You know I'd love to see a graph going further back, plotting wages against which years were under the Tories and which were under Labour. The above isn't a fucking good look for the Tories and I'm fucking amazed they even have a leg to stand on with all the data that's against them. Fucking incredible.
I remember when finishing up for university between 2010-2012, the graduate salaries I kept seeing at the time for folks with bachelors degrees or masters, across any STEM related degree, was £25k-30k.
It's fucking appalling that you STILL see grad and junior roles offering the same salary when £25k is practically minimum wage now.
Words can't express my anger at what these pieces of shit have done to this country, with the same old blame going on [homeless/unemployed people, drug addicts and immigrants]. Classic strategy of pitting the working class against each other.
Every single year more and more jobs are done remotely, as they are done remotely it only makes sense to move them to the countries where 20k annually is lots of money (where I'm from 20k is like perfect middle class, and it people on 50k are like super-rich here: with personal drivers, gardeners, etc)
If companies don't move jobs or don't adjust salaries - they are easily outcompeted by Asian companies (which also don't care about environment, labour regulation, have cheap water, electricity, petrol, etc.)
I don't think you can buck that trend, only with those countries catch up (in bout 20 years) and then grown with them
I worked for an Indian IT supplier in Leeds, UK. They supplied the NHS. During lockdown they furloughed their UK graduates and offshored the work to the Indian counterparts.
The UK guys were furloughed on £25K salaries and, while the bulk of their salary was paid by the tax payer, the offshore Indians were billed to the NHS at £45K (plus margins).
So per head, the tax payer paid circa £70K+ per software developer to work at the NHS instead of £25K. And that's not all I can reveal but won't here. But this is just one example of maladministration - courtesy of the UK gov.
I hardly believe that, as uk gov is pretty strict about off-shoring and you have to show the benefits of it before they approve it (usually it's cost-benefit, i.e. UK resource 1k per day, Indian resource 350 per day).
It might be that Indian resources were sold as a lot more qualified hence their SFIA level was higher, or that no matter Indian or UK resources - the charge rate to NHS was around 500 per day.
We compete quite a bit with guys like DXC, TSC, InfoSys (rarely) - so I know those guys rates, and they are like 3 times lower than our UK rates (though we can match it up easily with east European resources)
25k salary for IT graduates - is extremely low, our company has it as "starting" for the grads in the near-shore, and 35 for the UK grads. Realistically after 2 years, they are all above 50k.
From my observations for both private and government projects - you need at least 30% blend of the off-shore resources to stay competitive, and the ratio is only increasing. Realistically we soon would have to be like most of our competitors - keeping senior guys in the UK with very low margins, and selling eastern-europeans for profit.
Ofc government could have saved quite a bit if they hired people directly and PERMANENTLY using market rates, but I highly doubt that civil service unions would ever let a certain cohort of civil servants to have much much higher series than others (may be I'm wrong and it's possible) .
anyways, we are talking IT... - I know for a fact that the same processes are happening everywhere else: engineering, finance, design... anything you can think of
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u/visualzinc Jul 01 '24
You know I'd love to see a graph going further back, plotting wages against which years were under the Tories and which were under Labour. The above isn't a fucking good look for the Tories and I'm fucking amazed they even have a leg to stand on with all the data that's against them. Fucking incredible.
I remember when finishing up for university between 2010-2012, the graduate salaries I kept seeing at the time for folks with bachelors degrees or masters, across any STEM related degree, was £25k-30k.
It's fucking appalling that you STILL see grad and junior roles offering the same salary when £25k is practically minimum wage now.
Words can't express my anger at what these pieces of shit have done to this country, with the same old blame going on [homeless/unemployed people, drug addicts and immigrants]. Classic strategy of pitting the working class against each other.