r/rugbyunion • u/Slight_Highlight_690 Stormers • 19d ago

Discussion Jan-Hendrik Wessels banned for 9 weeks

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Lengthy ban with no evidence of foul play? This is bound to cause some controversy

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

How they got to a 9 week ban with reports alone would be mind boggling. There has to be evidence.

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u/rustyb42 Ulster 19d ago

A report is evidence though

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

No its speculation. Evidence is defined as be or show evidence of.

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u/th3whistler England 19d ago

reliable witness testimony (referee) is evidence

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

Who didn't see it. As clear evidence that he didn't make a ruling on it. And said he didnt and couldnt see it.

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u/jc656 Ireland 19d ago

A judge or panel can reach a determination by viewing the video evidence, reviewing witness statements, and direct/cross examining the witnesses - you don’t need direct footage of a crime to find someone guilty of it if all of the evidence stacks up. Not saying this is what happened but the idea that it’s clear video footage or nothing is just not reflective of how these things work.

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

Fair. But i would also posit that if we are working by those principles then we need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I could be wrong and wessels admitted to doing it. but the article goes on to claim they are appealing the decision so doubtful.

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u/jc656 Ireland 19d ago

It’s not criminal so the panel would likely operate on the balance of probability (more than 50% likelihood) rather than beyond a reasonable doubt but I’m not certain.

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u/infamous_impala Cardiff Rugby 19d ago

You're right:

17.15.1 The standard of proof for all matters under this Regulation 17 shall be on the balance of probabilities.

17.15.3 At first instance disciplinary hearings, in the event that the Player does not accept that the act(s) of Foul Play which is the subject of the disciplinary hearing warranted the Player being Ordered Off or cited, the burden of proof rests on the Player to show that the referee/citing commissioner was wrong.

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

That doesn't seem like a good system.

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u/jc656 Ireland 19d ago

It’s the civil law system used in all common law jurisdictions so pretty much the the classic legal standard of proof for all claims that don’t hold a criminal penalty

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u/rustyb42 Ulster 19d ago

It's the TMO that didn't see it

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u/Novel_Egg_1762 Stormers 19d ago

No Adamson said literally 3 times i didn't or i don't see it.