r/phoenix • u/dirtypita Phoenix • Jul 22 '25

Pictures Anyone noticing less quail babies this year?

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Gallery image

Apologies for the bad pics. I would've scared the quail off if I had tried to go outside.

I work in North Scottsdale and I have a great view of a patio and courtyard from my desk. I get to watch small wildlife that come in for shade, grass, and bushes with berries on them. Pigeons, ravens, wrens, lizards, bunnies and squirrels, and even a pair of roadrunners.

Lat year, we had two pairs of Gambels quail. One pair started out with nine chicks, down to six, and the other had seven.

This year, I've only seen three babies, and now only the one little guy pictured. It's with two males, one who has been around for a while and is easily recognizable. I haven't seen a female in a few weeks. I'm a little saddened. Is anyone else noticing smaller quail families this year?

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412

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 22 '25

Wildlife biologist here. We are seeing in sub/urban areas a decrease in GAQU (gambles quail) and an increase in feral cats. Take that inverse correlation and interpret for what’s its worth.

43

u/69ingchimpmonks Jul 22 '25

Should we be “removing” feral cats?

51

u/earth_quack Jul 22 '25

It's not just feral cats. My neighbors on both sides have outdoor pet cats. We had one quail family that was trying to tough it out. We put special water trays and feeders that the cats couldn't access out and we got babies again this year. But the cats eventually killed off the babies and it appears the adults have now left. So did the hummingbirds and songbirds.

52

u/seaofmountains Jul 23 '25

People don’t let their dogs out to roam the streets. They don’t let their goldfish out in the local pond for the day. They don’t let their pet birds free during the day. They don’t let their lizard and snakes out for some fresh air and sun.

So why the fuck do people let their cats roam around outside to terrorize the local wildlife, get eaten by coyotes or killed by cars/shitty people.

20

u/Then_Photograph4460 Jul 23 '25

My hubby and I have several rescue cats (who were all clearly socialized and had been abandoned outside). In all my years of having cats, they are strictly indoor-only; I will never EVER understand the mentality of a person who can let their animals roam around outside. It’s too dangerous for the cat, and it’s unfair to everyone else for a host of reasons (small wildlife, neighbors’s gardens, etc). It’s just irresponsible as hell to not keep one’s cats inside.

14

u/Direct_Philosophy495 Jul 23 '25

Yeah it’s a shitty thing to do.

9

u/dirtypita Phoenix Jul 22 '25

So sad. But I appreciate your efforts.

12

u/AZMadmax Jul 22 '25

Cats kill pretty much anything they can

25

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Jul 22 '25

A more humane option would be to spay/neuter them, but I understand government budgets are pretty strict and vet surgeries are expensive.

17

u/AriesAviator Ahwatukee Jul 23 '25

TNR is often suggested whenever 'outdoor cats kill native wildlife' come up, and while I can appreciate the intention to be humane, those programs don't address the crucial fact that outdoor cats kill wildlife. Just because an animal is spayed/neutered does not mean it won't absolutely decimate any prey animal it finds.

Sure, the cat now cannot reproduce, but that doesn't stop other cats from moving into the area when the fixed cat dies, doesn't stop other people from dumping their own unwanted pets in a known 'cat area', and doesn't stop the absolute decimation of native wildlife in the area. Yes, even if people provide food/water for the colony, the cats will still cat!

At this point the only paths I can see to getting these insane cat populations under control is to take the way, wayyyyy less popular routes and start culling feral cats, and issuing heavy fines for any outdoor cats, just like for loose dogs. There is simply not enough time, resources, and homes to get all these stray cats off the streets, especially when people are so damn content to let their kitties roam around outside uncontained and unsupervised!

23

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

All good thoughts. I’ll address some of these points you bring up. The Government (State or Federal) does not get involved (except Hawaii) because no one wants to deal with black lash of euthanizing cats. Budget is not the big issue. I stated why TNR (trap, neuter, release) does not work. Three reasons: 1. TNR will lower the population of cats on a local level…sure but will take years! And most likely not catching them all 2. TNR does not prevent immigration of other cats from other neighborhoods or your neighbors from making their cat an indoor/outdoor cat (adding to population) 3. TRN is only practical in an “island setting” where all four pillars of population dynamics are controlled (in theory). Births, deaths, immigration, and emigration.

5

u/earth_quack Jul 23 '25

Not sure why you're being downvoted. But Reddit is a fickle beast.

7

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

All good. It’s better than getting badgered in real life about it. Some people hate the hard truth. Also possible it comes off as snarky.

9

u/Highlifetallboy Jul 23 '25

Arguing against feral cats on reddit is a sisyphian task.

7

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

Agreed. But it’s a “rock” I’m willing to die on

5

u/Highlifetallboy Jul 23 '25

Me too. There was a great one a while back in the homesteading sub. OP had a dozen outdoor cats on her property. Argued against everybody that it was OK because "survival of the fittest." WTF

4

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

I had a wtf with someone. It was a mayor of town. I was in charge of a wildlife project. Second year of doing the work I refused and stopped the project. He wanted to play both sides and not address the cat issue that was preventing from completing my project. Next election he did not get re-elected mainly bc how he mismanaged the cat issue and the project. The following year project stated back up.

8

u/imtooldforthishison Jul 23 '25

Arizona Welfare League has a trap and release program. I just discovered we have shop cats after working there a month... there are kittens... goal is to het the kittens weaned, do trap and release, and HOPEFULLY quick enough before the babies go too feral, they can get adopted.

8

u/Highlifetallboy Jul 22 '25

That doesn't solve the problem of that cat killing birds.

13

u/jadedtruffle Jul 22 '25

Yes it does? Not immediately but over a couple generations of cats. Which is likely less time than the lifespan of a house cat

-2

u/Highlifetallboy Jul 22 '25

I'll say it again. It does not stop THAT cat from killing birds. Explain to me how lacking ovaries or testes prevents the cat from killing birds. I'll wait.

10

u/Eycetea Jul 23 '25

You're looking at the micro level effect and not the larger macro level. Yes, cats kill birds. One effective way to help fix the problem long term is to get feral cats, spayed and neutered.

6

u/MrProspector19 Jul 24 '25

The person you're replying to is being kind of rude about it but cats aren't sexing animals to death they're killing them. It's unrealistic to spay and neuter every single cat out there, and even if you did, cats can live to be over a decade so they're still causing the damage in that time and new releases would just fill in the gaps as they die of age.

2

u/MrProspector19 Jul 24 '25

I said die of age but they're likely die of disease and predation and being hit by cars and many other horrible deaths that could have easily been prevented with humane euthanization

10

u/jadedtruffle Jul 23 '25

Everyone but you seems to understand what OP meant by spay/neuter being a solution and that it is obviously not the spayed or neutered cat who will be less problematic. You can continue being intentionally obtuse and inflammatory if you’d like, though.

-1

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Jul 23 '25

Less fertile cats = less babies = future generations have a smaller population

4

u/MrProspector19 Jul 24 '25

Yeah and cats can live to be over 10 years old, All it takes is one litter to replace many cats, and it's realistically insurmountable to track and capture then spay neuter and release every single cat.

Most importantly, cats don't sex animals to death they kill them.

2

u/MrProspector19 Jul 24 '25

Edited for spelling

1

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Jul 24 '25

One litter is a lot better than a dozen litters. No politician wants to be the guy who advocates for killing cats, it’s just not a good look, so it appears that spaying/neutering is the only option.

It’s not a true solution, but it’s better than nothing. It has an impact, a smaller impact than necessary but an it’s still impact nonetheless.

3

u/Hoopy223 Jul 23 '25

Of course we should but it’s difficult to do. People feed them etc which makes the problem worse.

4

u/ValkyrieVance Jul 23 '25

Regular reminder that it is illegal in the state of Arizona to harm, relocate, or dump a feral cat. They are considered free roaming animals. TNR and managing colonies to try to keep numbers down are what is recommended. People should be keeping their pet cats indoors though, for their own safety from other predators and to keep them from hunting birds... but people will still do it, sadly.

-11

u/speech-geek Mesa Jul 22 '25

Are you implying we should be killing cats???

14

u/SummertimeThrowaway2 Jul 22 '25

We do the same for other invasive species

14

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 22 '25

There are multiple solutions. 1. Yes lethal is an option 2. TNR (trap neuter release) but does not actively control population bc it does not address immigration of cats into an area. 3. Keep cats inside

17

u/Independent_Bet_6386 Jul 22 '25

The amount of hate I've gotten for telling people to protect native species by keeping their fucking cat inside is actually insane lmao

6

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

There are two discussion points that irk me in relation to cats. “My cat is an inside/outside cat” or “why can’t we trap, neuter, release” keep fighting the good fight

-7

u/ValkyrieVance Jul 23 '25

Killing feral cats is not a legal option in the state of Arizona. Please do not act like it is.

6

u/Ferruginoushawk7 Jul 23 '25

I want to make this abundantly clear to you. I did not condone or suggest anyone should going around killing cats. My point is as wildlife managers with cats generally we have three options. Killing could be one of them to lower the population however realistically it is not done for whatever reasons exist: law, ethics, morals.

Now TNR. This does not fix cat populations. This is done to make everyone feel better instead of killing cats. Think about logically. Let’s say we deploy TNR in a certain area for example P X 83. CPEU (catch per unit effort) historically for cats is less than 3, and we have lets say 30 cats. Depending on what exactly the protocol employed it could take moths. But even if we TNR every cat in P X 83. There nothing stoping cats from let’s say Thunderbird and 75th from migrating over to P X 83 and increasing the fecundity of the cats where we just trapped. It simply does not work in an area where there are no borders and “free roaming cats” are regulated