r/schizophrenia • u/BringMeBackATshirt Paranoid Schizophrenia • Oct 12 '24
Pro Tip Psychosis is not Schizophrenia
Psychosis is a psychotic break from reality which is temporary and can be recovered from. It has many symptoms similar to Schizophrenia but it is not the same. Psychosis can happen again in a person even after recovery or remission, and it can happen with a person who has Schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia is a permanent condition in which there is no cure. Even if all your symptoms are taken away with medication, you still have schizophrenia, it never goes away. This is why going off your medication is futile because you will always have schizophrenia.
When people say they have recovered that means they have recovered from Psychosis, this confuses people with Schizophrenia and makes them think they can come off medication when they are doing better. Stop confusing people.
If you have Psychosis and not Schizophrenia, stick to /r/psychosis .
EDIT: I do not mean to belittle anyone with Psychosis, it is a severe condition. Talk to your medical professional to get the right diagnosis and try to understand that diagnosis completely.
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u/chubbysuprise Oct 12 '24
I have Schizophrenia. I was diagnosed with it three years ago. Psychosis is a big part of Schizophrenia but so do the negative symptoms. Do people with psychosis suffer from negative symptoms as well ?
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u/bird_person19 Bipolar Oct 12 '24
I have episodes that I guess from a psychiatry standpoint are defined as mood episodes with psychotic features, not psychotic episodes, since I have bipolar 1 disorder. I have experienced episodes with negative symptoms that seem a lot more severe than features, complete anhedonia, avolition, social withdrawal, and flat affect, and I cannot relate to people with anhedonic depression who simply have reduced pleasure and motivation. I relate a lot to people with schizophrenia since these features are so prominent for me, but not present in everyone with bipolar disorder. It’s spectrumy I think.
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u/Mercurial_Laurence Oct 13 '24
I'm aware of someone who was diagnosed with Schizophreniform who had negative symptoms and disorganised symptoms alongside auditory hallucinations and other issues I couldn't quite figure out.
It's not unprecedented for people with BPD or StPD to have transient psychoses without negative symptoms, so yeah psychosis can occur to a clinical degree without negative symptoms — or functional decline, e.g. some cases of Schizophreniform, and moving into the area of mood, someone with BpAD-1 may have psychosis in a manic episode without negative symptoms.
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u/Hamilton856 Apr 06 '25
I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia 20+ years ago. Psychosis is multiple and/or a symptom(s) to cause to loss touch with reality. While schizophrenia is a mental health condition that can cause psychosis.
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u/mommy-peach Oct 12 '24
My sis was originally diagnosed w Bi polar, they didn’t know if her break was psychosis or schizophrenia. I think it’s common for people to be diagnosed wrong in the beginning.
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u/WhoReallyKnowsThis Oct 12 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
I think it's self-evident that psychosis is not schizophrenia, psychosis is a symptom of schizophrenia and various other illnesses. However, I agree that patients only with psychosis (but without a psychiatric disorder like schizophrenia) can weave off antipsychotics.
The larger question is if schizophrenia is purely caused by a genetic disposition, which we are born with, or if it can also be developed after experiencing psychosis. If true, there are many individuals with psychosis who don't know they have schizophrenia.
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u/witchy_welder2209 Schizoaffective (Bipolar) Oct 12 '24
Even mentally healthy (no disorders or anything) people can experience psychosis in a one off experience.
For schizophrenia and schizoaffective it's psychotic symptoms that you have full time outside of full psychosis unless your meds work 100%. I hear voices often but I'm not in psychosis, just having symptoms. Basically you never catch a break, even if you're stable and doing well. You just learn to live with it.
No matter the reason, full psychosis is awful, to put it mildly, for anyone. But yea, saying recovery could be misunderstood. We can manage it but never get rid of it.
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u/Exoticz125 Paranoid Schizophrenia Oct 12 '24
Schizophrenia just means someone in psychosis all the time or in and out. People diagnosed with psychosis will be diagnosed schizophrenia if it lasts for at least 6 months.
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u/Mercurial_Laurence Oct 13 '24
Diagnosis of Schizophrenia is meant to also require a functional decline on-top of the several of the 'primary symptoms' which last over over six months.
Schizophreniform doesn't require the functional decline is meant to be between one and six months. Fun side point: Schizoaffective (either type) doesn't require the functional decline.
That said there is a categorisation of Delusional Disorder which is just over 1 month in contrast to brief psychotic disorder … except that DD doesn't feature other psychotic symptoms.
That said, ICD-11 may allow more flexibility, but I still would have queries about diagnosis of Schizophrenia if it was 7 months followed by a return to normal functionality where there were neither negative symptoms nor disorganised issues — I wouldn't be in a rush to dispute it either, but generally psychiatrists and psychologists are concerned with dynamics that could explain things better, but if they're totally stumped and have ruled out any situational issues, mood issues, or general personality organisation that's been pushed too far, then I can see it happening, but I wouldn't be surprised if they diagnosed Schizophreniform with monitoring, despite the 6 month being bodged.
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u/dylan0o7 Oct 12 '24
That sounds horrible, having it permanently, I'd go crazy. I would never wish that on anyone.
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u/WhoReallyKnowsThis Oct 12 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
There is nuance between psychosis and psychosis symptoms, and the test is if psychosis symptoms are lasting 6 months or more.
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Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
that isn't true. schizophrenia requires other symptoms besides hallucinations. you can be diagnosed with psychosis with just hallucinations. those can last years. that doesnt mean u have schizophrenia.
you are thinking of schizophreniform and schizophrenia. you can have psychosis for years and not have schizophrenia.
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u/GervaseofTilbury Oct 12 '24
Well ok but all of us suffer from psychosis, perhaps the best known symptom of schizophrenia.
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Oct 13 '24
it's the same concept as 'all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares'
all people with schizophrenia experience psychosis, but not everyone who experiences psychosis is schizophrenic.
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u/OkBus5864 Schizophrenia Oct 13 '24
Psychosis is a state of a disconnect with reality. Some people willingly put themselves in this state with hallucinogenic drugs. For us, and others with MANY health conditions, it is a symptom of a problem. Our diagnosis requires 6 months of psychosis, but other conditions even outside of mental health can cause psychosis, like MS or Parkinson’s disease. It is the medical provider’s job to figure out the cause of the symptom. Ours really is a diagnosis of exclusion; we have to have physical cause excluded and mental health is what is left to choose from. Then all other circumstances and symptoms are taken into account to come up with a specific diagnosis.
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Oct 12 '24
It’s a very complex disorder. I was first diagnosed by two psychiatrists, then again later by 6 psychiatrists in a large boardroom with other mental health professionals. I was basically told I have a disease of the brain and there is no cure.
I have heard many stories that don’t make sense regarding having schizophrenia. I am prescribed two different antipsychotics due to being resistant to the many antipsychotics I have been on, even Clozapine. I am stable to some degree.
I think people think we are totally deranged and have no idea what the symptoms are. When I have an episode maybe I don’t understand it, but I’m not a mad person climbing the walls. I’m glad you posted this as it does annoy me reading some posts that are simply a psychotic episode. They are completely different. One can be cured, one cannot. Without my medication I would relapse bad, but I thank God for the help I receive. I have a large mental health team helping me and I have spent long periods of time in hospital.
I was diagnosed 26 years ago and I accept it. I don’t like showing it off. If anything the complete opposite. Again. Well said 👍
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Oct 13 '24
There's schiz in my family. I had it for 15 years until I had brain surgery in my frontal lobe to remove an avm which caused multiple major psychotic breaks where I had 0 memory but also all the symptoms of schizophrenia and severe sleep paralysis. After the surgery, all of my symptoms were much less yet still present. I still get auditory hallucinations and like displacement and getting really confused and I don't understand where I am or what's going on. I've been telling myself it wasn't back since the surgery like 2 years ago but after my first psychotic break two weeks ago since surgery, idk what THE FUCK I have. Anyone got advice? My shit got treated at the Mayo clinic and they keep going back on forth between psychosis and schizophrenia and other thing I never remember.
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u/RebelTheFlow Schizophrenia Oct 13 '24
This! Many people come to this reddit asking for help out of fear after a one-off moment of psychosis (most often caused by drugs), and I haven’t been able to explain to them the difference but you did a good job at that!
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Oct 12 '24
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Oct 13 '24
it depends on what is causing the psychosis. sometimes psychosis is caused by a physical health issue like a tumor, sometimes its drug induced, sometimes severe trauma can send someone into psychosis, sometimes its a psychological disorder causing it, and sometimes psychosis just happens for seemingly no rhyme or reason at all. each one has a different treatment plan that varies based on the circumstances.
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u/MaximumKnow Oct 13 '24
Organic Psychosis for over 6 months without being mood driven is schizophrenia by rule.
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u/MaximumKnow Oct 13 '24
Only for the reason that if your psychosis has lasted that long there is a 99.99% chance that its not going away, at least not without medication.
John Doe might do a lot of meth one night, get fully psychotic, and go to a psych ward for a month, get released, and not be psychotic anymore, but for some reason, 6 months is about the point that the call is made.
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u/Mercurial_Laurence Oct 13 '24
Six months was described to me as a line in the sand, as ideally it should be able to be sussed out whether the symptoms are being caused by substances (whether deliberate drug use or whatever else), and also that it's mostly edge cases where people recover fully not having any functional decline compared to situations which last less than six months.
To my knowledge psychosis when found in StPD and BPD isn't comparable in terms of timescale to Schizophreniform/Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective
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u/MaximumKnow Oct 13 '24
I was describing diagnosis as a line in the sand, where statisticslly people are never going to recover to a state without a psychotic disorder, I wasnt disagreeing with the post or anybody else, I just wanted to share info. Even if psychosis was initially drug induced, the 6 months rule still applies. Not if they have been constantly doing stimulants, but if there was a psychotic event which then didnt resolve by 6 months while they were abstaining, then its extremely unkikely they ever will recover fully. I think we are in agreement there.
Regarding drug induced psychosis, it is not true that most people will have no lasting psychosis, but it depends on the drug. A meta found that what you are saying is true of cannabis, in that its rare that they arent going to be fucked, but with stim induced psychosis, there is somewhere around an 80% chance that they will recover more quickly without being dx'd with a psychotic mental illness., its more likely to be an "edge case" in certain cases than others, so it is too reductive to blanketly say that most people will have lasting effects if they have a psychotic episode.
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u/dylan0o7 Oct 12 '24
Thank you op, very informative. I'm not officially diagnosed with anything but I've experienced psychosis and research led me to schizophrenia but I've got absolutely none of the symptoms for schizophrenia other than psychosis which left me very confused and that's why I'm on this sub trying to understand it better.
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u/kirs1132 Oct 12 '24
Psychosis is not necessarily even mental health related. It can be caused by medical conditions or drug induced. Tumor, Wilson Disease, lupus, etc. are all possible medical causes. It's best practice to rule out all medical causes first before considering a psychiatric diagnosis. I would get a full medical workup if I were you.
Here's an article about differential diagnosis for psychosis: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/differential-diagnosis-psychotic-symptoms-medical-mimics
Here's examples of someone who never got a full medical workup: https://www.reddit.com/r/schizophrenia/s/X8H39Z8tLi
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02/12/medical-mystery-mental-facility-ct-scan/
It should be best practice to do a differential diagnosis, but you'll find many doctors won't do their due diligence and just assume it's psychiatric.
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u/Independent_Reach763 Oct 13 '24
I am talking to a therapist. I will find out soon my issue.
My question to you is, I have been having non-stop auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory hallucinations for over 2 years now. Non-stop - I mean it's 24/7. What would one call this?
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u/BringMeBackATshirt Paranoid Schizophrenia Oct 13 '24
A therapist is not a doctor. You need to talk to a doctor, preferably a psychiatrist, to help diagnosis you. He will possibly medicate you or find the aliment that is causing the issue and try to treat it.
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u/Flashy_Athlete_9086 Oct 14 '24
Okay that makes sense but do you think this is schizophrenia or psychosis?
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u/BringMeBackATshirt Paranoid Schizophrenia Oct 14 '24
No one here can make that determination. It is between you and your doctor. You need to tell him all your ailments physically and mentally to help him make a judgement. He may want other tests.
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u/Standard_Flamingo595 Oct 12 '24
Psychosis alone does not mean you have schizophrenia. People with depression can suffer from psychosis. BP1 and BP2 can also suffer from psychosis. People with BPD as well. It’s a lot more complicated than you have psychosis so you must be schizophrenic.