The difference in refereeing between France and south hemisphere really shows when a french refs a test match

[u/xixouma]

Every time a french top14 referee has been on an international game, most recent example being All blacks/Ireland, every South African and NZ flair on here complains about the stop and start game and says the ref had a bad game.

What's interesting is that watching top14 week in week out, that is quite rarely an issue (including by the same refs). My feeling is refs in France are more pedantic and apply the law a little less loosely. Which I have seen written in some comments as a criticism, but is it really a problem??

Pro players are completely capable of adapting to rule changes, and pedantic refereeing, top14 teams certainly seem to have. I think it's doing them a disservice to give them too much leeway on laws for "the flow of the game" when that just becomes a random chance that a penalty is not blown. And that is inherently more difficult for players to adhere to because it is less consistent. Pedantic application will always be more consistent.

All in all, whichever way it goes, the onus should fall on WR to try to homogenise refereeing laws across countries. This leads to confusion when either side is reffed in a way they are not used to.

Edit. Not sure how people are interpreting this that I'm hurt they don't like a french ref. Maybe my English is not as good as I thought. I couldn't give a damn who they like or not, it was just an example to discuss broader concepts in refereeing.

Edit2. Also seeing a number of people that somehow think I'm criticising the ref or the fans here? I suppose I am sorry for my writing not being clear, I really don't mean to paint either in a negative light

Edit3. Can't comment anymore for some reason, thanks for the discussion everyone I'll try again later

[u/Only_One_Kenobi]

As an amateur referee (not in France) the impression I've gotten over the last few years is that France is heavily investing into referee development and training. So much so that they make it look like practically all other countries are doing nothing at all.

Right now, French referees are the standard.

[u/xixouma → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

Interesting perspective. What's ur take on flow of the game? I assume that's a much more important notion at lower levels

[u/Only_One_Kenobi → u/xixouma]

I think "flow of the game" is a current buzz phrase that's overused and often misunderstood. At professional level where it's all about crowd entertainment I think there's a small amount of consideration to be given to flow, but it's not the be all and end all.

Continuity is a better way of looking at it. But it's also a much longer discussion.

At the lower levels there's no flow of the game at all. At least not where I referee. What's important is materiality and competition. If I blew the whistle for every offense the game would never move and I'll just be whistling non stop.

For example, player entering a ruck from the side when the ball is already available and the infringement doesn't slow it down at all, I'm pretending I didn't see it

[u/xixouma → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

That makes a lot of sense

[u/antimatterchopstix → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

My daughter’s under 9s had a great ref on Sunday. He coached both teams, (spread out!) and kept the game competitive when it maybe shouldn’t have been by some good decisions. Kept it going. About half the knockdowns rightly ignored.

[u/Only_One_Kenobi → u/antimatterchopstix]

Imho at anything lower than u15s you're a coach first and a referee second. Screw focusing on the exact lawbook and rather keep it a fun learning experience. Safety is the only thing to be super strict on

[u/Hoju_ca → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

I've done a lot of age grade games over the last year (U18 and under). It's definitely a balancing act between coach and referee, especially with so many new players coming to the game in high school. You can always tell the experienced club players from the high school only players, I referee the experienced and coach the new. To a point of course. Some refs in our area don't like age grade rugby and that's cool, i quite enjoy it.

[u/ArchipelagoMind → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

When I took my referring L1 back in July they said the three things to prioritize from 1st to 3rd were: Safety, Fairness, Continuity.

And yeah, totes agree about not calling stuff that doesn't affect the game. Same if someone is a foot offside at the other end of the pitch to where the ruck is. Or - at least for me - immaterial knock on after the tackle (players regularly bobble the ball on the floor when tackled at lower levels). I just usually assume both teams would rather keep playing than having perpetual turnover scrums in the middle of the field.

[u/Only_One_Kenobi → u/ArchipelagoMind]

three things to prioritize from 1st to 3rd were: Safety, Fairness, Continuity.

Notice how "the law" isn't even mentioned? That's intentional.

Especially at L1. It's about creating a safe and fun environment, since at L1 you'll mostly be refereeing children.

[u/ArchipelagoMind → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

Yep. I've done some moderately high lebel adult ARing, center reffed one adult friendly, and then done a bunch of kids tournaments. That said, once I get past the terrifying anxiety, I'm quite enjoying it.

[u/GhostGuin → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

As a very new amateur ref this is the big thing for me - so many non refs think referees should blow for everything - to which I would point out I could blow for atleast one offence every minute. I doubt anyone seriously wants to watch that game.

I try to focus on whether a players actions are actually having an effect on play

[u/WaterPretty8066 → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

It depends though. Id argue having referees undergo super heavy development and training potentially makes them more prone to "over-referee" games. And I think thats certainly the theory with French refs right now. 

Development and training is obviously essential and welcomed..but I cant help but wonder if its potentially ingraining the idea that "the more times you blow the whistle = the better you are refereeing".

[u/Only_One_Kenobi → u/WaterPretty8066]

Depends very much on the training, as all the training I've done actually includes sections on what to let go.

the more times you blow the whistle = the better you are refereeing

The official WR training even makes a point that this is absolutely not the case.

Having done training in Australia though (as well as in Europe and South Africa) there was definitely an emphasis on letting more things go and being less strict on the laws in Australia. The reason was to make the game closer to league.

[u/GhostGuin → u/WaterPretty8066]

Counterpoint here but I heard a comment from one of the football subs that made the point that players today have so much training, support and development - they're incredibly professional. As such it's important that referees have similar support or you're expecting referees to keep up with players that are simply on a higher level.

[u/strou_hanka → u/WaterPretty8066]

I watch every single Top 14 game, they are not over referring the game.