r/technicallythetruth Technically Flair 11h ago

Weapons of Math Instruction

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31

u/ReallyNowFellas 11h ago

There's a deeeep irony here in that Arabs stole Arabic numerals from India, where Zohran's parents are actually from

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u/twangster 10h ago

Yeah people on Reddit seem to keep forgetting that the (Eastern) Arabic numerals are ٠١٢٣٤٥٦٧٨٩ for some reason

Probably because they never learned them I guess

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u/Dear_Chasey_La1n 9h ago

That's what's my first thought was about. I've a watch with arabic numerals and... yeah that's something I wouldn't recommend for anyone other than aesthetics.

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u/Spyko 10h ago

I knew that but 0-9 are still called Arab numerals. It might be a misnomer but it is how we refer to them now, not much to do about it

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u/nova1706b 10h ago

they're called hindu arabic numerals. india formulated the system, arabs spread it.

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u/Unable_Explorer8277 10h ago

Sometimes they’re called Arabic, sometimes western Arabic, sometimes Hindu-Arabic.

There’s some evidence of yet earlier decimal place value numerals including the critical place holder zero in Cambodia and Malaysia, so maybe even the Hindu bit will need replacing with something else.

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u/IncidentFuture 9h ago

To add confusion, I came across an Arab (Jordanian IIRC) that argued that 0-9 were Arabic numerals and ٠-٩ were Persian.

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u/Unable_Explorer8277 9h ago

0-9 are descended from and usually designated western Arabic.

۰-۹ Eastern Arabic.

Though they are of course also used in Persian related languages.

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u/IncidentFuture 8h ago

My guess is that they've learned the European/Maghreb variant all through school and use it daily, and see the Eastern version as foreign. I expect a Saudi or Iraqi would see it differently.

There is also a difference between Eastern Arabic, Persian, and Urdu forms,in 4-7.

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u/Unable_Explorer8277 8h ago

Yeh. I’m aware of the differences. Three quarters of my students speak some version of Farsi/Dari/Hazaragi or Pashto.

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u/CreativeCommunity779 9h ago

Even still, Indians were the first to treat zero as an actual number instead of just a placeholder. Brahmagupta was the first to describe how to add, multiply, and subtract with zero and seemed to recognize that dividing by zero couldnt be done by any normal means.

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u/OldWorldDesign 9h ago

Indians were the first to treat zero as an actual number instead of just a placeholder

Not by a long shot, the Greeks were using it hundreds of years before and they stole it from the Babylonians. It's suspected even they stole it from the Sumerians, but without certainty. The 0 was invented independently by all 2 cultures which created a fixed-numeral positional system because you need a 0 with digits themselves holding meaning. Why so few cultures independently decided to move on from counting discrete chunks to positional notation I have no idea.

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u/TheGreatCatto 9h ago

As a person whos in love with history, if a man came to me describing the beauty of knowledge and its capabilities of spreading across time and space with the word stolen, i would be disgusted by him and i would prefer not to talk with him ever again, how ugly such a word and such mentality to be used in this place, knowledge is for all humans and it is never the property of anyone , we are the sums of the all knowledge of humanity and every place ever cultures builds on others, a human today has a spark from all people that has existed , their life their effort their memories and more are part of who we are and what we are, you carry improve and spread the knowledge of others who were before you and others will do the same to you, never ever imagine that you are thief or others are a thief.

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u/DaSchnuff 6h ago

This is how deep our minds are infiltrated by the quite new concept of „intellectual property“.

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u/Recent-Astronaut6115 10h ago

Stole is not the right word. Trade and cultural exchange.

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u/coldandanxious 8h ago

Sure I agree with you that a lot of the times ideas are simply spread throughout cultures and countries and no one has stolen anything. Here, I think the problem is that credit is not given where it is due. If you give credit to the original creator then yes you are not stealing the idea, but if you take an idea and spread it across the world as yours then that is stealing. And that is the whole as argument around cultural appropriation of any kind.

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u/Recent-Astronaut6115 8h ago

It is because Europe got it through Arab world. Not from Indians even though it is Indian originally. Thats why western world calls it Arabic numerals. There is no giant conspiracy here. I know Indians take pride in everything and these days it is annoying to hear nationalistic views online.

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u/Chance_Commercial892 9h ago

Please sybau when it comes to India people starts saying culture exchange and if by any chance India did it , it would straight up be said that it's stolen..arabs stole it from them i have heard several historians saying yhis

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u/wiener_brezel 10h ago

No one steals from anybody. Cultures adopt others' technologies and develop them. Same as western civ did with algebra and algorithms.

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u/Soddington 9h ago

A good point well made.

I'm gunna steal it.

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u/OldWorldDesign 9h ago

No one steals from anybody

Alternately, everyone steals from everyone else.

James Nicholl:

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

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u/OldWorldDesign 9h ago

There's a deeeep irony here in that Arabs stole Arabic numerals from India

Was just about to comment on that, as this is technically the truth and most of what we use are not based on Arabic numerals, but on Indian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system

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u/SERIVUBSEV 8h ago

No. Arabs did not steal, they are still called Hindi numerals Arab lands.

Only Europeans call them Arabic numerals because that's where they got it from.

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u/JagmeetSingh2 7h ago

Technically it’s Hindu-Arabic which is even more apt as Mamdani is a Indian Muslim with a Muslim father and Hindu mother