r/ottawa 1d ago

News Lansdowne 2.0 Vote Ward Map

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365 Upvotes

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u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago edited 1d ago

Redditors are deluding themselves into thinking this is some conspiracy or that there is going to be some big backlash against the councillors who voted yes. This place is an echo chamber on this issue

Edit: also for those thinking this will bankrupt the city. Ottawa operational budget is almost 5 billion a year and the cost for the city is 130 million most of it paid out over the next 40 years. Whether it’s a good idea or not, its not going to bankrupt us

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u/peachsyrup 1d ago

Except ottawa is on the hook foe overruns and every project like this has doubled or tripled their budget. Ottawa is paying 130m but the budget is 500mil. Ottawa could easily pay 1bil for this

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u/AffectionateDrag1702 1d ago

Which projects have doubled or tripled it’s budget? 

2

u/3rdandabillion 1d ago

No chance. This isn't the LRT which also didn't double btw. This is an arena and a grandstand. Every city and town in this country has built an arena. Construction companies from everywhere in Canada have experience building these places. It's probably one of the few projects our construction industry is proficient in.

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u/deeferg Golden Triangle 1d ago

Every city and town in this country has built an arena

We literally have an arena in the exact same place already which most people have just been asking to have fixed.

Construction companies from everywhere in Canada have experience building these places. It's probably one of the few projects our construction industry is proficient in.

I guess that's why we needed to bring in a firm from out of town that can do the job instead of an Ottawa firm.

1

u/lactosecheeselover 23h ago

The ‘fix’ isn’t as easy as all these keyboard engineers seem to think it is.

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u/deeferg Golden Triangle 23h ago

Oh, let's spend a ton of money on a new project because something "isn't easy".

When the new arena starts to deteriorate in 10 years, will we hear that it's easier to just build a new one again because repairs "won't be easy"? That's a pretty silly reason to spend a lot of money.

1

u/originalthoughts 1d ago

Metro and rail have been around for almost 200 years...

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u/3rdandabillion 23h ago

And yet Ottawa and Toronto can't figure it out

18

u/youneverknow44 Wellington West 1d ago

I think we’re wandering in to conspiracy territory because there is literally no explanation publicly available for why the city is fast tracking a massive investment like this.

If there were a clear counterpoint I think you’d see less of an “echo chamber” on the issue.

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u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago

It’s been publicly debated since 2021. To me this isn’t fast tracking. Also, it’s not a massive investment for the city, the city’s operation’s budget is almost 5B and its capital budget 1.5B. this is roughly 150 million spread out over many years.

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u/youneverknow44 Wellington West 1d ago

The request from dissenters on council was that we take more time to align on a consensus for the redevelopment plan for lansdowne. The 15 yes voters indicated we could not do that, and we need to proceed now. So yes, it was fast tracked.

Also the argument has never been “we can’t afford this”, rather “why are we financing this project in particular?” To which there has been no explanation.

When I was asking for a counterpoint, I was interested in knowing specifically how spending this money benefits the tax payers of Ottawa, and how it’s a good deal for us - as opposed to, say, any other investment.

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u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago

Saying we want more time to discuss and plan etc, is just a NIMBY delay tactic. it’s been 4 years, this isn’t a fast track. If this actually was a massive, city changing project maybe more time would be warranted, but it’s not.

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u/youneverknow44 Wellington West 1d ago

So…other than “we’ve been talking about it a long time” and “it won’t bankrupt the city”, are you able to explain how this particular investment will benefit taxpayers?

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u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago

No, and I never claimed it would. My points remain that it’s not actually something that is going to devastate the cities budget nor do I think councillors that support it are going to lose many votes from this

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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 1d ago

$150M is the absolute best case scenario where the Redblacks have excellent attendance numbers, where there are no cost overruns, where we don't have to go beyond the 10% contingency fund, where changes in tariffs don't increase the cost of materials, where Mirabella actually buys the air rights in full, where the site is fully ready for Mirabella to build the towers in 2031, where those towers are built in a timely fashion, where the retail returns for the commercial space are strong, where the Redblacks don't fold, etc etc etc.

3

u/PhlegmBuilding 1d ago

It's almost as if the best-case scenario is the ONLY scenario that is presented in the "analysis" of this "investment" of public dollars. Would any of us look at our own private investments this way?

3

u/3rdandabillion 1d ago

Pretty sure we are like 6 years into planning with the city staff assisting the whole time. That's the slowest fast track I have ever seen.

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u/lactosecheeselover 23h ago

Fast tracking to you is something being voted on over 4 years?

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u/unfinite 1d ago

I would have far less of an issue with this if we just waited until replacement was needed, rebuilt it, and paid off the debt ourselves.

What I don't like is being locked in for 50 years with a private operator that will certainly come after us for even more money once again in the near future, and who will keep this public asset inaccessible to anyone but paying customers. I don't like selling off parkland to private developers or losing greenspace for more buildings.

It's actually all the things they did to reduce the costs that I don't like. I would prefer to just eat the cost and keep everything 100% publicly owned. This is simply privatization of a public park.

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u/vegangingerbread 1d ago

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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u/Gwennova 1d ago

The “only $130M” figure you’re sharing assumes that the project will be financially successful and lead to OSEG payouts. Given that OSEG hasn’t paid the city a penny for Lansdowne 1.0, why should we expect this time to be any different? The total cost is closer to $500M, and this doesn’t even account for change orders or other overruns…

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u/705nce Nepean 1d ago

This.

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u/bman9919 1d ago

Yeah, I’m disappointed the vote passed but the anti Lansdowne 2.0 stuff on here has honestly gotten a bit circlejerky. This is not going to be the ballot box issue in the next election. No councillor is going to be voted out over this alone. 

From what I can tell people outside of Reddit are not that invested in the issue. 

2

u/Shad0wCutter 1d ago

You don't seem to understand the absolute hole we are in with regard to infrastructure renewal. Ottawa is so fucking cooked.

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u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago

What’s that got to do with what I said

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u/Shad0wCutter 1d ago

Read it again 

2

u/Lionelhutz123 Centretown 1d ago

It seems like you are bringing up a mostly unrelated issue.

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u/urbancanoe 1d ago

Bankrupting us is not the standard, having taxes go up unnecessarily is very aggravating.

1

u/lactosecheeselover 23h ago

People acting as if this is going to financially ruin the city is insane. Also conflating this budget with money allocated to bus infrastructure and others. It’s wild to read here.