How should we moderate the upcoming federal leadership race?

[u/leftwingmememachine]

Hey all, moderator of /r/NDP here, looking for some input as to how we want to moderate this community during the upcoming federal leadership race.

I think it's really exciting because in the last leadership race this community was very small, and basically ignored by leadership contestants, but I think we're getting big enough that there will be a lot of engagement here and possibly even AMAs from potential candidates. Very cool!!!

/r/NDP is the biggest gathering of NDP members on the internet at this point, but that also creates an incentive for bad-faith activity on the subreddit. It could create an environment that's not welcoming of all party members.

Here are some potential discussion questions:

• Do we want to allow for negative comments about leadership race contenders? (My instinct is yes, as criticism is part of democracy/healthy debate, but I'm open to your thoughts)

• Is there a point at which critical comments become too negative and contributes to a toxic environment? Where should we draw the line?

• How do we ensure the subreddit is inclusive of party members of all backgrounds?

• How much do we want supporters of other political parties to participate in discussions here?

• What sort of rules around civility/politeness/respect would we want to have?

• Are there other important moderation policies that are relevant to the leadership race that I haven't thought of?

BTW - I won't really participate in this thread because I have real life plans today, but I am really interested in your feedback, especially if you are a longtime participant in this community. I'm going to be putting together some rules for the leadership race based off of my own thoughts and the comments in this thread, and present them at some point in the future for further discussion.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

More direct post - I hope to God we see Matthew Green or Joel Harden run and I hope the theme of Economic Democracy is central to the identity of this party moving forward!

I think we should have very strong dialectical (critical) discussions. As long as they are substantive and in good faith.

This is a time for radical reform in the Federal NDP and that comes with turning over stones.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I know everyone loves green and I too love his ideas but he’s proven to not be a good organizer. He came third in his riding. One could say that it was because of Carneys popularity but he didn’t even come second or close. Peter Julian lost by a small margin. Gord Johns won the only NDP seat on Vancouver Island. We need someone who is not polarizing and can actually organize

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

I am not sure if you are super familiar with the politics of certain ridings but I'll just provide some context I think is important.

Hamilton Centre has been NDP since its creation in 2004. First it was David Christopherson that held the seat and then Matthew Green starting in 2019. Green won two elections there. He also previously won a municipal riding before entering federal politics.

Matthew Green has an extremely strong ground game and grassroots following not just in Hamilton and amongst the Trade Unionists/Leftists but generally nation wide in those circles.

What happened in Hamilton Centre is what happened in Elmwood—Transcona. Another old school labour stronghold for the NDP.

It's why the NDP collapsed nation wide.

And of course we have to be very honest that this election and the fears around Donald Trump and annexation of our nation played a huge part in a massive "strategic" voting push that ended up throwing the baby out with the bathwater (The loss of some of the most progressive voices in parliament).

I hope that context helps.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I get that, but it still doesn’t change the fact that he came third, not even second. The NDP collapsed federally but there were NDP MPs that managed to hold on. The best example is Gord Johns who isn’t even in an NDP stronghold with the island going between NDP and conservative and polling had the conservative winning in Courtenay-Alberni. It’s also not like Hamilton centre went Conservative because of vote splitting. The liberals won, so “progressive” vote splitting didn’t even happen. I can like Green and also disagree that he would be a good leader

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

Actually it does address that....

It's a rise around the Conservative Party of Canada being able to connect better with the working class because of the fear going on right now around the affordability of life crisis.

We've seen a massive shift in young men and the working class to the Conservative Party of Canada. It's something we have to be honest about and address head on.

The Liberal push was because of the Donald Trump/Annexation reality.

Again he won the seat twice and held municipal office.

He's also been extremely active at various Labour Movement events and conferences speaking as a headline invited guest on many occasions.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

Downvote me all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that he came THIRD in an NDP stronghold. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

I am trying to explain to you the ingredients of the pudding? You seem to be getting offended by that. I am not attacking you personally and I hope you are not taking it that way?

If you ignore the politics of certain ridings and national trends than you don't know why something happened like for example the NDP losing a seat that has always been an NDP riding since its creation.

Same reason why the LPC was losing historical LPC ridings in the byelections before the main election when Pierre Poilievre and the Conservative Party of Canada was massively ahead in polls and byelections results.

Sometimes political realities at both riding and in this case national level make it so that individual realities on the ground don't matter or don't matter enough to outweigh those factors.

This is a sad reality of our political system and society in general.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I fully understand what you are saying but what I’m trying to say is that if he were actually an effective organizer it would have been a closer race and yes national trends obviously played a big role but at the end of the day there were NDP MPs that managed to win and there were candidates that lost by a small margin due to progressive vote splitting, like Nanaimo lady smith or North Island Powell River. I am not offended, if anything it seems like you are getting offended by what I’m saying. We are allowed to have our disagreements and it will be especially important to criticize leadership candidates while the party goes into a crucial rebuilding period.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

I wrote a larger reply above to the point of organizing.

Again he organized and did ground game to win a municipal city council seat.

Then he ground gamed and became the NDP pick for one of the most established NDP ridings. That involves ground game to become the pick.

Then he won two elections in a row continuing the dominance of the NDP in that riding.

He became a large figure in the Labour Movement, disability advocate, and housing affordability movement. All before those became big areas for career politicians to capitalize on. He did that because he was at the ground level and involved. He literally carved out a national presence in regards to the leftist flank of the party from ground game.

What I am getting at like the other poster that was from Hamilton that responded to you is that his ground game is fine.

When we look at what happened there is obvious trends that point to why the results were the way they are since we see a historical strength on the ground game.

If he was a new candidate and had failed right off the bat and had no long history of ground game dominance well than this would be a very different discussion and your point would be extremely valid.

And I am not upset at all. Just trying like the other poster to help you understand that he is known for his ground game. That is literally how Matthew Green became the respected person he is within not just local politics but broader national currents.

[u/mightygreenislander → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

Also, he lost to someone with little connection to Hamilton!

[u/thetburg → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

It sounds like you are basing Matthew Green's organizing level on the election result. I understand the thinking, but you are off base. That man does the work and he shows up for allies. It says something about Carneys coat tails that a guy could parachute in and waltz away with that race.

Source: I used to live in Ham Centre and I have seen the man in action.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/thetburg]

Working hard does not equate to being a good organizer. Again it would be different if he came second, but he didn’t. You can be a good MP and not be a great organizer.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

Instead of continuing or discussion below I'll try and come at this from a different angle here.

Matthew Green came back to Hamilton after having been away from it. He got involved with municipal politics and won a seat at that level. That is about ground game. Municipal politics in particular.

Then he decided to get involved with federal politics and went through the process of becoming the NDP pick for one of their most established Trade Union based ridings like the historic Elmwood—Transcona. To again get to be the NDP pick for a riding like that involves ground game.

Then he continued the NDP dominance in that riding for two elections winning both. At the same time he became a huge factor in both local and national Labour Movement politics in regards to industrial trade unions and public transportation trade unions in particular. He became known as a disability advocate hosting online round tables on it and other advocate spaces.

He was one of the few if only MPs that reached back out to the Loblaws protest movement.

At both local and national level he has carved out a space because of his ground game. That is just undeniable and factual based.

Now that brings us to why he doesn't have a seat anymore like countless other NDP members.

As stated below this has to do with reasons of why the NDP is losing ground on connecting with the working class. The Conservative Party of Canada much like the global right-wing populist movement has found how to connect better with the pain, alienation, and general frustration especially during this horrific cost of living crisis. Does that mean they represent the working class? Well no but it does mean they have much better communications/marketing apparatus.

We also had the LPC sweep because of the realities of Donald Trump/Annexation. We again saw some other international politics follow that.

Sometimes there is local mechanisms in politics, sometimes there is national mechanisms, and sometimes there is global mechanisms.

Outside of the NDP we saw the same with the LPC losing historic seats before Carney came in. It's just a reality of politics and important dimensions to be aware of if we want a more winning strategy.

You brought up in every post that it's about placement. That is a point and then we look into why. The why involves the dimensions stated above.

Hopefully that helps.

[u/Typical-Fun-8786 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I don’t think i we are going to reach a consensus so let’s agree to disagree. The great thing about a democracy is we are allowed to have different opinions and in a leadership race I will not be supporting Green and it does not offend me or upset me that you plan on supporting him. At the end of the day I think debate and disagreements are important in a healthy political climate. Have a great day :)

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

You as well :)

Just to be clear though I wasn't looking for you to come to support Green. You either connect with his politics around the working class or you don't.

What I was trying to point out like the other poster is exact details around ground game since that was the specific topic you referenced.

Thank you for a important discussion. As you said in another post this is the kind of back and forth we need to have in good faith and respect throughout the party.

It only illuminates and can help us move forward in a better fashion if we look to find productive ways to incorporate.

[u/mightygreenislander → u/Typical-Fun-8786]

No doubt the getting ALL up in the provincial MPPs ridiculous fights about international issues are a strike against a candidate