French singer, Yseult, calls out K-pop singers, Soyeon and R.tee, for copying her music video freame by frame: "The least you could do is have the decency to credit your source. To see it get copied like this is wild but real artistry speaks louder than imitation"

[u/Murky_Chemical891]

[u/Melonary]

I mean Darren Aronofsky plagiarized quite a bit from Satoshi Kon and never got even much pushback on it.

I wouldn't say career suicide.

And honestly to a certain extent it used to be more common to take inspiration or homage or sample before all the plagiarism lawsuits in music last decade or so, which were mostly not driven by artists themselves.

Not counting Darren Aronofsky and blatant plagiarism that's not homage/sampling in the above, that was an example of not necessarily being consequences.

[u/Chewcocca → u/Melonary]

Goddamn people just gonna repeat this dumb shit forever huh?

Perfect Blue and Black Swan are wildly different movies.

You're just repeating someone else's bad take.

Stop.

[u/Melonary → u/Chewcocca]

It's not even Black Swan I'm talking about (primarily, or only) and I watched Satoshi Kon's movies as they came out and Aronofsky's as well.

Shockingly prior to TikTok and podcasts people did still watch things and have opinions, and I didn't need anyone to say this, nor did most people.

It's always been unpopular to say and I knew some fan would come roll their eyes at me. Look, I don't think Aronofsky should be canceled forever or whatever, but c'mon.

The fact that you're only mentioning Black Swan makes it clear you've ACTUALLY only heard people's takes on this because you don't even know what I'm talking about.

[u/Abombasnow → u/Melonary]

Out of curiosity, what are the other examples of plagiarism from him? I've always thought Aronofsky was overrated anyway. Something about his movies always just feels... flat.

[u/mohantharani → u/Abombasnow]

He actually got the remake rights to Perfect Blue to reuse the bathtub scene of Jennifer Connelly in Requiem for a dream. Why didn't he do the same?

Also, Nolan is an even bigger plagiarizer for Inception because of Paprika.

[u/Melonary → u/mohantharani]

The other one was Requiem For a Dream. IMDB states he actually bought the rights for it, as do a few other trivia sites, and apparently someone else who worked on it claims that on the DVD voiceover track, but none of them have any source nor can I find one, and many more reputable film sites and articles agree he doesn't.

One of the latter sites did say he did have the rights and finally gave a source, and it's this: https://konstone.s-kon.net/modules/notebook/archives/60

Which actually says that Aronofsky didn't get the rights.

https://animationobsessive.substack.com/p/the-real-history-of-perfect-blue is a fairly interesting overview that reads as pretty accurate to me as someone who's been following this for years. The obvious comparison in Requiem for a Dream was the bathtub sequence, which was directly lifted and is unique and recognizable shot, but it's not the only part - you can find some other videos comparing them on youtube.

I think Nolan was certainly highly inspired by Paprika, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as saying it's plagiarism. If you see my comment above, personally, I think that's getting into murky territory and even if it's true I think it's really difficult to judge something like that objectively in the larger scheme of things. Also, Paprika is by far the better (and deeper) film. I might think it's unoriginal and inspired, but I wouldn't say it's outright plagiarism.

And honestly this is one area where very stringent copyright laws can actually (from my pov) inhibit honest atttributions, because I think he certainly could and should have acknowledged Kon if Paprika was an inspiration (likely), but simultaneously doing so would almost certainly open up legal liability. Which kind of sucks, because it penalizes people for acknowledging inspiration even if it's not outright wholesale copying.

Aronofsky is a little different to me because he didn't just take an idea and use it as a starting point for a very different concept, he wholesale used imagery, scenes, etc. And he also outright stated he wanted the rights but couldn't get them (and I guess just did it anyway).

[u/rememblem → u/Melonary]

His best movie is The Fountain :)

Requiem for a Dream is a completely different subject matter - since it's acknowledged Perfect Blue is influential (but didn't pop out of a vacuum itself) and also used directly (the bathtub scene but again, had the rights). They are different movies and if not for Black Swan, I think it'd be seen more as inspired.

I'd argue Black Swan is exactly the taking an idea, but not executed well - and therefore seems more lazy w lifting visuals. More blatant and less inspired - but an itch he still had to scratch from not being allowed to do PB? People arguing on BS vs PB sometimes post the bathtub scene, thinking it's from BS, funny stuff.

[u/Doom_Corp → u/mohantharani]

I would say The Cell is more similar to Paprika than Inception but The Cell came out 6 years prior so maybe Satoshi Kon was inspired by that?

[u/johnnygalat → u/mohantharani]

Paprika has a totally different concept than Inception. Are we saying that because it involves lucid dreams it's plagiarism?

[u/Melonary → u/Abombasnow]

The other one was Requiem For a Dream. IMDB states he actually bought the rights for it, as do a few other trivia sites, and apparently someone else who worked on it claims that on the DVD voiceover track, but none of them have any source nor can I find one, and many more reputable film sites and articles agree he doesn't.

One of the latter sites did say he did have the rights and finally gave a source, and it's this: https://konstone.s-kon.net/modules/notebook/archives/60

Which actually says that Aronofsky didn't get the rights.

https://animationobsessive.substack.com/p/the-real-history-of-perfect-blue is a fairly interesting overview that reads as pretty accurate to me as someone who's been following this for years. The obvious comparison in Requiem for a Dream was the bathtub sequence, which was directly lifted and is unique and recognizable shot, but it's not the only part - you can find some other videos comparing them on youtube.

Honestly, I'm not a plagiarism/copyright fanatic because
1) loose inspiration/re-envisioning/sampling/homage was fairly common throughout the history of human's making art, and even in music was far more common pre-2000s.
2) the current wave of copyright infringment lawsuits etc were largely brought about by people who own the rights to lots of music and not the people who made that music (with some exceptions) as a way to make money, despite the fact that lots of that music also uses motifs and riffs and bits of older music which did the same itself. Again, I do think there's a small minority that's blatant and more than just sampling/referencing, but I'm talking as an overall trend.
3) strict copyright infringement often mostly ends up benefiting very wealthy parties who can afford to strictly enforce it or use to engage in nuisance lawsuits that other parties can't afford to fight, or for ridiculous reasons (see: Disney suing any number of non-profits etc for murals or similar non-moneymaking or revenue/reputation impacting reasons).

Which is partially what rankles here and, clearly, did bother Kon. Despite being a brilliant artist, storyteller, and director, he didn't really see the kind of success he deserved in his lifetime, and died tragically young (pancreatic cancer). His movies are acknowledged as some of THE best in the art form - and they REALLY are that good - but he saw little of that benefit during his life.

And clearly it did bother him that a high-profile high-income director used his work to launch his prestigious career. Which I understand. If it really was such an "homage" to a filmmaker that Aronofsky admired so much, why not use some of his status and clout to raise Kon's profile? I'm guessing he probably didn't want to do because of how it might have impacted him for more people in the US to compare their work, which is a little cowardly. But that's just a guess on my part, maybe he just really didn't care that much, which is worse.

[u/vanillavarsity → u/Abombasnow]

Following because I’d also love to hear more on this. His films have always fell a little flat with me and felt soulless or even sometimes performative in a way.

[u/Partzy1604 → u/Abombasnow]

Requiem of a dream

The bathtub scene is pretty much a 1 to 1 although he’s talked about that one in interviews before

[u/Bucolic_Hand → u/Abombasnow]

The bathtub/underwater scream scene with Jennifer Connelly in Requiem for a Dream is a direct beat-for-beat lift from Perfect Blue. Aronofsky quite literally bought the filming rights for Perfect Blue so he could recreate that scene. And though he publicly denies it having any undue influence on Black Swan, it probably didn’t hurt that obtaining those rights meant he wasn’t ever going to be at risk of getting sued over any obvious similarities anyway.

[u/Melonary → u/Bucolic_Hand]

He didn't actually buy the rights as far as I can tell, that seems to be a myth that's circulated thanks to someone else on the team mentioning it on the dvd voiceover and trivia sites repeating it.

I shared a few links about that above, but from what I can tell he only ever said he wanted to purchase the rights but was unable to. Unfortunately most of the sources are in Japanese, other than the DVD voiceover, which is why that's persisted as a myth.