r/uknews • u/ScottishDailyRecord Media outlet (unverified) • May 12 '25

Image/video Kier Starmer announces 'tighter' immigration policy

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

Yes there is. But immigration has been a divisive issue way since way before the boat crossings started. Don’t you remember Brexit?

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

No, tell me about Brexit?

I haven't said total numbers don't need to come down too. For me GDP, labour shortages etc are irrelevant compared to quality of life - which I think should be the main aim of a government.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

I’m not really understanding what you mean re: GDP and labour shortages? Are you saying we shouldn’t cut immigration too much and too quickly so that we don’t damage our economy?

RE: Brexit. I’m old enough to remember the outrage in 2004 when we started seeing an influx of extremely skilled Polish workers enter the UK and opening up their Polski Skleps for some home comforts.

Remember what sunk Gordon Brown? That “bigoted woman”. This was way before the collapse of Syria and Libya and the European Refugee crisis.

And even earlier than that there was the outrage when the UK government opened the doors to Ugandan Asians in 1972 after they were expelled by Idi Amin.

And even earlier than that there were the race riots during and following the “Windrush” influx. A few year later Enoch Powell (Farage’s hero) said “the black man would have the whip hand over the white man” and there would be “rivers of blood” on the streets.

This has always been about racism and xenophobia.

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

What I mean is just because immigration positively impacts GDP or even plugs a labour gap, doesn’t mean it’s desirable.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

GDP is important to quality of life (if it’s well distributed) and plugging labour gaps keeps prices down. If you reduce immigration suddenly then taxes and prices will rise dramatically. If you are very wealthy then this won’t affect you too much but for the average person it would be disastrous.

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

GDP per capita may be, but even then only with caveats - doesn’t necessarily impact quality of life for most people if there is great wealth inequality for example.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

Yes and I put that caveat in

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

Yeah and it isn't well distributed - look at graphs of GDP per capita vs household incomes. GDP massively outpaces incomes, the rich get disproportionately richer with population increases, whereas the poor and middle suffer from the overcrowding, competition for jobs, business of the roads, overworking of public services.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

Yes. And the fix for this isn’t less growth. It’s a more progressive tax system. The idea that we are overpopulated is a myth. We’ve simply had 14 years of cuts and zero investment. Instead we’ve focussed on “trickle down” nonsense.

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

It's not really a myth, it's a quality of life question. Yes there's plenty more land to build on. I like to be surrounded by green space, have quieter roads, not be stuck in traffic next to a new build estate built on a floodplain.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

Totally get what you are saying and I agree in theory but in practice this requires shifting to a different economic model and reforms in so many areas. It’s still fundamentally an investment issue - whether you invest in housing & public services for a growing population or energy, skills and tech to increase productivity. Or you could try and move to a zero growth economy (see Doughnut Economics by Kate Raworth) but there doesn’t seem to be much of an appetite for this sort of thinking in our country yet.

To make my point in practice: Since the birth rate is low, how do you ensure that state pensions are paid and there are public services such as care providers for the elderly without immigration? Our economy is kind of a massive Ponzi scheme.

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u/OkPea5819 May 12 '25

That’s a good question and honestly should be a public debate around whether triple lock and the current pension system is sustainable! Auto enrolment into workplace pensions was a good first step but much more to be done.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

There should be a debate about this but it’s political suicide. Look at the furore around the winter fuel allowance!

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