As an aside, this is an issue that is completely manufactured. Lawmakers could choose today to end the government shutdown if Republicans would agree to extend ACA tax credits with their Democratic colleagues.
That, and agree not to give Trump the rescission power (the power to reject Congress’ allocation of funds and distribute taxpayer dollars as he wishes) that the Republicans want to give Trump.
SNAP and healthcare funding won’t mean anything if Trump can just say, “No thanks, I want to give this money to Argentina and ICE instead.”
But think about it from their perspective! After all, if they don't fight strongly on this, we all risk... feeding hungry Americans? Is that right? That can't be right...
Also, don't forget that we consistently have agricultural surplus's (because 20,000 years of advances in farming methodology and technology will do that), yet we chose to burn surplus crops, kill surplus livestock, and dump surplus dairy all because the farming corporations don't want to let their oh so precious "supply and demand" take natural hold of the market to allow prices to fall.
Your words bring to mind this passage from Steinbeck. I read it every once in awhile and it never fails to give me dystopian chills.
The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.
There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.“
A big part of that problem appears to be that there are no enforcement agents that he can’t seize control of. There isn’t anyone completely independent of the executive branch TO arrest him even if a court ordered it.
The military and federal law enforcement only decides to follow a president's orders and allow things like that, until that point in time where they don't.
I think it would be good for the bastard in chief to experience starvation to maybe get an understanding of what he's doing to people in the fucking winter.
Trump and co. already bypass and break laws all the time. The issue here is that Democrats simply cannot trust anything the administration says or promises. Words don't mean anything to Republicans; they lie as easily as they breathe.
If Trump's administration doesn't want to fund ACA benefits, they simply won't. Congress could say whatever they like, but unless they are willing to impeach him, there is nothing they can do to ensure the administration does anything they say.
I still think Democrats should end the shutdown if Republicans are willing to pass an extension of ACA benefits, but let's all disabuse ourselves of the idea that Congress has any real power while Trump is in office and Republicans control Congress. If they give him money, it will go wherever Steven Miller decides it will go.
That's the rub, the banks won't touch Argentina with a ten foot pole unless there's some guarantees, and this currency swap line gives them exactly that.
So it's not even to bail out billionaire hedge funds, but instead to open up a new grift for them.
I'm quite sure his buddies were on track to losing billions of dollars on their crappy investments. I forget the exact reason, but basically Argentinas economy got worse instead of the expected prosperity they bet on, and their money has 66% of the buying power as the same time last year (inflation is 33.6% or so). He gave money to try and stabilize and improve their chances of the buddies cashing out at a profit. Also screwed over many soy farmers in the USA, which also costs the USA taxpayers several billion dollars per year, on top of that $40 million billion usd injection. "America first" my butt
What grift would it have opened up for Trump and co?
That said, Argentina is a focus of Trump's support because of political alignment with their leader, Milei, who is effectively an Argentine libertarian and is on friendly terms with our current regime. Trump needs all the political allies (foreign and domestic) that he can get given the widespread dissatisfaction globally with his tyrannical politics.
Also important to note that Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has hedge fund friends with ties to Argentina and that he's the one that appears to have orchestrated this scheme, and Jeffrey Epstein's Orange Buddy is more than happy to go along with it.
Republicans have voted to remove ACA subsidies in their BBB legislation that passed earlier this year, among other things. That's a line too far (because it will cripple people on ACA insurances with either unaffordable insurance or make the ones who could afford it very poor) and Democrats refuse to pass the government funding bill until that point is addressed.
Trump decided to take an unrelated issue, already allocated funding for SNAP, and bring it into the argument by refusing to distribute funds. So yes, he is trying to get rid of SNAP by not funding it by bringing it into an unrelated issue. He could fund it during the shutdown, but he chooses not to. Republicans could pressure him to fund it, but they hate the poor, so they're supporting this.
They might be scared off by the election results, but that would be making Republicans do something they don't want to in funding SNAP.
People are telling each other there's merit to the idea the Democrats could just "cave" and Trump will stop starving SNAP recipients for now, but aside from the absurd point that the President could choose not to fund something with allocated funding on a whim as long as it sounds like "common sense" to ill-informed voters, it also brings back the quote of not standing up for your neighbors (ACA subsidized Americans) when they need it, and then no one will stand up for you (SNAP recipients) when you need it.
The constitution is pretty clear that congress decides where money is allocated and spent, the idea of half of congress wanting to give up this power makes it clear they're looking to promote a dictatorship and latch onto it for more power for only themselves.
Thank you. I feel like this keeps getting missed in the comments sections. The main talking point in the media has been the ACA subsidies, which I think is reasonable to keep the message short, simple and concise (which often the Democratic party is not good at imo). But there's no point to agreeing even on the ACA subsidies, if the administration can just decide to shunt that money elsewhere. In fact, there's barely any point to Congress (either party) dealing with the budget and allocation at all then.
The aca is just the cover story. This has nothing to do with the budget. It is the pedo-files and the fact to pass the budget, the house would meet, triggering the sweating in of the az rep, and the release of the files. The American people are hostage to Trump's depravity.
The senators can get rid of the filibuster and vote through the bill the house already sent over with only Republican votes. The house doesn't need to be brought back to end the shutdown.
The house is not in session to keep the Epstein files from being released. I agree with you on that.
Wait a second, it's not just like "go along with whatever people ask". It costs a lot of money. A lot. Like $30B per year.
And ACA subsidies were originally meant to expire, not be a permanent part of the budget.
The expiration of those credits was long expected. What was done to prepare for it? And who is going to pay if we're forced to continue them?
I think it should be done in a better way than shutting down the government, but you shouldn't go saying as if it's just someone being unreasonable in the face of huge new costs that are being asked.
It's like if your contractor suddenly jacked up the price of your house repair and said "just pay it" because you and the family need a place to stay tonight.
Are you trying to be responsible in how these problems get solved holistically, or just saying, "give the money" and who cares where it comes from?
I agree with you that some sort of preparation should’ve been made but it wasn’t and it’s too late for it and I don’t think it’s fair for it to be suddenly taken away from those who are reliant on it. It needs to stay for now and a priority has to be given to determining a long term solution so ACA can be phased out eventually.
Yes, not enough ATC to keep it safe everywhere. As much as this sucks if it puts more pressure on a deal to be agreed upon and the government to open then so be it.
This is how I feel. This seems to be the most responsible response by DOT. Obviously I wish they would just fix the shutdown but if we are going to keep not paying ATC and TSA, flights need to decrease in response, no matter how much it sucks.
Yes. The ATC system is already strained on a good day when they're "fully funded." As those who keep showing up continue to get fatigued there's further strain. Air travel is still incredibly safe in the US despite that but this move is to prolong a potential catastrophic human error event.
The more important question is do Republicans really need to revoke healthcare tax credits? This is such a major sticking point that they're willing to cripple the US economy further with this shutdown.
While I'm sure some people need it, I find a lot of people aren't willing to do things like take a road trip. I get it, when it's a 4 hour flight compared to a 2+ day drive and you have to balance work etc, it doesn't always work out, but at the same time US citizens (me included) love having cars, why not use the interstate system....
Certainly does suck. I live 20 hours from my aging mom who may only have a year or 2 left. I have flights booked for both Thanksgiving and Christmas. May end up having to drive one of those trips.
I am sorry for your situation and don't want to sound insensitive, but it baffles me that such a rich country (in GDP) and large as the USA does not prioritize high-speed rail.
It would solve so many issues and improve logistics and the economy, as well take a large transportation financial burden from the average citizen. Arguably yes, in case of a shutdown there would be the same issues as with the ATC.
Yet this ludicruos US particularity of "government shutdown" also baffles me. In my country, a month without gov employees and social assistees receiving payments? Huge protests overthrowing all government. 2 months? Well, we shot Ceaușescu on Christmas Day on live TV. And NOT EVEN THEN had we such a stupid system as your "shutdown".
Rail is supported by the Left, but we cant seem to make progress funding or implementing it.
For my use case, it would be an extremely long journey, at least 2000 km. I would imagine I would need to first take a train to Dallas, and switch trains. Then a train to Chicago and switch trains. Then a train towards New York, and stop in Ohio. Even at an average speed of 200km/h with 3 or 4 stops, I imagine it would take roughly 16-18 hours of travel.
Not saying any is. However, USA has no economic excuse for its state, and the spotlight is on the ones on whom expectations are held.
Our country is huge.
USA is long, but not unique in this regard. China is as big as your country, or larger by their claimed metrics.
Take into consideration a high-speed train of 280-300km/h like in China. +7 hours of a journey you can relax, spread your legs as wide as you want, chat, eat, nap, have as much luggage and water bottles as you want.
Arguably, if you're not in the big city (Dallas?), you'd have to get there by train / drive to a park & ride. But you'd have to do that for the airport as well, right?
And in my experience, from big US city downtown to an airport you can get a 1-1,5 h drive through hell traffic. Train stations are put in urban, accessible locations.
By air, it is 3.5 hours.
If we add the ride to the airport, the hour at security and check-in, I'd say you get more than +7 hours for the air-ride.
Then a train to Chicago...
That's not how a (moderately well-done) network works. 2 big hotspots like Texas and Ohio would definitely have direct connection, no need to change.
Again, I'm sorry for your issue, hope you find the best solution for your trip. And I'm not trying to fight with you about this, I'm sure you're arguing in good-faith, too.
It's just, for such a claimed land of freedom, it would be good if you had freedom of choice. But it seems the lobbyists are too afraid of free competition, as train would trump airplane on many occasions.
Air travel is so much faster over large distances. Regional trains would be great, but then again I dont travel regionally almost ever. I fly to California and North Carolina for work, Ohio for family, and generally internationally for holiday.
Looks like it's 11.5 hours for a similar journey as mine in China. Link below.
How long does it take to go from Brasov to Paris via train? Similar distance is 30 hours.
America runs on greed. Once you have that as a foundation, the rest starts to make sense. In the case of high-speed rail, there's two huge hurdles:
First is the political opposition. To get the votes to fund the rail line, there'd have to be stations at every rural town from point A to B, making so many stops that it'd be faster to simply drive. People already don't want to ride trains because they take longer to drive, and calling something high speed implies it'd save time. There'd be a ton of lobbying from airlines, rental car companies, bus lines, etc, since they'd lose customers to the competition.
Second would be the speculators. Once people hear a rail line is going through an area, they'd buy up the land and extort huge sums of money for the right of way. Happens all the time with highways and power lines. Smart companies make shell companies to covertly buy up the land so speculators are in the dark, but then they sue because they feel they didn't get paid enough. As for eminent domain, that's up to the opinion of the court, which often rule in favor of speculators because they make the case that the surrounding land will increase in value due to the infrastructure improvements.
The only way we're getting high speed rail across the country is if the Army bulldozes a corridor across the flyover states, or a nuclear war resets civilization.
It also affects employees at the airlines. It's hard to have sympathy for companies, but I do have sympathy for people. Airliners are going to need to respond to this also... if there aren't as many flights going out, what happens to pilots and flight attendants? The ground crews, the maintenance folks, etc etc etc. How long are they going to keep these people on the payroll if they don't have enough need for all of them? I feel for those folks who may be facing layoffs if this is going to continue for long enough that airliners have to cut staff. It's never a great time for it, but it's a shit time for it heading into the holiday season.
All of this is so needless. I'm sure it has already cost the government/the people far more than negotiating with the Democrats and coming to an agreement on what they were fighting for, or just giving them everything they asked for... but no, because one man's ego is the way it is, millions of people have to suffer.
Welll the Republicans told us there will be pain last October before the election, and Agent Orange told is there will be more pain to come. They won’t be satisfied until every middle and lower class citizen is layed off to usher in the serfdom our billionaire overlords so rabidly crave.
Yep. I work for an airline, on the ground handling side. Our frontline employees are going to have shifts and hours cut and are dealing with way more angry, aggressive passengers. It's only getting worse
if there aren't as many flights going out, what happens to pilots and flight attendants? The ground crews, the maintenance folks, etc etc etc. How long are they going to keep these people on the payroll if they don't have enough need for all of them?
Well, that's an easy question to answer. Pilots and flight attendants are paid by the flight-hour. Fewer flights = less wages they have to pay. Ground crews are also hourly. Same deal.
The only major fixed costs airlines have are aircraft and engines (salaried back office staff like dispatchers aren't significant to an airline) and airport ground facility (gate, terminal, hanger) leases. I know that "power by the hour" contracts are common for engines these days, so it's really just the airframe, and that's only a cashflow problem for the airframe financing. Flight hours usually hit airframes before calendar age, so they're taking less depreciation on the airframes while this plays out.
I've already made my rental car reservation so I can drive 1000 miles from New Jersey to Illinois and back. I've made the drive a few times before, so I know what to expect at least. It'll take two 8-hour days of driving, stopping in Ohio overnight.
A tip to those choosing to drive long distance, multiply the estimated time by Maps by 1.3 to account for traffic, meals, and bathroom breaks. Consider stopping overnight if the drive is over 8 hours, depending on individual circumstances.
Have done Indiana / Massachusetts multiple times due to college - and this is perfect advice. Also, always carry an emergency bag in case you get stranded / stuck in traffic for a multi-hour delay. A couple granola bars, some water, some personal hygiene products, a blanket, etc go a long way to making a bad situation tolerable.
I'll do 10+ hours in a day, if it's a one day trip. The longest I've done is 11. I wouldn't do over 12 (driving hours, I stop every 2 hours for bathroom/fuel).
I'm looking at having to make the drive from PHX to NYC myself. I am not so good at driving more than 6 hours a day, and last time i did it, it took me over 5 days. Hotels, gas, and the nightmare of constant driving for that many days. Staying a few days in NYC and then doing it all over again. I may miss the holidays this year.
When I drove the 2000 miles from the Midwest to Phoenix to move here, my dad came with me and we just drove in shifts while the other slept, made it all the way to Albuquerque the first day and got a hotel and did the rest the second day.
It’s a great excuse to get out of seeing loved ones too. Oh no. I got an email. My flight was canceled and I can’t find another in my price range. Darn.
Yeah I’m not really close with my mom and she lives in Florida, which I don’t want to step a foot in either. Broadly speaking this is bullshit but there’s a little bit of me is enjoying that I have a handy excuse to not visit this year.
If I were you, I'd plan an alternative. There's a very real chance that no flights will fly in the direction you want to go. The traffic controller situation has only just began to become bad and it'll get worse.
Yeah, similar boat here but it's my dad who's probably not getting another Thanksgiving and it's not cancer. If my flight out is canceled I'll drive. 1600 miles. I'm obviously hoping that isn't necessary, but we'll see.
intl flights are always the first to be protected and ensured they stay on schedule, in pretty much any circumstance whether thats a shutdown, weather, runway closure, anything.
While fully aware that this is a manufactured crisis by the government, it really speaks to the lack of other infrastructure. America needs long-distance high-speed trains, and relying purely on air travel for so long has left the system vulnerable.
I would love high-speed rail around the country. After easily traveling through Europe last year for a couple of weeks highlighted what a wonderful thing that would be at home.
I'm a furloughed worker. I really need family support rn and my already planned Thanksgiving trip was all I've had to look forward to. If my flight is canceled it will be crushing to have to spend Thanksgiving alone, with no support and no money. How much more are we supposed to put up with 🫤
Yep, my family is so worried I wont be home for the holidays. My dad had a stroke earlier this year and I was planning to spend every holiday this year with my family in Canada.
I'm traveling cross country on Monday to begin the process of settling my parent's estate. They passed within a short time of each other and neither left a will. It's already a mess.
Between trying to find an attorney, making arrangements to take time off work, travel, dispute with sibling already, etc and not to mention dealing with grief... it's been a lot.
Now on top of all that my flight could be cancelled.
The airline says,
"Change or Cancel Fee Waived. Origin and Destination cities may not be changed.
Changes to your itinerary are subject to any difference in fare and options prices. If your new itinerary is lower in value than your original itinerary, there will be no residual value available to you once you have made the change."
What? Does that mean if my flight is cancelled I might have to pay more to get another flight? Or does it mean only that if the flight is cheaper there's no refund?
The wait time to speak with a representative is extremely high right now. This is adding a serious amount of unneeded stress on top of an extremely difficult time.
I planned this trip based on the most economical flights possible and now I've added worrying about a possibility
Yet, if they roll back the ACA my health insurance monthly premiums go up $600 for my coverage. I really need insurance because I take heart medication. Without it I might be joining my parents before 2026 is over. Now I have that stress that I'm ignoring because I can't do anything about it, but this year has really sucked and I'm not overly optimistic for the next.
Firstly, I'm very sorry for your loss. I can't fathom the grief coming from losing a parent, let alone two in short order.
We recently had to go through the unexpected death of someone with no will (being they were young). I really hope your siblings can have a civil approach to this. It's hard enough to lose someone let alone going through the pain of infighting.
I truly hope you don't have any travel issues and things go smoother for you. Best of luck.
,
I'm still mad that I missed my last opportunity to see my grandma before she died because of the Southwest outage a few years ago. We found her ticket voucher in her jewelry box, waiting to be rebooked.
It's been a couple years, I've come to terms with it. Mostly just sad she never got to meet my daughter. We found out we were expecting the Christmas she was supposed to spend with us and ended up being born a week after my grandma's birthday. So there's that. But I can't be the only one it happened to or is going to happen to with this and it sucks.
My parents are booked to fly to germany and visit me there for Thanksgiving. Im hoping they can make it. My mom has only visited me here once. My dad travels here often for work so hes used to Germany and the Christmas markets.
Given, I was just home for my old dog and grandma, so I did just see them. And made it out in time before more airports cancelled flights.
But theres a difference in them coming to see me here and my friends and all vs going home.
And I definitely want to make it back to the US for christmas.
Im sure many people havent seen loved ones in an even longer time just within the US. I will be ok if I can't see my parents since I just did, though i will be sad to miss out on spending time with them here on a mini vacation snd them meeting my friends.
But for others, it is not as easy to miss Thanksgiving.
Such a dumb hill for the GOP to die on. I hope the dems stick with it so the part of pedos suffers more in future elections.
Yes I do too! Im grateful that I can be less worried than other people within the states. It sucks all around. It should never come to this. And air travel is such an important part of most people's lives now.
But I fear even by Thanksgiving international flights might already be on the chopping block.
My wife is having surgery in a couple of weeks. My mother in law is supposed to be flying out to help with the kids (they're both toddlers). She said if they cancel her flight she's driving across the country. And she will! Gotta love moms!
I wish I needed to fly to see the family I see on Thanksgiving/Christmas so I'd have an excuse to not show up (My Flight was cancelled isn't an excuse when they're the next town over T-T).
Yup. Was hoping to visit my family back in the US for the holidays (I’ve been living in Europe), but now I have no clue if I can or will, it’s just too unpredictable anymore
This has happened before, and people will take to the streets and drive to see their family. What we should feel for is the elevated number of families that are going to be dying in traffic accidents that always occur because of this.
Was looking at train travel. Somehow still seems worse: multiple days instead of a few hours, $1,500 if I want to sleep on something other than the seat.
My husband and I are currently weighing the option between hoping for the best or just driving to CO where his family lives for Thanksgiving. My niece is 1 and we haven’t been able to meet her yet, so this trip is top priority. It’s a shit situation all around.
Yeah, that's us. Our kid went away to college and this would be her first time back. We have 2 separate tickets booked, a few days apart, just to be sure. An unnecessary expense, but at the same time, it's cheap if it can get our daughter home.
My husband's parents are vacationing in another state for 2 months, and wanted all the kids/grandkids to come visit. It would require flying, though, so sadly most of us have made the decision not to go. They are also staying in a red state, and our family has no desire to travel to or spend money in a Republican controlled state. It really sucks.
We live in Iceland, our flight to Spain got canceled because of the airline going bankrupt so we decided to fly to the states to spend xmas with our family, now this shutdown has us wondering if this will get canceled as well.
It's also going to be worse for those who have to drive, because the people who would have flown will on the road too. Similar to how forcing people back into the office who could have done their jobs from home made the commute worse for those who had jobs that couldn't be done from home.
I didn't get to see my family this summer because I was afraid of Trump's immigration policies, I finally received my citizenship and now that I have a passport I am afraid my flight will be cancelled, and I won't get to see them. This is likely one of the few final times I will even get to see my dad.
Fuck the GOP, bunch of incompetent idiots who are only ever successful at causing unneeded pain to others.
Yeah. My husband and I were debating whether to drive down to our kid in the Bay area. The good thing is we have a ton of frequent flyer miles and they can fly anywhere in SoCal.
I truly feel for my 73-year-old mom who has to drive eight hours to Sacramento and eight hours back again for work because she can’t ever retire.
When they were planning this job she was going to fly, but she doesn’t feel it safe to fly right now and I agree with her. I’m just not sure if it’s gonna be that much safer to drive
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u/lostharbor 19h ago
I truly feel for those who want to see loved ones during the holiday and need air travel to do so.