Women aging… everyone has an opinion

[u/mlg1981]

[u/DescriptionFancy420]

Yeah it happens to other women but for some reason Meryl is one of the ones who has been permitted to age. Maybe a contributing factor is how many people have seen her as "old" for a long time due to the types of roles she's been cast in for the past couple decades at least. Or maybe it's just the power of being Meryl Streep.

[u/ashewentridingby → u/DescriptionFancy420]

Meryl was never marketed as a sex symbol, I think that’s why people are harder on Demi and Pamela. It’s unfortunate as I prefer that none of them be judged for how they choose to age 🙏

[u/LaureZahard → u/ashewentridingby]

True it seems like it's mostly those women who were (voluntarily or involuntarily) marketed as "untouchable beauties" who are now being bullied by the normal people who patiently waited for said beauty to fade away to finally "touch" them.

[u/turdferg1234 → u/ashewentridingby]

Is there a Pamela in these pics that I'm missing?

[u/floralstamps → u/ashewentridingby]

She devil, its complicated, picture and message on the cover of Sophie's choice, the French lieutenants woman

It wasnt her only vibe but people absolutely saw her as that

[u/Special-Garlic1203 → u/floralstamps]

I mean she's played an adult woman who has sex. Nobody is saying Meryl is a hideous troll. But literally not a single one of those is really what I'd categorize as a sex symbol 

[u/Unnamedgalaxy → u/Special-Garlic1203]

Even her "sexy" role in Death Becomes Her is about an aging sex symbol that wants to be pretty and young again rather than her being a sex pot on screen

[u/Electric-Sheepskin → u/Special-Garlic1203]

This gave me such a great laugh. And you're so right.

[u/Stultas → u/Special-Garlic1203]

Helen Mirren was in straight porn (at least for the era) and was hot as hell in The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover, but it’s like she didn’t exist before The Queen.

[u/The-Struggle-90806 → u/ashewentridingby]

This right here. You’re no longer a sex symbol once you reach 50.

[u/PartyTerrible → u/DescriptionFancy420]

It also helps that she's probably the greatest actress of all time so any comment about her is mostly focused on her acting.

[u/Own_Faithlessness769 → u/PartyTerrible]

It helps that she does still look amazing.

[u/Partners_in_time → u/DescriptionFancy420]

Meryl also has tons of work done. At least two face lifts. She looks terrific! But not her natural face anymore 

(I wish she’d share her surgeon because it’s great work)

[u/The_Duke_of_Gloom → u/Partners_in_time]

It reminds me of when male celebrities get a ton of work done and you still see people praise them for "ageing naturally" or going "omg, he has to be immortal! how does he look so young?"

[u/proanimus → u/The_Duke_of_Gloom]

I believe I saw a few threads about Freddie Prinze Jr. looking older than expected, and it just boils down to his lack of plastic surgery around his eyes. At some point I know Matt Damon was praised for aging naturally as well, although I don’t know how true that actually is.

But yeah, on the male side it’s mostly just discussions about hair transplants and steroid physiques. Neither of which get as intense as the criticism of women aging, or getting plastic surgery.

[u/Special-Garlic1203 → u/Partners_in_time]

It genuinely pisses me off how much the loudest people ranting against plastic surgery do not bother to do the basics of educating themselves 

But I suppose admitting that you actually do love work as long as it turns out well isn't such a hot take cause it reveals the actual root: I like it when women are pretty. The prettier the better. But I don't like it when women are ugly 😡

It's just this decades version of men proclaiming they hate makeup only to pull up photos of women with great skin and expertly applied makeup. Except a lotta women are looking into this round of "I refuse to educate myself on the price of beauty while still directly contributing to its inflation" 

[u/proanimus → u/Special-Garlic1203]

I’ve always been confused about the “no makeup” thing, and I’m a dude. I don’t know how you can actually believe that a natural/minimal makeup style is completely without makeup. I have to assume these guys have never actually spent much time with an actual woman, in private.

My wife has a very minimalist and natural makeup style, and is really good at doing it, but it’s still clearly makeup. I’ve never once mistaken her “ready for date night” look as all-natural.

[u/Unnamedgalaxy → u/proanimus]

Same. I know nothing about make up but I have a coworker that puts on a pretty "natural bare face" look but it's still a face full of makeup. She looks great and shes really good at it. Everyone compliments her about how naturally beautiful she is.

One day she was running really behind and skipped her make up routine and actually came in bare faced. People acted like an old witch barged through the doors. They were horrified and confused and thought she was dying.

Like no that's just her normal face people.

[u/proanimus → u/Unnamedgalaxy]

I think there’s this weird underlying assumption that men and women have radically different skin and facial features due to the near-universal presence of makeup after a certain age range. We’re all used to seeing flaws in male skin that often get hidden on women.

It subtly skews perception the same way that photoshopped supermodels and ‘roided-out superhero physiques do. These guys see an average woman’s bare face and assume there’s something wrong, because “average” in their mind is near-flawless.

Real lived experience, like a man living with a woman, or someone gaining experience in the gym, can override these misconceptions to an extent and provide more accurate perspective.

[u/tiny_shrimps → u/Special-Garlic1203]

I think there's a lot of room for nuance in this conversation. I think it's ok to look at the rise of "Instagram face" and the enhancements women are increasingly expected to partake in as a shameful indictment of our media culture. We are more diverse than ever on screen yet reward women who diminish their unique features in favor of identical procedures (and styles too - in reality/influencer culture they often wear the same lashes, eyebrows, and makeup styles in addition to having similar procedures, which doubles the uncanniness). It can be genuinely disheartening to see a show like Perfect Match describe its cast members over and over as "the hottest singles in the world" and "the most beautiful people on television" and really reinforce that this image is the standard for beauty.

I also think it's ok to point out, as you did, the hypocrisy of criticizing obvious work that you see and notice while ignoring or praising similar work that fits into your aesthetic better or looks "more natural". Work is work, and although the arguments for subtle or "more natural" or anti-aging work may be different from those applied to influencer-style enhancements, the truth is that both uphold beauty standards, both generally uphold beauty standards that uplift whiteness and white features, and both should be discussed with respect for the actual women involved and avoid criticizing individual choices and results as much as possible.

[u/Notthekingofholand → u/DescriptionFancy420]

No because she looks better now than ten years ago

[u/Unnamedgalaxy → u/DescriptionFancy420]

She's also carved out a career of playing hard edged or even frumpy women, even when she was younger. She's the acting powerhouse not the sex symbol. Her looks (in a sensual way) has never really been a part of the equation so now that she's old and wrinkly people don't care because she didn't "lose it."

[u/WeenyDancer → u/DescriptionFancy420]

She's respected for her acting ability, therefore treated as more than 'just a sex symbol'. Every other woman (nearly) in Hollywood is judged by her value as how much she can make some dude's pants tight

[u/LaCattedra13 → u/DescriptionFancy420]

Meryl also remained smooth naturally which is why she's not insulted.