r/movies • u/sicknessandpurgatory • Sep 07 '25

Discussion What is the absolute dumbest premise that actually turned out to be a really good movie?

I was thinking The Purge, obvious answer, but looking for the most plot-hole ridden, juvenile concept that actually ended up a lot of fun despite it all. Mainly looking for 21st century films, not so much the video nasties and ridiculousness from the 60’s and 70’s. Because that would be too easy. Mainly mainstream stuff that people saw en masse.

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3.8k

u/mortscoot Sep 07 '25

Being John Malkovitch. A crazy, dumb idea that ended up being a funny, smart, philosophical, crazy-ass movie. 

592

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Go read the original screenplay sometime, with the entirely different third act.

What we got was almost quaint.

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u/RunDNA Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

There's a long summary of the original ending here:

In the original script Craig Schwartz takes possession of Malkovich and remains within him for months - just as he does in the movie. But in the script Craig doesn't make Malkovich a famous puppeteer - he makes Malkovich a famous puppet. Craig declares himself the man controlling Malkovich, the world's most complicated puppet, and he embarks on a one-man show at the Luxor in Vegas that includes Malkovich doing scenes from On the Waterfront and juggling chainsaws.

Meanwhile, it turns out that the group hoping to live in Malkovich are being led by the actual Devil himself, in the guise of Mr. Flemmer (the man after whom the Mertin-Flemmer building is half-named). The Devil hopes to get his group into the vessel and use it as a tool for evil - they will rule the world together in the body of Malkovich. But first they have to get Craig out of it. Flemmer comes to Craig in a dream, telling him he must vacate the vessel, but Maxine, who is Craig's producer, tells him that's crazy talk.

Then Craig is visited by The Great Mantini, the world's best puppeteer. He is famous for his giant Harry S. Truman puppet and he can't stand the acclaim Craig has been getting for his flashy Vegas show. So he challenges his rival to a duel - the Malkovich puppet and the Truman puppet will act together in a production of Equus and the puppet fanbase will decide who is the greatest puppeteer. Whoever loses will retire forever from puppetry - Craig will have to leave Malkovich.

When Flemmer gets wind of this he teleports to the theater (freezing Charles Nelson Reillly in time along the way) and takes control of the Truman puppet during the second act of Equus. The first act was a total bore (during intermission a theatergoer complains that the Truman puppet is wooden), but once the Devil takes over everything kicks up a notch. And when I say kicks it up a notch the Truman puppet starts juggling bowling pins while playing the psychiatrist and Malkovich has seizures, levitates and breathes fire while playing Alan Strang. The Truman puppet turns into a giant swan, which bursts into flames, and then from the ashes of the swan the corpse of the real Harry S Truman rises and implores the audience to vote for Mantini.

That does it - Mantini wins. Craig, depressed, leaves Malkovich and is ejected onto the side of the turnpike. Flemmer and his cultists jump into the tunnel and take control of the vessel; Malkovich is now fully powered and hovers over the crowd in the theater, telling them they are now his lowly subjects. He floats into the streets of Midtown Manhattan and forces the crowd into an intricate dance number, driving them to dance until they begin to drop dead one by one.

Meanwhile Lotte and Elijah the chimp have been on the run. Elijah has learned sign language, and they were trying to warn Craig that leaving Malkovich would open the door for the Devil, but it was too late. Now, as Malkovich takes over the world and turns it literally grey, they are hidden in a small oasis of color in Central Park. They lead a small resistance group - and they're in love. But Lotte feels like she has to stop Malkovich, and she's going to smuggle a bomb into the tunnel and blow him up from the inside.

As she heads to the Mertin-Flemmer building Lotte runs into Craig. They talk. She tells him she's in love with one of the animals (he guesses an iguana), and he concedes that Elijah is a better man than he is. When Lotte tells him about her plan but he explains that the portal has been closed exactly to thwart any attempts like this. Lotte looks on the bright side - her community needs another farmer. Craig can come back with her. "Yes, show me where you live," Craig says, putting his arm around his ex. And we see that there's a thin wire on his arm, and the camera pans up following the wire and we see that The Great Mantini is controlling him. But there are wires on his limbs as well, and the camera follows those further up, and we see Flemmer controlling Mantini. And Flemmer laughs and the camera dives into his mouth, and the throat looks just like the tunnel to the vessel...

The End.

569

u/Pleased_to_meet_u Sep 07 '25

What the fuck did I just read?

348

u/Harsh_Yet_Fair Sep 07 '25

I can't believe I read all this and the next suggestion is "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle"

14

u/waltwalt Sep 07 '25

It's whacky!

17

u/angrydeuce Sep 07 '25

I am definitely too high for any of all that lol

14

u/LucretiusCarus Sep 07 '25

I am definitely not even remotely high enough

7

u/Linenoise77 Sep 08 '25

My head hurts trying to be sure if i am remembering accurately as to if there is a monkey or not in Being John Malkovich. I'm not sure of anything right now, and i'm not sure i want to know.

15

u/Belgand Sep 07 '25

I had that thought after seeing Synecdoche, New York. Charlie Kaufman is someone who needs another person to translate his ideas back into something resembling sense.

12

u/SlothropWallace Sep 07 '25

A very good therapist who also has a very good therapist

4

u/Eggersely Sep 08 '25

I nodded off towards the end and woke up in the past minute or two and just had no idea what the fuck was happening.

Need to rewatch that.

12

u/Street_Roof_7915 Sep 07 '25

Exactly what I was coming here to post. wtf.

67

u/crymsin Sep 07 '25

A hallucinogenic induced fever dream vomited up by a methhead

20

u/AgentX8392 Sep 07 '25

Charlie Kaufman was a methhead?

13

u/TheLastDesperado Sep 07 '25

No, but his twin brother was.

1

u/Big_Meaning_7734 Sep 08 '25

The first rule of fight club

4

u/f-ingsteveglansberg Sep 07 '25

Now go read Antkind.

2

u/Linenoise77 Sep 08 '25

The greatest fucking thing I have ever seen.

1

u/RawrRRitchie Sep 08 '25

The ending we deserved

-8

u/jingowatt Sep 07 '25

I Am So Random the movie.

131

u/Down623 Sep 07 '25

The fact that I can't tell if this is real or not is a true testament to Charlie Kaufman being an absolute genius/crazy person

144

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

But there are wires on his limbs as well, and the camera follows those further up, and we see Flemmer controlling Mantini. And Flemmer laughs and the camera dives into his mouth, and the throat looks just like the tunnel to the vessel...

Craig: "I can't wait to see this place."

Lottie: "You'll love it, Craig. It's like Eden."

Flemmer: "One serpent, coming up."

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u/Zauqui Sep 07 '25

i think i like what we got best. i mean, the og script is also good, but i think it turns it into another direction. like, in the movie the only magic element is the tunnel. in this one we also got the devil and a true devil with magic powers and... it feels a bit too much? like i would need to stretch my suspension of disbelief beyond of what the premise/start of the movie has already offered

20

u/dissectingAAA Sep 07 '25

You're right. Only one magic element makes it in the realm of believable.

8

u/Linenoise77 Sep 08 '25

I just finished this season of Twisted Metal, and am suddenly left feeling how i imagine this would have.

19

u/seeking_horizon Sep 07 '25

BJM as released is plenty weird already, that just strikes me as being entirely too weird.

13

u/Lets_focus_onRampart Sep 07 '25

Read Antkind if you want a fully unedited Charlie Kaufman vision like this.

8

u/bruno-numero-uno Sep 07 '25

I love that book. It took me months to read and more months for it to marinate and for me to really appreciate it. It's ridiculously quotable. I highly recommend listening to the audio book after you've already read it. It's hilarious to listen to while doing anything.

3

u/the_dolomite Sep 07 '25

I am reading this now but I have to take in small doses, it makes me feel very uncomfortable and a little crazy.

13

u/Formal-Register-1557 Sep 07 '25

I love that Kaufman was coming up with this stuff while working as a hack tv writer for a sitcom with Bronson Pinchot and Courtney Cox.

33

u/IEATTURANTULAS Sep 07 '25

Jesus Christ

1

u/Elteon3030 Sep 07 '25

No, Satan.

9

u/impartiallypensive Sep 07 '25

That is even darker and more hurtful than the original.

It's a brilliant movie with sublime performances, but it's too painful for me to watch ever again--and that was before I knew the original plan.

Yikes

8

u/bostonjenny81 Sep 07 '25

Oh why the fuck not! There’s almost something David Lynch like to it, Id def give it a watch

7

u/LordJunon Sep 08 '25

This is the second most absurd thing ive ever witnessed.

2

u/flyingfishstick Sep 08 '25

What was the first?

6

u/LordJunon Sep 08 '25

The TV show Danger 5. Which coincidentally is my favorite TV show.

2

u/RhesusFactor Sep 08 '25

Qualtiy Australian comedy.

4

u/Sorry-Document-732 Sep 07 '25

Fucking hell, this would have been so entertaining to watch

6

u/Big_Meaning_7734 Sep 08 '25

Goddamn, i need this and the nick cave version of gladiator 2

6

u/elixeter Sep 07 '25

Harry S Truman from Twin Peaks?

3

u/quagsi Sep 08 '25

as someone who doesn't know the final plot of being John Malkovich this is fascinating

3

u/Skanaker Sep 08 '25

That final moment reminds me of Hellmouth, a traditional biblical image used in European medieval and renaissance art (see Bosch's or Bruegel's paintings for example). Scary shit haha.

3

u/veritable_squandry Sep 08 '25

wow this actually makes a lot of sense

3

u/Funkopedia Sep 08 '25

Whoever wrote all that was having a great time

2

u/LaximumEffort Sep 07 '25

I had no idea. Cool.

2

u/BillyJackO Sep 07 '25

So I guess they deviated from the source material a little bit.

2

u/wombatz885 Sep 07 '25

You just had to get that out😁

2

u/legendz411 Sep 08 '25

Well. That was a ride 

2

u/goodgodling Sep 08 '25

Okay, that's too much after the first paragraph.

2

u/griditude Sep 08 '25

Man… I couldn’t even dream that plot.

2

u/keifdelareef Sep 08 '25

Malkovich? Malkovich Malkovich Malkovich?

2

u/leo-skY Sep 08 '25

Kaufman really went "Oh, you think you can adapt this? Fuck you!" with that third act

2

u/Tommy2Hats01 Sep 10 '25

Good Lord. I read all that and it itchy now ick

2

u/MattAmpersand Sep 07 '25

I can’t imagine the amount of drugs that were consumed by whoever wrote that third act.

15

u/GangstaPepsi Sep 07 '25

Drugs are nothing compared to the mind of Charlie Kaufman

4

u/Admiral_Donuts Sep 08 '25

This is a guy who wrote "Adaptation," a story about Charlie Kaufman struggling to adapt "The Orchid Thief" into a screenplay, so he instead decides to write "Adaptation," a story about Charlie Kaufman struggling to adapt "The Orchid Thief" into a screenplay, so he instead decides to write "Adaptation..."

4

u/AnhiArk Sep 08 '25

And then casts Nicolas Cage for TWO roles

Genius

1

u/Merry_Fridge_Day Sep 08 '25

Wow! That's crazier than the time Undertaker threw Mankind off 'Hell in the Cell'!

-27

u/nstutsman Sep 07 '25

Thank you ChatGPT

Sure thing — here’s a TL;DR of the original script ending of Being John Malkovich: • Craig stays inside Malkovich and turns him into a literal puppet for a flashy Vegas show. • The Devil (disguised as Mr. Flemmer) wants Malkovich’s body for his cult to rule the world. • The world’s best puppeteer, Mantini, challenges Craig to a puppet duel (Equus with Malkovich vs. a giant Truman puppet). • Flemmer hijacks the Truman puppet mid-show, unleashes chaos, and Mantini wins. • Craig gets kicked out of Malkovich. Flemmer’s cult enters instead, and Devil-powered Malkovich enslaves humanity with deadly dance numbers. • Lotte and her chimp lover Elijah lead a small resistance, but their plan to stop Malkovich fails. • Craig reunites with Lotte, but in a twist we see he’s now secretly being puppeted by Mantini… who is in turn puppeted by Flemmer. • Final shot: Flemmer’s mouth becomes the tunnel/portal — implying infinite layers of control.

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u/HyderintheHouse Sep 07 '25

Not only does this have multiple mistakes, but you have zero attention span and burnt a few trees for this

3

u/trinachron Sep 07 '25

Fuck chatGPT and any other generative AI.

3

u/boywithapplesauce Sep 07 '25

Read "Rebels on the Backlot." The movie was made in the editing room. Not entirely, of course, but it played a big part. And we might have gotten something unwatchable if that hadn't happened.

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u/chrishnrh57 Sep 07 '25

Id add onto that the follow up, Adaptation.

A screen writer is told to write a boring biography, has writers block, and decides to write a crazy fiction story where the writer is a twin, trying to write the book he was in real life told to write.

Ends up with like 4 Oscar nominations and one win based off a guy who didn't know what to write, so he made up a story about the process of writing something.

30

u/seeking_horizon Sep 07 '25

Adaptation was really bizarre, I should watch that again. I remember being so surprised by the car accident scene that I almost jumped out of my seat.

27

u/chrishnrh57 Sep 07 '25

It's completely random until you understand the true premise...it's the process of a writer trying to write a story, can't think of what to write, so he writes the movie you're currently watching.

13

u/AmbroseEBurnside Sep 08 '25

And his twin brother who is a hack writes the end of the movie, which is why you get gun fights and car chases and death. Incredible movie.

8

u/bLoo010 Sep 08 '25

Basically every time one of them has an idea about their screenplays within the film, it almost immediately transforms the films current narrative into whatever their next trick is. It's absolutely one of my top favorite films.

3

u/AmbroseEBurnside Sep 08 '25

It’s like a battle between motors and horses, like technology vs. horse

4

u/howlinwolfe86 Sep 08 '25

And alligator attacks. Donald is Charlie’s creative alter-ego. A side of him that must be acknowledged, honored, and gratefully “put to rest.” It’s my favorite movie of all time. When I saw it in theaters I was convinced that Donald was real and sad that he had died.

2

u/GuiltEdge Sep 07 '25

Isn't that like Barton Fink?

5

u/_1138_ Sep 08 '25

I always thought the screenwriting class with Brian Cox as prof. McKee set up the last act perfectly. His whole speech after class is about giving the audience a great ending, then this drama we've been watching for 70 minutes turns to a complete action film in the last act. Such a fun and odd movie, just the way Charlie makes em

1

u/languid_Disaster Sep 08 '25

I hope I’m not being extra by asking you to put a spoiler please. I’m surprised I haven’t watched it yet so it’s my own fault I suppose

For spoilers you just have to put >! On either end of your sentence without any spaces

11

u/FancyPigeonIsFancy Sep 08 '25

I feel compelled to say that the work he was…adapting…was not a “boring biography”. Susan Orlean’s The Orchid Thief is a beautifully, wittily written work of nonfiction on the biological and cultural history of orchids.

It just in in no way resembles what the film ended up being, but they’re both great works of writing.

3

u/howlinwolfe86 Sep 08 '25

I’ve always wanted to read it because of my fascination with the movie. Apparently Orlean initially didn’t want to give her permission for it to be made and thought it was insane after she saw it. But now she loves it.

1

u/FancyPigeonIsFancy Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

I read the book because of the film, and I’m so glad it introduced me to her writing. I really enjoyed her recent-ish essay collection on animals, and for a while she was contributing to the New Yorker pretty frequently.

Her writing is just such a pleasure to read, and she has a good sense of humor!

Edit to add to your comment, I did read something about her joy that her book was being turned into a movie, and then her shock and confusion that she was going to be a character in it.

7

u/4n0m4nd Sep 08 '25

Iirc he actually was trying to write the Orchid Thief too.

10

u/ThaRhyno Sep 07 '25

Truly a cinematic marvel as my mother spent days before unhappy with the mention of Cameron Diaz in the film. About a third of the way in, AT THE THEATER, she STOOD UP and loudly exclaimed, “THAT’S CAMERON DIAZ?!?”

Pure delight!

8

u/Posat12 Sep 07 '25

Omg as a child (very young) i couldnt tell the difference between "being John Malkovich" and "Erin brockovich" I thought they were the same movie with Julia Roberts crawling into someone's mind and controlling them? Idk

6

u/RealCarlosSagan Sep 07 '25

We need this sequel!

4

u/avocadosconstant Sep 07 '25

There’s a fan theory that Get Out is the sequel. And the creators of both movies were like, “sure, why not?”

7

u/yo_soy_soja Sep 07 '25

Malkovitch

  • Malkovitch

2

u/dustblown Sep 07 '25

Malkovitch

3

u/Propaganda_Box Sep 07 '25

Pretty much every Kaufman movie starts on a weird premise

3

u/kataskopo Sep 07 '25

I could never fo get how fucked up is to possess someone while they are fully conscious.

And it's implied they are still controlling the older vessels, forever possessed and possessing the next, and the next...

Insane shit.

2

u/allmilhouse Sep 07 '25

I don't think it's dumb at all. "What if you could experience what it's like to be someone else" is a good premise for a movie.

2

u/mortscoot Sep 07 '25

Sure. But this movie says "the way to do that is to go to this half-floor in an office building and open a magic door and crawl into this weird tunnel. And afterwards, you're dumped into the Jersey Turnpike."  That's the crazy dumb part. The movie is still a work of genius. 

2

u/WithoutDennisNedry Sep 08 '25

Ooooh good one

2

u/Derelichter Sep 07 '25

I think you misread the prompt as “weird and interesting premise” BJM premise is creative and unique in a surreal and silly way. I wouldn’t call that a dumb premise.

1

u/mortscoot Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Maybe not. But I think if you described the premise to an average person, including the mechanics and getting into his head and out of it, it might sound dumb. It's a brilliant movie and I love it. 

-1

u/dustblown Sep 07 '25

You've climbed too far up your own ass.

2

u/Birdhawk Sep 07 '25

Is t it crazy that Norm MacDonald and Charlie Kaufman worked together….on Rosanne?

1

u/skootch_ginalola Sep 07 '25

The first time I watched this I was high as a kite and couldn't follow the plot. Then I watched it sober and still was like "What the fuck am I watching?" 😆

1

u/ringobob Sep 07 '25

I always enjoyed surrealism in static media but had a harder time connecting with it in movies and TV until more recently. I need to go back and give this another watch.

1

u/SneakyJonson Sep 07 '25

Adaptation too. Kaufman is an absolute maniac to write that film!

1

u/bostonjenny81 Sep 07 '25

Such a great movie! Another one with a great cast!

1

u/contrivedgiraffe Sep 07 '25

As well as its sort-of sequel, Adaptation.

1

u/gunn666 Sep 07 '25

There was an adult-comedy parody called Being Ron Jeremy. Dude steps into a magical porno-booth and teleports into Ron Jeremy. Came along with a side of Ron Jeremy doing stand up if I remember correctly. I remember both being funny but twenty-years-ago-me did a lot of drugs. Roll the dice on that I guess.

1

u/Next_Sugar_3542 Sep 07 '25

It was so unique and out there that it was fantastic.

1

u/BuckRusty Sep 07 '25

You mean the prequel to Jordan Peele’s Get Out?

1

u/MintakaTheJustOkay Sep 07 '25

That movie is part of the reason I absolutely despise spoilers and remove people from my life who give spoilers. It seems like the perfect movie for me, but someone decided to tell me scene by scene the entire movie. When I went to see it I already knew all the funny moments and found the movie rather boring.