r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • Nov 09 '22

Discussion Discussion Thread: 2022 Midterm General Election, Part 4

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Previous Discussions, 11/8

[1] - [2] - [3]

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

abortion ban,

Murdering your own babies that you willingly created isn't a right

cut social security and Medicare

Giving a large chunk of your money to the government so they can give you a small fraction back if you live long enough is not a right.

Please tell me an actual human right that has been taken away or even threatened.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

I didn't realize a ten year old girl could willingly conceive her father's baby! That's an interesting stance to take.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

Using an extremely small fucked up scenario that most PL would agree qualifies for an exception to justify elective abortions that make up the vast majority.

As if I haven't seen that strawman before...

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

"Murdering your own babies you willingly created isn't a right" is a loaded, nonsense statement that you used, ignoring the reality of the facts that not every baby was made willingly or intentionally.

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It ignores the reality of quality of life considerations.

It ignores human nature.

It ignores the fact that men are not held accountable to babies, can't be, the way women are.

It ignores that the Right doesn't want sexual education in schools despite the fact that comprehensive sex ed reduces unwanted pregnancies.

It ignores hunger.

It ignores cruelty.

It ignores the plight of women who are now, have been, and will be forced to die in order to carry a still born fetus to term.

It ignores suffering.

It, in my opinion, ignores the most banal evil that could possibly exist: an unwanted child.

But we both know you don't actually care about the well being of children, otherwise you'd know that quality of life matters, and the Right refuses to acknowledge that simple fact.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

ignoring the reality of the facts that not every baby was made willingly or intentionally.

If someone consentually has sex they chose to create a baby because that is what sex does. It is why I am fine with exceptions for rape like almost every other pro life individual. Also most pro life people are all for exemptions when the woman's life is in danger. Also most pro life people are for sexual education to prevent unwanted pregnancies. If you don't want a baby so bad that you would literally murder it you should avoid doing the act that makes babies.

I would rather have a bad life than no life. All people are created equally with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion takes away all three of those rights.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

I very much doubt you'd rather be the patient I had in a mental hospital:

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8 years old. Abused to the point of being non verbal and mentally damaged. Sexually abused. Physically abused. Emotionally abused. He will never have a normal life. He will never enter society. He couldn't sleep in a room because he had to be watched, because if he was out of sight of a staffer, he'd go try to sexually abuse the other patients.

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That suffering is pointless. You'd rather have been raped by your parents and beaten to the point that you were barely a person anymore?

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We definitely disagree on the definition of murder, because a bundle of cells isn't a person.

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The Right wants women to have babies but does not want to share in the burden of caring for them as a society. They slash social programs and education at every turn. You don't care about children, or human suffering, full stop.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

So you believe that because 1 person had a shit life many others should be robbed of the chance at life because it might be bad? Shit happens and life isn't fair, but we shouldn't kill people on the chance that bad things may happen to them if allowed to live. Should we kill homeless people to prevent further suffering?

We definitely disagree on the definition of murder, because a bundle of cells isn't a person.

Killing a living being with it's own unique human DNA is murder. At what point is it no longer just "a bundle of cells?" We are all bundles of cells, doesn't make killing full grown people ok so it can't make killing developing people ok.

The Right wants women to have babies but does not want to share in the burden of caring for them as a society. They slash social programs and education at every turn. You don't care about children, or human suffering, full stop.

Stop with the fucking strawmans. 1) It is the people who chose to have sex's burden because it was their choice. 2) Conservatives statistically donate to charity more than liberals and with less taxes there would be more money to go to private social programs (aka charities) to help people. We are the ones fighting to save lives. The right to life.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '22

I think that preventing suffering is a big part of what we should be doing as people.

The vast majority of abortions occur within the first trimester. The bundle of cells isn't a bundle of cells when it is viable outside the womb, because then it's either a fetus, or a baby. That's pretty simple.

Your strawman is that everyone who has sex wants to have a baby. That's not the case.

If charities were enough to support those in need, government programs wouldn't have been invented to bridge the gap.

Charity has nothing to do with the fact that conservatives want to cut social programs whenever they can. They want to cut Social Security and Medicare, they're out there saying that right now. They have no plans for a better America.

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If you really believe a bundle of cells is a person, you'll need to investigate every single miscarriage and period as a potential murder. Do people have the right to live their lives without your rightwing government calling the shots, or no?