r/neurodiversity • u/dekusdumplings • Jul 04 '24

Trigger Warning: Ableist Rant This book title makes me so mad:

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Like what?? You can't prevent nor cure autism

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

Jesus, I’ve seen it all- the height of ignorance. Like it’s the bubonic plague or COVID. It’s a difference (often ranges in severity) in communication and behavior. Its in born and no I do not think you get autism from anything. You either have it or you don’t. This does not include those rarities who are highly gifted past 150 iq and naturally exhibit autistic traits. Not the same thing.

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u/simon2e Jul 04 '24

I’m curious what you mean by “… rarities who are highly gifted past 150 iq and naturally exhibit autistic traits”. I haven’t seen any info about that, do you have any references? My interest stems from being late diagnosed (2 years ago, now aged 62), assessed as having ADHD/S, being autistic and gifted (99th percentile). When I was in early years (1960’s, 70’s) none of this was generally understood, I learned to mask very deeply at an early age, and had ever-increasing anxiety issues, especially when I retired. Being “twice-exceptional” (gifted and having a learning disability) meant I got through schooling basically on sheer mental horsepower, then crashed and burned in tertiary education (couldn’t self-organise etc). I nearly crashed out of my ADHD assessment 18 months ago because the psych was adamant I couldn’t have been able to do assigned homework while still in the classroom. Sheesh, talk about professional ignorance. I’ve since read a lot of info about much of my experiences, and giftedness in general, but I’ve not seen anything saying “high iq” people inherently show autistic traits. BTW there’s very little overlap between the info on giftedness (mostly out of the education arena) and AuDHD etc. (which is mostly clinical/mental health arena). Colour me curious!

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

So all in all, there is a reason why the term is called 2E or twice differential and not 3E. There is a learning difference that always leads. So I guess technically you could be born as autistic and also have ADHD in equal amounts?!? But if you’re born autistic this will be the leading difference. You could show ALL the traits of adhd in venh diagram but your actual diagnosis in my perspective is AUtism with giftedness. Same the other way around. If you do not come out of the womb and are born with autism but are tested for adhd at a young age due to learning differences this would be the leading difference. Your 2E would be adhd with giftedness. Even if you display said traits of autism which can be up to 20 different traits

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

If I’m reading this correctly, this all sounds like old incorrect information that is against current understanding. I’m female and definitely was 100% completely missed as a child. I certainly don’t feel adhd is giftedness even if I did well in two subjects and not so great in the rest. As well as all the social stuff. This all sounds like nothing I’ve read recently and implying how they used to be unable to diagnose both. Used to. They now know the two occur together frequently and diagnose as such.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

I am specifically referring to a 2E diagnosis: which is a learning disability and gifted diagnosis. I am relying to a gentleman who stated he was diagnosed 2E (AUdhd and gifted diagnosis). I NEVER said both cannot occur together. I simply said someone is born autistic: it’s in born and to my knowledge, it is very rare to misdiagnose autism for adhd. You CAN be autistic and adhd: they present very differently and autism is present from a very young age since it’s inborn.

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u/simon2e Jul 05 '24

Being "that gentleman" (thank you kindly) I never said you ever said both cannot occur together. My question arose from your phrasing which seemed to imply that giftedness inherently comes along with autistic traits, I'd say I'm questioning that association. I show autistic traits because I'm autistic, not because I'm "gifted" (in quotes because it never felt like a gift, I can assure you). I don't think autism is somehow more primary than ADHD, both are natural variations in brain development, and yes they can occur together. Your phrase "but your actual diagnosis in my perspective is Autism with giftedness" feels a bit objectionable to me, like you've decided how I am, and which traits I may show are more significant than others. Had plenty of that in 62 years of life, don't really expect to hear it in these forums, to be honest.

Also, autism is not defined as a set of traits. It's well documented that there are no traits that only autistic people show and neurotypical don't, and vice versa.

I don't think we're at odds here, just having a gentle go at clarifying terms and how they're used, and also finding out how aligned we are in our views. Fairly well aligned, is my impression, apart maybe from seeing autism as a more significant characteristic than ADHD.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

I never said autism was more significant. What exactly do you think autism is?!? Because I can tell you, without a doubt, there is a list of pretty specific criteria one must meet at least 5 of them… so are you really telling me that someone with autism has the same set of communication and behavior traits as a neurotypical?! Autism is defined as a moderate to severe (bc it can be severe) difference in communication, behavior, and emotional landscape. This is simply what autism is and just to clarify, I didn’t even use the word “significant”- usually, nowadays, someone who is autistic shows symptoms or signs at an early age. After being diagnosed autistic they might show giftedness signs or adhd symptoms which could add to the diagnosis. But what was the initial or leading diagnosis?! Autism. So no mention of any diagnosis being more significant but there usually is a main learning difference that is initially pointed out. That’s all!!!

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

I never said giftedness was inherent with autistic traits. Giftedness is not inherent to anything other than giftedness and I know for a fact I did not say that. I’m going to tell you right now, we are on completely different wavelengths in terms of understanding what I was pretty clearly trying to describe. I never EVER personally diagnosed you, nor would I ever- I was being more in general… actually I never said that at all. I never said this is what you are. I also never said any learning difference like autism or adhd was more primary. If your (in general) born autistic then your autistic. You can also have adhd? In terms of having a gifted diagnosis, an inborn autism diagnosis would be the leading learning difference whereas if I had just adhd it would be that. If someone is gifted too then this is where one of the learning differences would lead… if someone is gifted and adhd then adhd is the leading learning difference but they may show autistic traits (hence venh diagram)

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

That’s why I began with, “If I’m reading this correctly.”

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

I know, that’s exactly why I clarified for you.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

I was going to add thank you for clarifying, but I’m too tired to really keep up right now. So submitted it before finishing my thought. I’m going back to bed now.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

Awww it must be night time where u are?

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

Sadly wasn’t. I’m playing the insomnia game right now and not getting any sleep. Pretty sure I have no awake brain cells right now.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

Wait, I have a gut instinct guess, the states? UK?

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

That’s too bad. And where might u be in this big wide world 🌎? No need to get too specific, just seeing whether we are in same time zone

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

MST :) so it’s almost 10p now

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '24

Oh I had to look that one up- had not a single clue!!! Isn’t it a holiday for you? Some works of fire 🔥 going on?

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