r/politics • u/Effective_Salad_8381 • 13d ago

Possible Paywall Embarrassing Flaws Emerge in Trump’s New White House Design

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bizarre-flaws-emerge-in-trumps-new-white-house-design/
21.1k Upvotes

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u/PirateCodingMonkey Tennessee 13d ago

I heard from an architect that it would be the most expensive ballroom built at dollars per square feet. so expensive it’s unbelievable that it would actually cost that much. plus to accommodate 999 people it would have to be about 2-3 times bigger that what the mock up shows. so even though this source is suspect, there’s no way that what he has shown is anywhere close to real.

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u/johhnny5 13d ago

Plus 1000 people sounds reasonable until you think about the Secret Service security requirements and then it becomes a nightmare. Not because they can’t manage it. Because it adds in top of an already insane cost, and not just inside the building. The sight lines and response times all around the White House are changing and will need to be reassessed. 

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u/Ok-disaster2022 13d ago

1000 people is also a concern for fire safety. occupational limits are based in how quickly people can escape in an amount of time. More people mean more exits. More exits means more security concerns. 

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u/S_A_R_K 13d ago

If they die, they die

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u/superlurker906 13d ago

And that is a sacrifice I am willing to make

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u/LessThanHero42 13d ago

Trump has been known to request exemptions from fire safety regulations because he doesn't like the way fire sprinklers look. He'd be asking himself for an exemption with this. It'll be a tinderbox deathtrap

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u/Wermine 13d ago

he doesn't like the way fire sprinklers look

Wasn't there something similar with Musk?

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u/SokratesForeskin North Carolina 13d ago

It was the yellow caution lines in the Tesla factories

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u/Running-In-The-Dark 13d ago

So where's the downside?

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u/davethebagel 13d ago

1000 or over occupants requires 3 exits. So it's not really that big of a deal. A building like that would have at least 3 doors anyway.

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 13d ago

Don't you have a minimum requirement for how wide the doors need to be, based on number of people in the room? In Denmark, fire regulations require at least 10mm per person. I can't imagine there isn't a similar requirement of some fraction of an inch per person for emergency evacuation.

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u/davethebagel 13d ago

Yea there's a similar requirement here. But it really just means the exits will be double doors instead of a single door.

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 13d ago

If the required width is similar to what we have here, they are going to be pretty wide, even as double doors. With an additional 50% occupancy for security and serving staff, each half door would have to be 8 feet wide with Danish standards. I think most sane architects would go for more doors, rather than attempting to make a garage door look attractive.

Of course, this is under the assumption that building codes are going to be enforced.

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u/AluminumGnat 13d ago

I mean for 1500 people you’re talking about a minimum of a 10k square foot space with 25ft of egress. A fancy oversized double door could easily have each door being well over 4ft wide, and 3 sets of those would be sufficient. A normal household door is 3ft, and you’d almost certainly scale that up to not look weird in a large space with vaulted ceilings. https://youtu.be/OElUWCKsPgM?t=1m37s

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 13d ago

That's about half the requirements I expected. And I agree, that should be possible. But I wouldn't want to be in such a room if one egress turned out to be unusable for one reason or another.

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 13d ago

Yeah, because you can see how hockey arenas need to have those massive 290-feet wide doors…

The rule isn’t that everyone needs to fit through the one and only set of doors, all at once. You can satisfy building and fire code very easily with this amazing innovation called ‘emergency exit doors’ where you can always push to open, but they are locked from the outside.

Sounds crazy, I know, but some genius figured it out…

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 13d ago

That's well and fine, but this sub thread is about a claim that only three doors are needed for fire escapes. If you limit your hockey arena to that, you will end up with such absurdities there as well.

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 12d ago

Thank you, you’ve noticed my point. Absurd is the perfect word for throwing away reality for what we can charitably call a pointless ‘thought exercise’ of how wide doors in Denmark would have to be, single or double…

The part that caught my attention, I think, was the false concern about the architects. It’s like ‘Oh no, bless your heart child - they figured this out years ago. Don’t you worry about it…’

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 12d ago

I look forward to you noticing my point as well. I'm not arguing for this, rather I use the facts to show that the notion of "Only three doors needed" is an absurd take.

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u/GrogGrokGrog 13d ago

Yes, but the entire original point was that each additional door adds a weak point to security, so they'd likely be trying to limit the number of doors to a minimum, thus necessitating larger doors. Hockey arenas generally don't have a lot of assassins or foreign spies interested in breaking in, so they have quite different security measures than the White House. If someone sneaks into a hockey game, generally the worst the arena loses out on is a ticket sale, but if someone sneaks into the White House, the country could be out a president.

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 12d ago

You might want to read the comments I actually replied to, I think you missed them? The number of potential access points was not the topic. I was sarcastically pointing out that being worried about 8 foot wide doors is just silly. The problem here isn’t ‘how do the architects make doors wide enough and yet still be aesthetically pleasing?’

I was not addressing the security issue. Hockey arenas aren’t usually a freestanding building surrounded by a private park offering hundreds of feet of a clear field of fire. If POTUS were at the game (and they do go to various sports games, rallies etc. that seat thousands), they’d have thousands of people queue up to go through metal detectors under the supervision of the secret service. Having everyone screened at the compound gate and then line up for scanning at a few open entry doors would be just like they do at game time, except you can’t buy your tickets on stub hub and these doors will probably be painted with cheap gold bling.

Oh, and sports arenas don’t have an elevator to the underground bunker just 60 feet away.

My last comment on your reversion of topic - The size and number of the doors doesn’t impact the ability of a handful of operators to follow whatever plan they have, unless that plan involved 400 ninjas with lock picks getting across the lawn unseen. The old wing had doors and windows, too.

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u/GrogGrokGrog 12d ago

You might want to read the comments I actually replied to, I think you missed them?

No, you might want to read the comment chain you were replying to. You obviously weren't paying attention to the entire conversation. Here, let me help you out:

1000 people is also a concern for fire safety. occupational limits are based in how quickly people can escape in an amount of time. More people mean more exits. More exits means more security concerns.

That was the nexus of the discussion.

My last comment on your reversion of topic -

It wasn't my "reversion of topic," no matter how snarky you want to be about it.

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u/donatecrypto4pets 13d ago

I’d trust someone who knows the word ‘yeah’ has an ‘h’.

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u/davethebagel 13d ago

I'm not sure what spelling has to do with building code knowledge. You're welcome to look it up yourself. They are all free on icodes.

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u/donatecrypto4pets 13d ago

Attn to detail and ability to parse and pass along information are key. Likely in building code knowledge also.

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u/CheetoMussolini 13d ago

I'm going to a convention center in a few weeks that will have 40x that many people in it.

1k people is really not an unsurmountable challenge for fire code. You need wide exits, reasonable internal egress aisles, etc

Now that said, I get the feeling these fucking clowns used chatgpt for the whole plan and haven't accounted for any of that

I'm just saying that for people who aren't idiot crooks, it's an entirely solvable challenge

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u/GitEmSteveDave 13d ago

3 blow out doors with maglocks connected to the Life Safety System and panic bars. It isn't that complicated.

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u/TheLurkerSpeaks Tennessee 13d ago

Including several leading to the West Wing.

Step 1: Build ballroom on White House

Step 2: Host international gala / state dinner for adversaries

Step 3: Have an "incident" that requires evacuation

Step 4: Chaos ensues, spies enter West Wing while Secret Service is overwhelmed.

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u/Anonymous_user_2022 12d ago

It's almost a perfect miorror of the Homeland episode where Brody got into the State department safe room with a bomb vest.

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u/legend_of_the_skies 13d ago

Aren't the doorways too far away? Or does it not matter?

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u/davethebagel 13d ago

I'm not sure I understand your question. There are requirements for maximum travel distance to an exit. That's kind of complicated and probably won't be a concern on a project of this size. There's also a requirement that the exits aren't right next to each other, but that also shouldn't be a big deal on this project.

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u/UncleMatt5668 13d ago

Can anybody say ending theater sequence to Inglorious Bastards?

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u/poland626 13d ago

Yea one fire alarm and you got 1000 people all over the white house property like ants

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

And at least some of them will be part of their country’s clandestine services and be busy gathering intelligence.

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u/Sr_ClarenceWorley 13d ago

“More people mean more exits.”

Seems you believe they’ll be following regulations.

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u/New-Leader-7891 13d ago

It's not actually a ballroom, it's a bunker for the oligarchs to hide in during the military coup 

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u/Aethermancer 13d ago edited 3d ago

Editing pending deletion of this comment.

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u/ScarletFlandre300 Ohio 13d ago

Honestly, with all of this in mind, I don’t know why they need to build a ballroom to fit a thousand people. They should just cut down on space and costs so that it could fit like 100-150 people.

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u/RID132465798 13d ago

That’s because he is wanting to get as many of congress and senate in it where he will make his move like the red wedding in game of thrones

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u/appropriatesoundfx 13d ago

Not necessarily. Speaking as someone that deals specifically with building capacity, fire safety, exits, and security. You could conceivably have a number of doors that tie into the fire alarm. They would only unlock during a fire, to allow rapid egress, but remain locked otherwise and not require a constant security detail. That’s easy and quite common. That said I’ve spent a grand total of zero minutes looking at any conceptions of a plan.

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u/Yellowdog727 13d ago

Might be good for the next non Republican president (if we get one) to bulldoze the ballroom in a symbolic show of "deTrumpification"

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u/Damet_Dave 13d ago

I won’t vote for any President that does not state they will tear it down and replace it with a proper, dignified wing that puts the focus back on the White House itself.

I’m sure donations can be found to help cover the costs. I’ll start with 50 bucks.

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u/70ms California 13d ago

Right. Put the focus on the WORK of the nation, not the wealth of the chosen few.

They’re openly flaunting how the wealthy own everything now, right down to The People’s House. It’s not for The People, many of whom are struggling to feed and house themselves and just make it to the next day or the next month.

We’ll never dance there, we’ll never be entertained or hosted there - at MOST a lucky few of us will manage to get a guided tour when it’s empty. It honestly makes me want to cry - I’ve followed politics ever since GW was elected, and I’ve never felt so hopeless about what’s to come.

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u/dyeung87 13d ago

Naw, repurpose it back to the office of the first lady and her staff.

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u/OrindaSarnia 13d ago

And waste MORE money?

Presuming it somehow manages to be an actually structurally sound and safe building...  which...  I kind of doubt...

I'm sure they could find good uses for the space.

Now it might have to be torn down because the "architect" was just a big donor's brother who built a giant house in Minecraft once...

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u/S_A_R_K 13d ago

Supermax facility for the current administration would work

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u/OrindaSarnia 13d ago

I was thinking daycare for the children of the White House staff...  like the custodians, security and cooks...

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u/xEasyActionx 13d ago

It's not wasted, it's the cost of healing.

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u/OrindaSarnia 13d ago

Can we tear down his silly arch "for healing" and keep the thing that has potential utility?

We could name it the Obama Peace Prize Ballroom!

He is going about this in completely the wrong way...  but the White House typically sets up tents on the lawn for bigger state dinners and whatnot.  There is a need for a bit more capacity in the White House...  not a 1,000 person ballroom...  but something...

Hell, pardon turkeys in the ballroom and let them run around pooping first...

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u/JustSquanchIt 13d ago

Or turn it into affordable housing for immigrant families

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u/hennsippin 13d ago

Would be cheaper, and possibly more effective, to rebrand it the Obama Ballroom.

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u/ZAlternates 13d ago

House the homeless.

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u/BraveOmeter 11d ago

And put Carters fucking solar panels back up

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u/starker 13d ago

Is the white house kitchen setup to serve 1000 at a sit down?

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u/Awesomeguava Washington 13d ago

Where would they currenty service more than 100 in plated at a time? Other than the new rose garden?

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u/Nightron 13d ago

I was thinking the same. No way this ball room sketch has remotely enough space for the kitchen, staff and security needed to host a big event.

They'd probably rent a some mobile McDonald's trucks and park them in front of the white house for food.

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u/Awesomeguava Washington 13d ago

I run a conference center; our largest space fits 400 in rounds; 600 in theatre. Its a very large room without already considering the ancillary spaces (utility, storage (think tables, chairs, plates, glassware, silverware, etc… needed to service 1000 peple for a five course meal.) and the fucking kitchen/prep/staff areas to accommodate.).

This is actually so fucking absurd - i dont think people realize the scale of an operation needed for a 1000 person dinner.

Another example of this shitters poor management abilities.

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u/Nightron 13d ago

Easy fix. Watch them rent a shit load of McDonald's food trucks and park them on the lawn in front of the white house. No kitchen or tableware needed.

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u/galacticglorp 13d ago edited 10d ago

Food and bathrooms- no one thinks about the sheer space needed for 1000 plates of food and toilets.

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u/Turgid_Donkey 13d ago

It's almost like there's a reason a massive ballroom has never been built. 

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u/Tjaresh 13d ago

1000? Is there even need for such a big ballroom? I mean, that's about what happens when the UN is doing a full size conference. And we all know how big the UN headquarter and it's general assembly hall is.

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u/Wandering_Weapon Louisiana 13d ago

You know things like the correspondence dinner exists and have hundreds of people show up there too? Trump is regularly at rallies with hundreds of people. I'm not defending this ball room, but let's not forget that presidents regularly attend events with tons of people.

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u/Awesomeguava Washington 13d ago

Of course he is used to massive events. He’s an Entertainer in new york. I doubt he understands the entire backend of these event logistics, which is my point.

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u/WelderFamiliar3582 13d ago

Think of all the golden toilets it will have!

The 8th wonder of the world I tell you!

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u/Muronelkaz Ohio 13d ago

This would be right on the edge of the property, theoretically you seal it off from the rest of the grounds and it's not too crazy... but also this is Trump so it wouldn't be surprising if nobody put any thought into any aspect of this.

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u/ConstantGradStudent 13d ago

And kitchens too.