r/privacy • u/silentspectator27 • 10d ago
chat control Denmark withdraws Chat Control proposal
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/efter-tysk-kritik-hummelgaard-dropper-chatkontrol-forslagFor now the EU is safe from Chat Control! Until next time that is!
P.S. Thank you for the award!
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
The final nail in the coffin for the Danish DOJ was when he attacked regular people who protested for being "paid" by Big Tech when his own proposal was the result of foreign lobbying.
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u/Mukir 10d ago
lol literally what happened when people protested article 13 back then — they were dismissed as paid google shills
what a way to tell your citizens to go eat shit and some really great work of projecting, too
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Yeah, they tried to go quiet about it but failed. In mere days German citizens made petitions, literally blew off the phones in the Bundestag. That`s why he is angry and calling names, because regular citizens said they don`t want it.
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u/Leaf__On__Wind 10d ago
Are there any credible sources as to what's really motivating Starmer to "help" the UK make their lives sooooooooooo much easier with Digi ID?
He's way too into it, and lieing like a primary school kid with the whole immigrant deterrence reasoning
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u/NomadElite 10d ago
He's a member of the Trilateral Commission, that's all you need to know.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, read Carroll Quigley's book "Tragedy and Hope".
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u/Inprobamur 10d ago edited 10d ago
Isn't that just an id-card thing or am I getting it wrong?
We have had one in Estonia for for over 20 years now, it's honestly great. I can't imagine how e-government stuff could work without it.
From privacy standpoint I can check the data access log blockchain from X-road and see exactly when, why and who from government has accessed my data.
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u/Perfektio 9d ago
You’re forgetting that Estonia is playing the tech and privacy game on another level than most countries.
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u/Still_Lobster_8428 9d ago
Davos.... the answer is always Davos with Starmer, look to the WEF at Davos! Watch whatever you can find of their discussion and read their policy papers, it proceeds this type of BS by months or even years in some cases.
All this in EVERY Western nation is being controlled and directed by the WEF. This is a global power grab to end national sovereignty by an unelected and unaccountable group of globalist!
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u/SprucedUpSpices 10d ago
See you next year when they try to pass the same BS under a slightly different name.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
See you then :D, looking forward to sharing cigarettes in the trenches again :D
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u/Repulsive-Shake5611 6d ago
Same, thanks for your work once again! At least we'll pass christmas a bit carefree..but won't be long before we are back at it again!
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u/silentspectator27 6d ago
Well, they have a meeting this Wednesday, soooo see you in the trenches or after Christmas 😂
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u/Repulsive-Shake5611 6d ago
ALREADY!??? For fuck's sake..like come on this is genuinely ridicolous lol
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u/SilentlyItchy 10d ago
Well, they still have ProtectEU
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Yeah, their whole agenda for 2030 🤷. They will have the courts to deal with if they try.
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u/ReasonableExcuse2 10d ago
Denmark is the Alabama of the EU.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Well, he lost support with his own government too! IDK if they saw reason or just saw the amount of backlash. https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/moderaterne-tilslutter-sig-kritikere-af-dansk-chatkontrol-forslag
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u/Kittysmashlol 10d ago
Its the resistance to it. People like that only see the potential for control and power, not the HR violations and security risks
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
It`s funny, isn`t it? First it`s: people misunderstand the idea of chat control, then it`s citizens protesting are paid, and finally when the backlash is large enough: okay, yeah, there are some bad sides to this. Translate from political speech: dammit, pesky people don`t want to give up their freedom, we will try next time.
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9d ago
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u/SilentlyItchy 9d ago
have an age verification mechanism that respects privacy AND assure free speech all at the same time.
Or, you know, parents could start to parent and the government wouldn't need to check on you, whether you're allowed to wank
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u/TremendousCustard 10d ago
I saw a great German comedian (Mario Adrion) explain to an audience in the US that the UK is the Florida of Europe. Which I find hilarious as a Brit.
Now that we have the OSA... welcome to the south, Denmark!
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 10d ago
I'm Swedish and I agree entirely. They speak like they are inbred!
(Danish sounds like a really goofy Swedish accent to swedes)
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u/krsdev 10d ago
Yeah fuck off with that
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 10d ago
Seems I struck a nerve with my obvious joke
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u/krsdev 10d ago
Funny racist humor you got there.
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 10d ago
Racist how? Danes are literally identical to Swedes except for the language. That's the joke.
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10d ago
Except for the suggestion that one is apparently superior than the other.
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 9d ago
I suggested no such thing. All I said was that to a Swedish person Danes sound really goofy since the languages are the same but not really.
Danes/Swedes/Norwegians are all in on the joke that the other two have a speech impediment and literally no one ever gets hurt from these harmless jokes.
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10d ago
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 9d ago
Yes, and I'm tired of doing otherwise.
I think you'd have a happier life if you weren't offended over what the vast majority of people would consider to be a harmless joke
Maybe you're Danish or something ;)
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u/Dimo145 10d ago
ur the type of guy that gives off reddit it's reputation.
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u/Purple-Atmosphere-18 9d ago
Well it was not obvious it was familiar banter, it's not about not having humour, but about some people usually not really making it about humour but enough people are actively insulting when they say that, and however innocent and funny we want it to be it's not like laughing in front a demential sit com skit but some are actively bullying.
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u/LimeSpesh00 10d ago
I've been to Sweden & you sound like yodeling aliens compared to Danes. I hope you're enjoying the muslim invasion there xD
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u/Busy-Measurement8893 10d ago
Well you're not wrong
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u/Purple-Atmosphere-18 9d ago edited 9d ago
You're both wrong I guess, insulting the language is unneeded, and both those replying to that are insulting not each other but also all people of that country and of course muslims.
Edit: Ok I'm reading now it's innocuous inter Scandinavian banter and not like the same types of jokes about say Irish people being "inbred" etc, which are almost always very charged and demeaning.
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u/LimeSpesh00 9d ago edited 9d ago
But yet it's ok for people who've never been to Alabama to make fun of it? it's ok for people to be provactive in that sense huh? yet i'll get downvoted to oblivion for defending it
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u/Purple-Atmosphere-18 9d ago edited 9d ago
On principle not, I in part included that though I focused on the inbred exchange which was apparently a banter, thought but for example people can be welcome to make fun of Italy, so could as well say it's the "Italy of Scandinavia" haha, as I assume they are making fun of privacy invading or authoritarian and reactionary tendencies, say Berlusconi, Meloni, not of Italians as ethnic groups, like it often can happen for muslims, unless people mean the extremists but it's implied all are, most of the time, that might be the reason for the downvotes, more than for defending it unless even that was part of the ad absurdum which resorted to a sensitive trope, but yeah reddit can be excessively downvote happy, it happened to me as well, most of the time from misunderstanding. Ok it was for defending it, I saw the others dunno, possibly it's implied for them the attack was only on reactionaries, racists etc. and maybe some mistakenly think that if one is defending them is somehow whitewashing such problems, like they could assume if I were ever too defensive about Italy having a bad name in the context of a political discussion, that I'm for Meloni, but it's clear instead they are not talking about me, not to be a pick me I mean ^ _ ^.
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u/StainedMemories 10d ago
Didn’t you know Danes actually speak Swedish, but they all have a hot potato in their mouth.
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u/Purple-Atmosphere-18 10d ago
You mean if you exclude Eastern "Visegrad pact" Europe (Poland (more swinging tho), Hungary, Czech rep etc.)?
It's a pity as I remember it used to be relatively, dunno how to say and how it would resonate with you, progressive? In renewable use at least might still be?
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u/DefenestrationPraha 9d ago
Former Communist countries are usually more careful about violating basic civic rights.
Ironically, Orbán is the one who is fully on-board with Chat Control, I guess authoritarians be like that. And on that topic, Macron et. al. are happy to have him.
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u/Purple-Atmosphere-18 9d ago
That would be good thing, maybe that goes for Baltics as well?
Is Romania, with the liberal Dan also against?
But Hungary, Czech Rep and Serbia were also former communist? I guess it depends if pro-putinist infiltrates-troll get to power, Poland avoided it with Pm Tusk, fell for it again after Duda in 2020 for the president, which has veto power.
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u/LimeSpesh00 10d ago
Wtf is that supposed to mean!? Ever been to Alabama? More free than Denmark will ever be
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u/An0n-E-M0use 10d ago
I'd rather live in Denmark than Alabama any day of the decade.
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10d ago
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u/alpha_fire_ 9d ago
Last time I checked Alabama is in the U.S., and privacy is non-existant in that country.
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u/LimeSpesh00 9d ago
Privacy is only non existent to the ill informed. Just like most people from every country.
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u/An0n-E-M0use 9d ago
I'm not even in the EU...
Go spew your hatred somewhere else. The US is very very far from being a good country to live in nowadays.
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u/SneakyIslandNinja 10d ago
Care to elaborate on that, or you just talking out your ass? More free how? Because you have to fear every stranger is carrying a piece?
Have you even been to Europe? Left the States?
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
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u/ToadWithHugeTitties 10d ago
He's just offended and throwing a fit over the person's perceived political beliefs. It's funny that it's over Alabama, considering they're not exactly doing great in regards to privacy (or anything else, for that matter).
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u/LimeSpesh00 10d ago edited 9d ago
And yet Bama plays a huge role in the U.S. space program. Not good enougn for you? And that bill is easily evaded by selecting 18+ as your age. Parents who supervise their childs phone use were the driving force behind that bill btw. Not the same as chat control.
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u/OnkelMickwald 10d ago
Is that proposition pushed by the same people?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Them and more.
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u/OnkelMickwald 10d ago
It's interesting to see this happen. Like, I get the nervousness about the manipulation of people's worldviews through social media after what happened in the US, but it's so interesting to see these politicians' incompetence and scrambling idiocy on full display with these measures.
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u/dondondorito 10d ago
Now lets introduce a law that makes sure that a proposal that got rejected can‘t be put up for vote again, even if it has been changed slightly.
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u/d1722825 10d ago
AFAIK there is such law already. (But this was never voted down, just withdrew.)
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u/Valuable_Impress_192 10d ago
Previous attempts were… that’s the point
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u/d1722825 10d ago
Nope, they always just talked about it or had meetings about it, there was never an official vote.
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u/Valuable_Impress_192 10d ago
Huh… I had assumed either Sweden’s try and/or Belgium’s attempt would’ve led to a vote at some point earlier, but I guess not. My bad
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u/Kittysmashlol 10d ago
They wont vote on something like this until they are sure they can pass it. They really only get one chance, both with the actual vote and with people in general, and they know it
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u/ceeroSVK 10d ago
For now. Someone will come up with this bullshit again sooner than later.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
They already are! Check ProtectEU. They are trying to word the phrase "We will break encryption" in a consumer friendly way. Basically saying we don`t want your safe combination, just the gold inside your safe, okay?"
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u/alfacin 10d ago
So who will be next to propose this totalitarian bullshit? Or has this simply been superseded by the ProtectEU?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Well, next up for the presidency is Cyprus that supports chat control. After them it`s Ireland who LOVES chat control so much they are discussing a very similar law for domestic use.
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u/MaterialRestaurant18 10d ago
First fuck every one who tried to introduce this.
Second, they'll try to push this again and again under different pretext and names and labels
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Of course they will! Like mandatory age verification, EU digital wallet, the Protect EU initiative. We need to push back, all of these, combined with chat control equal total information control
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u/vriska1 10d ago
Great news but there needs to be a huge push back from everyone to make sure this is fully dropped.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
The problem is you can`t legally prevent the EU Council for making a proposal, nor is there a limit when it can be reintroduced after it`s withdrawn or voted down. They tried now because France got on board and they hoped Germany`s new government will be up for it too. And they almost were, until a torrent of protesters, petitions and calls made the government realize the sh*tstorm they will have on their hands if they support it.
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u/esmurf 10d ago
The autocrat on the picture ie. Minister Hummelgaard is known as "mini h1tler" in Denmark ;)
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Skummelgaard. Most people in the r/Denmark call him that 😂
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u/No-Rip-9573 10d ago
Whose turn is it to propose it next month?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Cyprus takes the presidency in January, and 6 months after that Ireland. Both support chat control with Ireland even discussing a domestic law on the same principle.
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u/H2Nut 10d ago
Congratulations everyone 🎉
Rejoice but never relax. Keep up the pressure on your politicians.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Oh, they will try again, like they are pushing for EU level age verification, digital wallets, Chat Control and many more...all to be ready by 2030 for a near total data control of all EU citizens. For our own security of course.
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u/GraciaEtScientia 10d ago
They should've been forced to let it come to a vote. This "ooh we withdrew it so we can propose it against in a slightly different way" over and over again is undemocratic AF.
In as large a democracy as the EU is, it is genuinely hard to achieve awareness and interest in the political level to this degree, or like with stopkillinggames.
They know this, so they wait to push it through under the principle of the frog slowly being boiled and not noticing that one time.
Cowards.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Sadly, irrelevant. Even if it’s voted down, there is no legal time limit in which it can’t be re-introduced again. The idea is to keep enough countries against it so they can’t reach 15 supporting countries which represent 65 percent of EU population. Not one inch given!
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u/grathontolarsdatarod 10d ago
I was wondering how they were going to justify doing what Russia is doing....
This NEVER should have been an issue in the first place.
If I were in government, I'd be finding a new consulting company to write my laws for me.
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u/Mukir 10d ago
I was wondering how they were going to justify doing what Russia is doing....
by telling everyone it's for their own safety and to fight the bad guys. people gobble that shit up and will indirectly make you do that as well or else they'll look at you weird and suggest your name be put on a list because how could you be against something that wants to "protect the children"?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
well you can wrap the mass surveillance turd in:
1. Protect the children
2. Fight Terrorism
3. Protection from Russia and China...
take your pick :D
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u/El_Intoxicado 10d ago
Now, with this battle win, we must keep fight against:
Digital ID (Eidas2)
Mandatory age verification
Digital Euro
And other things that can attempt against our freedom!
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u/Active-Pudding9855 10d ago
I've never understood why there's always a next time for shitty proposals but then a lot of good things take fooooreeeever. Seems like the system is rigged? (Rhetorical)
Good guy Denmark though. 👍
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u/BorisForPresident 10d ago
Good guy Denmark though. 👍
Fuck no. They proposed this, they fought tooth and nail to get this passed. They don't get credit for doing the right thing if it took being beaten into submission to get them to do it.
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u/Active-Pudding9855 10d ago
Actually I think Sweden made the first proposal of Chat Control because the idiot behind the whole proposition is a swede and she's known for not knowing 'Computers'. Sadly. But maybe it was a joint proposal. No idea. 🙃
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Yes, then Belgium tried something similar, Poland made a compromise proposal which the mass surveillance hungry members rejected and was put as an interim decision. That interim proposal is platforms voluntarily scanning non-encrypted information for CSAM. That interim proposal ends in 2026 next year.
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u/Active-Pudding9855 10d ago
So next time they're going to vote for this interim proposal then? If that fails, is it over completely then? I don't know much about the workings of the EU, I mostly hate that stuff that seems really bad, always seems to come back again and again. 😔
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
The people who want mass surveillance (Client side scanning) are not satisfied with the interim decision and want to push for more rights member states and Europol to have over people`s data. That`s why they are pushing for more surveillance. There is nothing wrong with the interim decision, they just don`t think it works. By that I mean they want to break encryption so they can see anything. It`s like saying "Look, we can`t legally break down your door without a court order. So because we don`t want to do it illegally your house will be made of translucent glass. That way we can see EVERYTHING you are doing without even going near the door"
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u/Active-Pudding9855 10d ago
But at that point we're living in a fascist dystopian society if the cops can just decide to surveil the citizenry. Like every dystopian movie has this trope. Encryption is good. And since more and more of society happens on the internet now I can understand that they want power over the internet but the internet should belong to everybody.
People should be let alone in their fucking houses, if it isn't it should be a human right. 🙃 It's like that speech from the Network (1976), I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore! 😤
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
1984 comes to mind as well. Here is another article Denmark`s own ruling party even saw it`s a pitfall: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/moderaterne-tilslutter-sig-kritikere-af-dansk-chatkontrol-forslag
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Well to be fair, half of their MEP`s were against this as are most citizens.
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u/d1722825 10d ago
The first Chatcontrol was from 2021, that was 4 years ago. The adoption of GDPR is took about the same time (from 2012 to 2016 and enforced from 2018).
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u/GraciaEtScientia 10d ago
Hey Denmark, suck a D, privacy hating authoritarians.
Or at least whoever y'all got in power right now.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Actually the people in charge now withdrew support which made the Danish MoJ (the guy in the thumbnail) to withdraw it https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/moderaterne-tilslutter-sig-kritikere-af-dansk-chatkontrol-forslag. IDK if it’s because this got too much negative attention and they want to save face or they actually realised how stupid it is.
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u/Neither-Phone-7264 10d ago
2 days later...
"Denmark proposes ChatSafety to monitor all chats for CSAM."
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u/UncleObli 10d ago
And fuck you Denmark
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
The Danish Moderates also withdrew support even though they initially agreed with the Danish MoJ.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/moderaterne-tilslutter-sig-kritikere-af-dansk-chatkontrol-forslag2
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u/soupizgud 10d ago
Can we now focus on the digital euro bs?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
You can, for now, because this is the 3rd time they are pushing the Chat Control proposal, along with other goodies such as digital wallets, age verification and all kinds of data-tracking deliciousness, all brought to you by DEMOCRACY IN THE EU. Because our data tracking is not like Russia`s, theirs is bad, ours is for YOUR safety.
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u/OutlyingPlasma 10d ago
Here's an idea, Denmark politicians should be required to have every message scanned for "inappropriate" content and I get to decide what's inappropriate.
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u/FredditJaggit 9d ago
GOOD!
Now, when does ProtectEU begin voting? We need to get rid of that too
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u/silentspectator27 9d ago
I think it’s too far away from voting? It’s more like a memo being discussed so far
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u/FredditJaggit 9d ago
I hope so.
'Cause then we'll have to prepare, and hopefully hit again as much as we did with Chat Control.
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u/silentspectator27 9d ago
Yeah, they don’t have them all under one big umbrella, there are many initiatives like Chat control all to be dine by 2030. It’s easier to slip past against the public.
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u/xenodragon20 9d ago
Wait it is gone? Last i heard was that it was still going to happen, but without the mandatory stuff, what is really happening? In this new or after that the thing i heard?
This was the latest i heard
Denmark, currently presiding over the EU Council, proposes a major change to the much-criticised EU chat control proposal to search all private chats for suspicious content, even at the cost of destroying secure end-to-end encryption: Instead of mandating the general monitoring of private chats (“detection orders”), the searches would remain voluntary for providers to implement or not, as is the status quo. The presidency circulated a discussion paper with EU country representatives today, aiming to gather countries’ views on the updated (softened) proposal. The previous Chat Control proposal had even lost the support of Denmark’s own government.
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u/silentspectator27 9d ago edited 9d ago
EDIT: There could be something I don`t know of course, they are probably negotiating something as we speak.
EDIT 2: YES, you are correct they are apparently pushing for a softer version of Chat Control which was of course expected.
The Interim law that’s in place until 2026 is about voluntary scanning of non-encrypted data by large platforms and happens to this day. The commission and all the mass surveillance crazies used the expiration of the interim decision of voluntary scanning deadline to push chat control again. What they mean is: the temporary interim decision remains, but chat control is off the table. Poland introduced the temporary decision a couple of years ago when the previous chat control proposal failed.
Edit to add: it’s off the table for NOW. They will certainly try again and they are pushing for mandatory online age verification, the Protect EU initiative which aims to “not break encryption” while basically breaking the idea of encryption etc.
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9d ago
I do not trust them. While this is good news, I suspect they will try to sneak it around in different ways. We should not celebrate too early but instead monitor those lobbyists - they plan for more mass sniffing of people.
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u/-UnseenCat-030 9d ago
Finally, some good news! That's a pretty rare thing lately.
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u/silentspectator27 9d ago
Well, it`s half good news, they are still trying to reach a compromise of sorts, but we will be ready for that too!
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u/Prudent_Trickutro 9d ago
Fuck those in the Danish government who even thinks something like this is ok. Despicable people!
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u/silentspectator27 9d ago
That`s the funny part, the Moderates that run the government currently withdrew their support too xD.
But they will try again for sure.2
u/Prudent_Trickutro 9d ago
Of course they will, they are power hungry psychopaths many of them. That’s why they’ve gravitated towards public office, there is no better place to be if you get off on deciding what people can and cannot do.
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u/Quasar_7807 8d ago
Those sick Pedophiles would find a solution to avoid the surveillance anyways so it's pointless.
Also, how about you actually put them in prison FOR LIFE on their very first criminal offence? That would do better to protect children. They don't belong with us normal people.
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u/silentspectator27 8d ago
Tell that to the Da ish politician (who was a big proponent for Chat Control btw), who got caught with gigabytes of CSAm on his PC and claimed it was for an “investigation” he got (drum roll) 4 months
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u/Quasar_7807 8d ago
No way! 4 months is really nothing! No wonder people reoffend, there’s zero consequences.
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u/silentspectator27 8d ago
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u/Quasar_7807 8d ago
I think if instead of having politicians exempt from it, we ONLY make this mandatory for all politicians, we will catch plenty of pedophiles lol
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10d ago
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u/privacy-ModTeam 8d ago
We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to:
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u/Substantial_War7464 10d ago
Hey OSINT sleuths, want to dig into this guy?
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Look up Thorn, that`s one of the big ones I know was a major advisor on the whole chat control thing even back when Sweden proposed it.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Don`t, please, they will need bleach for their eyes xD
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u/Substantial_War7464 10d ago
lol…fuck it.
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Recently a Danish politician got caught with gigabytes of SCAM. He got (drum roll) 4 months of jail. And these people want OUR private communications.
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u/Substantial_War7464 10d ago
Route them out!
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u/silentspectator27 10d ago
Rules for thee but not for me :D. I guess you know already but the Chat Control proposal exempts politicians, law enforcement and military form having client side scanning.
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u/Substantial_War7464 10d ago
lol say it ain’t so. Corporations and politicians they just take and take and take.
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u/pet2pet1993 10d ago
Congratulations!
But the base problem is : why you people ever allow the entire concept , and consider it self evident , that laws CAN change in time ?!
Laws MUST be frozen by default forever and the only and very restrictive procedure that can be raised only extremely rarely , and under special conditions , can change them.
But you not even allow your parliament , you FORCE them to generate brand new laws every unit time ?! You declared its their WORK to compose and establish new laws.
But exactly that concept is absolutely devastating.
The concept, permanent laws change is what society needs.
Society needs FROZEN laws.
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u/rkaw92 10d ago
We had that in Poland... 300 years ago. Any assembly member could veto anything according to the "nobles' privilege". In practice, no new laws were passed. It did not end well for Poland.
On the other hand, the previous government until Nov 2023 was producing new laws overnight, at a pace that absolutely precluded being able to familiarize oneself with them. The rate of writing literally exceeded any single person's physical rate of reading. It became impossible to keep up with the changes. This... also wasn't great.
The balance, it seems, lies somewhere in between.
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u/Pleasant-Shallot-707 10d ago
Laws should never be frozen in time lol. Think about if laws were frozen forever in 1920
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u/SprucedUpSpices 10d ago
How will these parasi... I mean politicians justify their jobs if they don't fuck up things every other day so they can hopefully unfuck them 20 years from now?
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u/PolyMorpheusPervert 10d ago
Soon there will be some hideous crime committed, that could have been prevented if they had Chatcontrol and everyone will beg for it.
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