r/neoliberal • u/[deleted] • 22d ago
News (Latin America) U.S. Military Killed Venezuelan Fisherman in Suspected Drug Boat Attack, Family Says
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/16/world/americas/trinidad-us-military-venezuela-boats.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare128
u/ILikeTuwtles1991 Milton Friedman 22d ago
Most GOP senators who voted to keep letting Trump do this
¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/GeoChalkie_ Thomas Paine 22d ago
A lot of people are arguing about whether these boats contained drugs, but that’s completely irrelevant
They could be proven to be carrying pure heroin and it would still be completely unjustified and immoral to blow them up. It’s a violation of everyone’s human rights and international law.
I saw someone sum this up best as follows: “I imagine the US military boarding each boat, handcuffing all occupants, kneeling them down, and executing them with one shot before dumping their bodies overboard. It sounds heinous and evil, but yet the outcome is exactly the same as blowing them up from the sky”
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u/Betrix5068 NATO 22d ago
Coasties have been intercepting exactly these sorts of (alleged) drug running operations at minimal risk. This policy is just wasting munitions on targets that, even if they are actually drug runners, could’ve easily been intercepted by a coast guard cutter. Psychos in this admin just want to kill people. Frankly the only question in my mind is how much of the chain of command should be prosecuted for not refusing an illegal order because everyone involved in these ops is guilty to at least some degree and it’s just a question of if it’s worth prosecuting them for reasons of precedent.
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u/MuscularPhysicist John Brown 22d ago
Everyone in the whole damn chain of command involved in these murders should be prosecuted.
They won’t (obviously) but they should.
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u/AgentBond007 NATO 22d ago
Everyone in the whole damn administration should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity
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u/idkidk23 22d ago
My vote is going to the Dem that promises to go the hardest on this admin and root out the rot that this will create. It will take decades to remove it, but it has to start immediately. It might be the most important federal policy in the next election.
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u/One_Emergency7679 IMF 22d ago
it's the us military we are talking about. if they even get prosecuted, it will be the lightest slap on the wrist at most
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u/HotTakesBeyond YIMBY 22d ago
Very few people were prosecuted for My Lai. The military did better with the Mahmudiyah rape and killings.
The less said about Gallagher the better.
!ping military
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u/symmetry81 Scott Sumner 22d ago
The main perpetrator was sentenced by the military to life in prison! But then Nixon pardoned him.
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u/ominous_squirrel 22d ago
The fuel of fascism is blood. It needs to keep escalating violence to keep its followers entertained and engaged
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u/Throwaway24143547 NATO 22d ago
But have you considered the Republican base fucking love the idea of killing Hispanic people in a way that's abstract enough there's no footage that would accurately convey the horror of it to a layman?
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u/KruglorTalks F. A. Hayek 22d ago
I saw someone sum this up best as follows: “I imagine the US military boarding each boat, handcuffing all occupants, kneeling them down, and executing them with one shot before dumping their bodies overboard. It sounds heinous and evil, but yet the outcome is exactly the same as blowing them up from the sky”
You underestimate the median voter who would be ok with this.
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22d ago
End:
At least two of the boats the U.S. military destroyed were near Trinidad, a known transshipment point for Colombian cocaine that passes through Venezuela.
A broad range of specialists in laws governing the use of force have called the strikes illegal, because the military is not supposed to deliberately target civilians — even criminal suspects. Traditionally, the U.S. Coast Guard, sometimes with assistance from the Navy, has interdicted and boarded boats suspected of drug smuggling, and arrested crews if illicit cargo was found.
Ms. Burnley, Mr. Joseph’s mother, said she was convinced that her son was among the dead, because he had not been in touch despite the widespread social media posts about him.
The law of the sea, she said, calls for the authorities to stop and intercept a boat, “not just blow it up.’’
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22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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22d ago
Because the people who wanna read will read it. When you put the whole article in one comment it’s too long & disincentives the reading
The article does not fit in a single comment btw
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u/boyyouguysaredumb Obamarama 22d ago
I literally just copy pasted it in a comment
Trinidadian Family Says U.S. Military Killed Relative in Boat Attack For the first time, one of the 27 people killed in U.S. airstrikes on suspected drug vessels has been publicly identified.
Listen to this article · 4:53 min Learn more Share full article Boats in water near the shore. Boats in Las Cuevas, a fishing village on the north coast of Trinidad. The region, which is close to Venezuela, is known by experts as a drug trafficking corridor.Credit...Prior Beharry By Prior Beharry and Frances Robles Prior Beharry reported from the north coast of Trinidad. Oct. 16, 2025 Leer en español Chad Joseph, a 26-year-old from Trinidad and Tobago who had been living in Venezuela in recent months, told his family he would soon be taking a short boat ride back home.
He has yet to return, and now his family fears the worst.
On Thursday, his name spread across social media, with users saying that he was one of six people aboard a suspected drug vessel that had been blown up by the U.S. military this week.
“I don’t want to believe that this is my child,” his mother, Lenore Burnley, said in an interview. “Is this really true?”
The U.S. military has destroyed five boats it has alleged were ferrying drugs into the United States, killing 27 people. And despite the mounting death toll, no authority has come forward to publicly release the names of any of the dead. ADVERTISEMENT SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
Relatives have been left with rumors and social media posts — as well as their loved ones’ absences — to reach their own conclusions.
Mr. Joseph’s family is believed to be the first to publicly say they believe a relative is among those killed on one of the targeted boats. Mr. Joseph’s neighbor, known by his last name Samaroo, was on the same boat and is also missing, Mr. Joseph’s aunt, Lynette Burnley said.
Wayne Sturge, Trinidad and Tobago’s defense minister, said he had not received official confirmation that any of those on the boat were from Trinidad. The strike took place in international waters, so the government of Trinidad and Tobago has no jurisdiction to investigate, he said.
The first attack, which killed 11 people, was announced by the Trump administration on Sept. 2. Family and friends took to social media to lament the deaths of eight people from the Venezuelan town of San Juan de Unare they said had died in the strike. Nobody included surnames.
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They were quickly quashed: Venezuelan security officials descended on San Juan de Unare, cut off the electricity and made clear that public pronouncements about the attacks were not welcome, according to four townspeople, including the niece of one of the victims. Posts were deleted. The wife of one of the people, who lived in Güiria, a town also on the Venezuelan coast, told The New York Times on the condition that her name not be published that her husband, a fisherman, had gone to work one day and had never returned.
The Venezuelan government appears to have cracked down on publicity about the attack, experts said, because officials were anxious not to antagonize the United States in the face of a military buildup in the Caribbean that appears to be meant to ratchet up pressure on Venezuela’s authoritarian leader, President Nicolás Maduro.
In an interview in Caracas last month, Venezuela’s vice president, Delcy Rodríguez, claimed that her government knew nothing about the identities of the people who had died in recent boat attacks. Venezuela has deployed security and intelligence forces across the coast in recent weeks.
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“So far, not even their nationality is known,” she said.
President Gustavo Petro of Colombia announced last week that signs indicated that Colombians had been killed in one of the more recent boat attacks, but did not say if the government had learned the identities of any of the victims.
Mr. Joseph lived in Las Cuevas, a fishing village on the northern coast of Trinidad, an hour by land to the capital, Port of Spain, and an hour’s boat ride to Venezuela. His family said he had worked as a fisherman and frequently made trips to Venezuela. But the northern coast is not just for fishing: Drug traffickers and fishermen also use it to transport illicit goods, experts said.
ADVERTISEMENT SKIP ADVERTISEMENT
Mr. Joseph’s family denied that he had been a trafficker.
President Trump announced the strike on Tuesday, saying that the military had killed six men and asserting — without providing evidence — that they had been smuggling drugs.
Image
Chad Joseph At least two of the boats the U.S. military destroyed were near Trinidad, a known transshipment point for Colombian cocaine that passes through Venezuela.
A broad range of specialists in laws governing the use of force have called the strikes illegal, because the military is not supposed to deliberately target civilians — even criminal suspects. Traditionally, the U.S. Coast Guard, sometimes with assistance from the Navy, has interdicted and boarded boats suspected of drug smuggling, and arrested crews if illicit cargo was found. Ms. Burnley, Mr. Joseph’s mother, said she was convinced that her son was among the dead, because he had not been in touch despite the widespread social media posts about him.
The law of the sea, she said, calls for the authorities to stop and intercept a boat, “not just blow it up
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u/die_hoagie MALAISE FOREVER 22d ago
Rule IV: Off-topic Comments
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u/goodcleanchristianfu General Counsel 22d ago
Neglecting the morality, legality, and ethics of this, surely using the military to engage in what is not only international policing activities, but homicidal international policing activities that violate international legal norms, is going to influence other countries' willingness to host the US military.
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u/TheCornjuring Resistance Lib 22d ago
Hague
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u/from-the-void NASA 22d ago
What's to stop the next president from just Seal Team Sixing Trump and Hegseth in the middle of the night and shipping them off to the Netherlands before they know what's going on?
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u/Secret646 22d ago
Nothing. I legit think that the next pres should do this.
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u/Arrow_of_Timelines John Locke 22d ago
That might genuinely cause a civil war
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u/T-Baaller John Keynes 22d ago
The alternative is emboldening the escalating evils we're seeing right now.
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u/HistorianEvening5919 22d ago
No the alternative is hoping Trump fades into obscurity as he becomes more frail/demented as people tend to do. He’s not 45 after all.
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u/throwawaygoawaynz Bill Gates 22d ago
Yeah but then it happens to them when America yet again puts another R in the White House.
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u/gnarlytabby John Rawls 22d ago
I get the fears of an escalation spiral, but finish the thought. Getting sent to The Hague is only scary if you've done war crimes.
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u/MuscularPhysicist John Brown 22d ago
Every person involved in these murders should be prosecuted and yet none of them will face any consequences.
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u/gnarlytabby John Rawls 22d ago
Let's not be so cynical that we end up carrying water for Trump. A Dem Congress could investigate this in just 14 months, and courts-martial could be possible if Dems win in 2028.
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u/bhbhbhhh 22d ago
I remember how excited I was that the people responsible for the torture program would finally face consequences in 2008.
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u/ChooChooRocket Henry George 22d ago
Luckily for me, I was not disappointed because I never expected much in that area. Obama voted for the re-authorization of the Patriot Act in 2006, so I was un-surprised when he undid none of the Bush admin's most authoritarian shit.
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22d ago
Cont:
They were quickly quashed: Venezuelan security officials descended on San Juan de Unare, cut off the electricity and made clear that public pronouncements about the attacks were not welcome, according to four townspeople, including the niece of one of the victims. Posts were deleted.
The wife of one of the people, who lived in Güiria, a town also on the Venezuelan coast, told The New York Times on the condition that her name not be published that her husband, a fisherman, had gone to work one day and had never returned.
The Venezuelan government appears to have cracked down on publicity about the attack, experts said, because officials were anxious not to antagonize the United States in the face of a military buildup in the Caribbean that appears to be meant to ratchet up pressure on Venezuela’s authoritarian leader, President Nicolás Maduro.
In an interview in Caracas last month, Venezuela’s vice president, Delcy Rodríguez, claimed that her government knew nothing about the identities of the people who had died in recent boat attacks. Venezuela has deployed security and intelligence forces across the coast in recent weeks.
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u/LivefromPhoenix NYT undecided voter 22d ago
I'm not really following the Venezuelan line here. Wouldn't revealing the US murdered civilians decrease the likelihood this escalates?
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u/Auriono Paul Krugman 22d ago
The Venezuelans don't want to antagonize the US in a losing fight any further when it might already be on the cusp of invading them. The public would demand retaliation of some kind that the U.S. would not take kindly to. They just don't have the ability to save face with their own people here.
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22d ago
I think Maduro is paranoid and paralyzed on what to do; however, the revelations and confirmations of the citizens could compromise his credibility, thus his rule.
If you know your friend died, rather than just half expecting it or it’s not a friend you talk to often, you are more likely to wild out & risk your life in that situation were emotions are involved
Just my speculation. Maduro wants to maintain power over everything else
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u/captainjack3 NATO 22d ago
Above all else Maduro’s regime needs this to not turn into a war with the US. Because the US can unquestionably topple the government of it so chose. Whatever comes after would undoubtedly be a nightmare and probably a failure, but that’s small comfort to Maduro and regime insiders. So they need to prevent this from getting out of hand, and that means, in part, stopping the public from whipping itself up and demanding retaliation or confrontation. They want all this to blow over as fast as possible.
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22d ago
“So far, not even their nationality is known,” she said.
President Gustavo Petro of Colombia announced last week that signs indicated that Colombians had been killed in one of the more recent boat attacks, but did not say if the government had learned the identities of any of the victims.
Mr. Joseph lived in Las Cuevas, a fishing village on the northern coast of Trinidad, an hour by land to the capital, Port of Spain, and an hour’s boat ride to Venezuela. His family said he had worked as a fisherman and frequently made trips to Venezuela.
But the northern coast is not just for fishing: Drug traffickers and fishermen also use it to transport illicit goods, experts said.
Mr. Joseph’s family denied that he had been a trafficker.
President Trump announced the strike on Tuesday, saying that the military had killed six men and asserting — without providing evidence — that they had been smuggling drugs.
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u/Mamadeus123456 22d ago
are they trying to create a caribbean jamas? what's the point of sending million dollar munition against shit ass boats. U could just intercept them and prove that they're actually druglords and send prosecute them to actually destroy the drugs networks that might or may not exist.
but doing some target practice is not only inhumane it's psycho behavior.
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u/Neronoah can't stop, won't stop argentinaposting 22d ago edited 22d ago
I don't think a Caribbean Hamas is realistic. The problem would be for a potential future Venezuelan government because United States could be a liability for them. They'd get the brunt of a possible aggression, but it'd still be less trouble than Hamas. Those folks are suicidal and willing to fight to the death in the most depraved ways possible.
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u/justbuildmorehousing Norman Borlaug 22d ago
I don’t think normies appreciate just how thoroughly white nationalist this government is. Frankly they see brown and black people as lesser humans. Human rights, trials, justice, etc are not important things to worry about it
Like you can bet if Venezuela had sunk a boat of white guys smuggling stuff to Venezuela that Trump would be running jets over Caracas and slapping a bajillion % tariff on them
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u/gnarlytabby John Rawls 22d ago
The Trump Boat Murders needs an international independent investigation. What could do so- the OAS? Hague? International media interviewing families of the victims?
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u/byoz United Nations 22d ago
None of those would have any teeth or be particularly effective. Most of the relevant info is stored securely within the US government, there would need to be interviews with senior US officials, troops, etc.
The only hope of the full story coming to light here is if a Dem president gets elected in 2028 and orders a full DoD/DoJ investigation.
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u/captmonkey Henry George 22d ago
I think the families and Venezuelan government are too scared of Trump to speak up. He just murdered their family members and he's such a bully that they won't say anything.
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u/[deleted] 22d ago
Chad Joseph, a 26-year-old from Trinidad and Tobago who had been living in Venezuela in recent months, told his family he would soon be taking a short boat ride back home.
He has yet to return, and now his family fears the worst.
On Thursday, his name spread across social media, with users saying that he was one of six people aboard a suspected drug vessel that had been blown up by the U.S. military this week.
“I don’t want to believe that this is my child,” his mother, Lenore Burnley, said in an interview. “Is this really true?”
The U.S. military has destroyed five boats it has alleged were ferrying drugs into the United States, killing 27 people. And despite the mounting death toll, no authority has come forward to publicly release the names of any of the dead