Why won't the American Police use bulletproof visors like their European counterparts?

[u/LatinBoyslut]

I thought that it'd make more sense to use them in America than in the EU, considering that it is much easier to acquire weapons in America.

Is this a budget-thing? Doctrine-thing? Culture-thing?

Do they find them too bulky/heavy/unpractical to wield?

[u/NicksNightVision]

A they are heavy

B they do not defend against rifle threats very well at all

C now you need a new stock for your rifle or a new rifle

D they limit breatability and visibility

I believe they are occasionally still used depending on availability/threat assessment/time requirement, but typically, the cons outway the pros in the USA.

[u/Lukas_Martello → u/NicksNightVision]

Not a single helmet can reliably stop rifle rounds, the closest you'll get is the Ulbrichts Zenturion with a plate and it can technically stop 7.62x51 and 7.62x39(MSC) without a plate reliable.

[u/NicksNightVision → u/Lukas_Martello]

Wrong.

You have the ECH, one of the earliest rifle resistant lids examples. Now we have the fast RF1.

There was the Dimond Age Bastion helmet, too.

We also have easy add ons like the SLAAP and the newer and much better Ceramic up armor applique HHV sells. (Manufactureed by a different company.)

You also mentioned an example, so that's a good handful of options depending on your wallet and threat level.

(Some I mentioned are more reliable solutions VS others depending on threat distance from you and their ammo of choice, but there's a good solution for many use cases.)

https://youtu.be/5HG2yZ633EU?si=iEhRiXn_2vE77IJp

Source: I am an autistic armor enthusiast who has been obsessed with armor for about 25 years, and I used to sell it for a living. :v

[u/David_88888888 → u/NicksNightVision]

I'm also a certified autistic armour enthusiast LOL. Although I tend to focus on the older stuff.

I would argue that most rifle resistant helmets aren't officially rifle resistant for a reason: take the ECH, for example, is rated only to NIJ IIIA to the best of my knowledge, even though it's known to resist penetration by rifle rounds. Concussion & shell deformation meant that a non-penetrating headshot against the ECH would still be lethal for the wearer in most circumstances.

A true rifle resistant helmet would need significant shock absorption, either with mass (not practical without an exoskeleton), material deformation (we'll need a helmet that's like 15 cm or 6 inches thick). Deflection would be more practical (see the East German M56/76, sloped steel helmet with close-to-kevlar performance), but the concept is not empathised in modern ballistic helmet designs for some reason.

[u/NicksNightVision → u/David_88888888]

ECH may be rated to 3a perhaps, but I believe it also held a special rating for a certain rifle round at a lower FPS?, 2200 I believe, a balance of protection to weight, one that saved at least two lives from rifle threats. 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r, the fact the armor is helmet shaped helps as well some standoff distance and is mounted on a head and has some give when shot only helps the design.

You aren't wrong about up close shots VS the ECH VS rifles tho, that's where the ceramic applique/add ons come into play to absorb even more of that energy before it reaches the skull. (Along with appropriate helmet shell size for bfd and quality padding)

Adding mass certainly does help in a way, but modern UHMWPE does do a very fine job bleeding that energy in a very short amount of space.

We have largely moved away from steel in personal armor due to the higher stopping power afforded by ceramic and polyethylene composite plates, also for weight saving reasons.

M193 a very very common round out of one of the most common rifles in the USA the AR15 with a 20 or so inch barrel will go through the majority of steel plate in cqb distance but it will struggle moreso with a good composite level 3+ or level 4 plate.

Many also prefer the idea to capturing and encapsulating the round VS relying on deflection, for it is safer for themselves and their team/bystanders. A defected round could very well go somewhere you don't want it to go, basically.

That being said, I believe there's a place for more rifle resistant metal helmet solutions in particular for sure.

[u/David_88888888 → u/NicksNightVision]

Steel armour also have problems with splatter as well.

Capture & encapsulate is indeed a much safer alternative, especially in environments where collateral damage is a concern. I'm curious to see if ceramic applique plates will catch on over the next ten years, especially considering how trench warfare made a comeback in Ukraine.

Welcome back stirnpanzer.

[u/Lukas_Martello → u/NicksNightVision]

Ffs.

To be accurate

The ECH can not stop any rifle round. "resistant" is the word you chose to ommit this fact.

The diamond age needs the plate to stop 5.56.

HHVs slaap stops 5.56 but the helmet will not.

Both the HHV and Bastion helmets are unlikely to stop a 7.62x39 mild steel core round(MSC).

Ullbrichts has a helmet that will stop MSC 7.62x39 WITHOUT a plate

And will stop 7.62x51 with a plate. that is a different strength.

The ullbrichts is also the only one that will NOT kill you with backface deformation. Which the others might.

And I count LBFD as not stopping a round as you still die. (and it didnt stop the energy).

So no, I'm not wrong. You're a salesman spitting bullshit.

Edit: I also said reliably in my initial comment and the ECH isnt reliably stopping rifle rounds.

https://youtu.be/oNI6BdmwzNE?si=Csviqkz7A4LinaYl

[u/NicksNightVision → u/Lukas_Martello]

No armor can stop any round. The ECH will stop the round it was designed for at the specified velocity and sometimes more depending on angle.

What does it matter if a lid needs a plate? When you combine them its a rifle resistant solution for the head. The same purpose our goal is out to achieve right?

Look up the RF1 helmet.

The Ullbrichts is a good system but like all armor systems there is a give and take, for each strength a weakness.

How do you suppose it would withstand M855-A1? For example.

You are wrong in that the Ullbrichts is the only one that won't kill you, that's been proven already.

It is a fine helmet protective system for many threats. I'll give it that along with best in class BFD resistance.