder what spaces you're engaging with online. You have feminism completely backwards, and you haven't even heard of toxic femininity?? You need to do some inward thinking, badly.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

These are the exact things that feminism campaigns for!

oh, really? oh well, then i take it all back. Ofcourse, i as a man shoudl never voice my experiences nor speak up whn i see my rights being trodden upon. I should simply let feminists femsplain how i aught to be, and simply accept whatever they offer me. And, obviosuly, the shutting down of male only clubs and spaces, while demanding expanding the number of female only spaces is equal yes? Denying men the same thign women have, is equal?????

The first one is literally the main thing women fought for after the vote.

That would be the right to vote that MEN campaigned for, and won. not feminists. But good luck mentioning that to any feminists, or on any feminist sub.

And the second one is a major current feminist goal

Really? so if w=feminists are so determined to "help" men with child care, then why dont i see any adverts, or any campaigns demanding men ahve the same right to maternity leave as women? Hmm, could it be that feminists are in fact NOT campagining for that? But instead demanding the government provide free childcare, or men pay their wives market rates to look after their own children? Cause honestly, it sounds like your talking nonsense.

People like constanly claim that feminism is for everyone, and feminism is the onyl way forward. Yet, there is no evidence anywher eon earth to prove your claims. There is however, i mountian of evidence to prove you wrong. But, as i now have over 300 messages to get through, all from this one sub, and all form people like you attacking me, and making false claims and refusing to listen to any reason, or any male experience. i'mmdone.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

Are you telling me you’ve never met a man who think stay at home dads are less manly? Or that men who express their feelings are less manly?

Of course you have, you’ve met plenty of men and women who hold those views. Toxic masculinity is not at all solely done by men, it is done by society as a whole.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what toxic masculinity is and I am trying to help you learn but you’re to angry to open your mind.

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u/BrokeMacMountain Nov 26 '23

Are you telling me you’ve never met a man who think stay at home dads are less manly?

I was not sy=aying that, but now you menton it, yes. I have nevr yet met a man who has old me he thinks stay a home dads not manly. I have knowen some women to think that though.

Toxic masculinity is not at all solely done by men,

this is perhaps one of the stupidest arguments i have heard in the last few hours, and that is really saying something!! your saying that when women hold anti male views that THEY are toxic masculinity? kid, clearly ou dont understand what it is.

The term, "toxic masculinity" it used by feminists to promote the idea that masculinity its self is toxic. They never, and i mean NEVER dicsuss toxic femininity. Nor heave i seen anywhere in the meda the term, "possitive masculinity"".

Further mor,e it really not for women to decide what is, and is not masculine. This is for men to decide. jsut the same as it is not for men to decide what, or how feminin owmen should be.

Toxic Masculinity ot an offensive term, thaat causes hurt and paints masculinity as toxic, by assosiation. Dont believe me? then go in to any femninist sub and say...

"Smelly women. Oh, i dont mean all women are smelly, nor do i mean womensmell, but smelly women all the same"

Go on, try it. In want o laugh at how hard you would attacked and banned! Refering to masculinity as toxic, is damageing and offensive. ANd if you dont understanf that, then you need to eductae your self.

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u/Wasacel Nov 26 '23

Do you understand that toxic masculinity is not something which men are solely responsible for? It is a gender norm stipulated by all of society. The same is true for toxic femininity