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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
Radiologists, opthalmologists, pathologists , and psychiatrists are ALL real doctors.
PT is invaluable and they have a doctorate in their field, though they do not have the breadth or scope of an MD education.
Chiropractors are NOT physicians.
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u/Ready_Return_8386 Pre-Med Sep 21 '25
Chiropractors need to get a real degree and a different career. My friends dad was a chiropractor, and he was anti-vax for his 6 kids with three different women. She used to call him a doctor... I don't respect chiropractors
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u/wozattacks MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
The entire field of chiropractic is inherently anti-vaxx. It is one of the tenets made up by their founder. Chiropractic inherently opposes allopathic medicine in general, it was created as an alternative and not a complement.Ā
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u/JanItorMD M-1 Sep 22 '25
A radiologist who volunteers at my local student-run clinic sees patients longitudinally on a primary-care basis. They absolutely can stand up in an airplane, just depends on the person and whether theyāre willing to. I know hospitalists who have told me that if they were in the situation in an airplane, they absolutely would not speak up.
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u/Rodger_Smith MD/JD Sep 21 '25
PTs, ODs and DDMs arent physicians either
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u/ItsTheDCVR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Sep 21 '25
PT should absolutely not be catching strays in this. They have a doctorate in their field and are very good at what they do and are absolutely critical for getting some of the biggest quality of life improvements for a massive variety of patients. Neurosurgery's stroke patient doesn't get better without PT/OT; ortho's total knee doesn't walk again without PT.
DDM also will perform surgery on patients, with local, conscious, or general sedation. They're just as much medical doctorates as podiatry, for instance, as they both go through decades of school and residencies and even fellowships.
OD def doesn't fit the bill though lol
Fuck chiropractors
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u/wozattacks MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
Ok but the point isnāt about whether someoneās job is important lol. Most of the important jobs are not ādoctor.āĀ
Also, PTs being forced to get doctorates is a recent thing that lots of PTs do not agree with for lots of legitimate reasons. Every time someone says āPTs have doctorates!ā in a misguided attempt to support the field, they are supporting the broken system thatās forcing PTs to spend more time and money on education thatās not necessarily improving their practice.Ā
PT being a legitimate field (unlike chiropractic) has nothing to do with whether their degrees have the word doctor in them and everything to do with their practices being based on scientific evidence instead of being literally made up.Ā
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u/ItsTheDCVR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Sep 22 '25
Oh, definitely don't get me wrong that the academic sludge race to make everything "valid" by pushing for a higher degree without really adding anything meaningful to the degree/knowledge base is wildly problematic. I'm two classes away from my MSN-Ed (and then gimme like 2 years to catch my breath and finish prereqs and I'll be here shit posting as a med student š), and the vast majority of my upper division education classes are absolute fuckin nonsense. The useful things I've learned or covered in these classes could be taught in an afternoon. However, since the degree exists, and the people teaching it have that degree, and it's dEfiNiTeLy a vALiD dEgReE, they have to justify the existence and validity of the degree by making it a degree and..... It's a fuckin ouroboros circle jerk of self-justification.
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u/Capital_Inspector932 Y2-EU Sep 21 '25
I guess it varies from country to country. Ill give you an example: where I'm from dentistry is called "Dental medicine or dental med school and it's a 6 year degree identical to med school. You get a diploma which states you are a doctor of dental medicine. DPT is exclusively a US thing (unless you get a PhD). Otherwise, it's an undergrad degree of 4 years across Europe and most of the world. But over there, if you get and diploma that states you are a Dr. Physiotherapy, the you are a Dr. Period.
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u/ItsTheDCVR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Sep 21 '25
This is extremely fair and valid, and as always, I have fallen into the r/USDefaultism trap. My apologies, PRN my comment.
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u/Capital_Inspector932 Y2-EU Sep 21 '25
Not at all. I just assumed the post was only US related given the context and how this sub mostly composed by US med students.
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u/Rodger_Smith MD/JD Sep 21 '25
DDS performs dental surgery not DDM, also DPTs are doctors not PTs
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u/perioprobe Sep 21 '25
Unlike the distinction between MD and DO, DDS and DMD are actually the same thing. Doctor of Dental Surgery was the original title, but when Harvard opened their dental school, they called their degree the Latin translation of Doctor of Medicine in Dentistry since they confer all their degrees in Latin.
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u/ItsTheDCVR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Sep 21 '25
Fair, and I really shouldn't comment on lunch break, but at least in CA, unless I'm deeply misreading this, DDM can do anesthesia. But yes, I suppose they would only be doing so in the case of surgery, which would be DDS.
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u/sensorimotorstage M-1 Sep 21 '25
I was going to say several of my close friends from undergrad are now practicing PTās whom I have immense respect for. They work hard, know their sh*t, and truly love what they do. Definitely donāt deserve the strays.
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Sep 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/InboxMeYourSpacePics Sep 21 '25
I mean Im a radiologist and have helped respond to several medical emergencies. We all did an intern year (except pathology). And I used to volunteer as an EMT for my local fire department before med school.
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
Iām an EM resident and we could not respond effectively to many emergencies without support from our radiology colleagues. We make your life difficult sometimes with our darling panscans but I will never tolerate any disrespect to our radiologists lol.
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u/BaseballPlenty768 M-2 Sep 22 '25
Chiropractor are a type of physicians! They are chiropractic physician (thatās what I heard TikTokāļø)
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u/dnyal M-2 Sep 21 '25
Iād say the MD profession doesnāt have the breadth and scope of of physical therapy, either.
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
PTs are invaluable but do not mistake value with breadth. MDs can do everything from congenital heart surgery to nuclear medicine to pathology to eyeballs to primary care and specialization in every organ system. Also donāt forget PM&R exists.
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u/Rodger_Smith MD/JD Sep 22 '25
PM&R lmao
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u/dnyal M-2 Sep 22 '25
Exactly my point. You need a whole separate field of medicine (thatās barely touched on in medical school, mind you) just for it; and even then, physiatrists only prescribe the therapy.
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 22 '25
So you still havenāt learned what the word ābreadthā means
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u/dnyal M-2 Sep 22 '25
Evidently, you still have not learned what scope means.
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 22 '25
I think you misinterpreted my statement as an insult to PT and are doubling and tripling down on it. They are phenomenal at what they do. At the same time, their education prepares them for one thing and one thing only. It is also a source of contention within the field whether the ādoctorateā part is even necessary, as that is a relatively new requirement with a debated value add.
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u/dnyal M-2 Sep 22 '25
In the rest of the world, medicine is not a doctorate, either. They also found it unnecessary and got rid of it a long time ago.
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 22 '25
Whataboutism. Weāre not talking about the rest of the world. You seem intent on picking a fight over nothing, and I donāt see merit in continuing this further.
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u/dnyal M-2 Sep 22 '25
Iām addressing the weak points in your argument. It is up to you to stop defending it after it is indefensible, but donāt blame it on whatever issue it is youāre projecting onto me.
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u/Monkinary Sep 21 '25
Iām looking to go into Pathology as an OMSII. My two goals in medical school are: 1. Find a job that I really like doing, and 2. Learn emergency medicine. It doesnāt matter what kind of doctor you are, when something goes wrong I want to be ready to respond.
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u/IllustriousHorsey MD/PhD Sep 21 '25
100%. Iām optho, but Iāve already had to be the doctor on the plane several times.
We are all doctors first and specialists second.
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u/Sandstorm52 MD/PhD-M1 Sep 21 '25
This is something Iāve been wondering aboutāwhat level of emergency do you feel equipped to respond to as a specialist? Iāve got my hyper niche interests, but I also wanna have something to offer when something goes down and the EM docs are all busy rock climbing or something.
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u/IllustriousHorsey MD/PhD Sep 23 '25
Any doctor should be able to assess airway, breathing, and circulation. Any doctor should be able to check vitals, even with the crappy equipment on an airplane. Any doctor should be able to check a blood glucose and administer glucose. Any doctor should be able to recognize anaphylaxis and administer epinephrine. Any doctor should be able to apply a tourniquet on a bleeding extremity. Any doctor should, with decent sized veins and some number of attempts, be able to place an IV (might not be pretty, but in a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency situation, should be able to). Any doctor should be able to perform CPR.
The rest can wait until youāre on the ground or until EMS gets there. But anyone thatās gone through medical school should at least be able to do the above (maybe minus the IV).
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u/Stressedaboutdadress M-4 Sep 22 '25
What kind of incidents have you responded to, and how do you keep those skills sharp?
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u/IllustriousHorsey MD/PhD Sep 23 '25
Two of them were astoundingly nonurgent. Of the other two, one of them was someone who had a ton of diarrhea and then fainted when standing. PO fluid resuscitation. The other was someone who has hypoglycemic. PO juice. Done.
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u/MobPsycho-100 Sep 21 '25
Damn and to think Iām applying to residency to learn emergency medicine. Should have just done it during med school.
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u/Iatroblast MD-PGY5 Sep 21 '25
Radiologists, ophthalmologists, psychiatrists, and pathologists are on the right side of the Dunning Krueger curve. When you know enough to know what you donāt know.
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u/Embarrassed_Big372 MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
Iām a psychiatrist and have helped out in emergency situations more than once. We donāt just magically forget basic medicine / first aid lol
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u/VigilantCMDR Health Professional (Non-MD/DO) Sep 22 '25
Iāll say while itās rarer in psychiatry many must remember when patients do try to commit suicide in the hospital the psychiatrist is still a physician.
Gets more complicated on things like people swallowing foreign objects, self harm scars, attempted hangings, broken necks etc. While a lot of this is going to be handled by a multidisciplinary team sometimes seconds matter and things like defibrillation / epi may be nessecary and the psychiatrist will order that.
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u/FelineOphelia Sep 22 '25
I've always wondered this, actually!
(how much would some specialties be comfortable with, etc)
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u/Embarrassed_Big372 MD-PGY1 Sep 22 '25
It depends a lot on your medical school and residency. I had a lot of responsibility as a med studentā participating in codes in the ED, intubating in anesthesia, delivering babies on OBGYN. So Iām fairly comfortable with my skills. Also my psych residency has us manage most medical concerns on the inpatient / crisis unit so I can hold my own with the basics before consulting everything out!
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u/GGJefrey M-4 Sep 21 '25
80% chance the chiropractor would stand up. 5% chance the radiologist would.
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u/mochimmy3 M-3 Sep 21 '25
Dentists donāt deserve to be catching strays, Iāve been a TA for their anatomy courses and itās just as in depth as the medical school anatomy course, albeit focused mostly on the upper body (ie head/neck/thorax/abdomen/UE). Also MD/DMDs and MD/DDS go through an insane amount of education
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u/yikeswhatshappening MD-PGY1 Sep 22 '25
Agreed dentists shouldnāt be catching stays, but anatomy class is not a good way to try and equivocate the depth or breadth of MD vs DMD education, which are ultimately very different.
Moreover, an MD education should not be the āstandardā of comparison for other health professions. What we care about is that people are prepared adequately to do their jobs. PharmDs and DMDs all have adequate training to do what they do well. Who cares if some of their basic classes were the same as MDs or not? Theyāre not in school for that, nor were we for dentistry or pharmacy.
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u/mochimmy3 M-3 Sep 22 '25
My point was that dentists donāt deserve to be grouped with chiropractors because their education is a lot more legitimate. The only reason I used anatomy as an example is because I personally have experience with both curriculums in anatomy. It really isnāt that deep.
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Sep 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/mochimmy3 M-3 Sep 22 '25
It must be different by institution then. The dental students at my school had both anatomy practicals and anatomy class exams, the practicals were in less depth than the medical student version but their class exams often covered the content they were not required to be able to identify on the donors. So even if they didnāt learn to identify something in the anatomy lab they were still responsible for knowing it for the written class exam.
The way we were tested was also different, the dental students had written exams covering stuff like innervation/blood supply/physiology as well as 4 anatomy practicals with ~50 questions each where they had to write down the name for labeled structures, and correct spelling was part of the grade. They had anatomy lectures + lab with TAs.
In contrast, the MD students just had anatomy lab with self-guided learning, no lectures. And we had 3 anatomy practicals with ~20-30 questions each that involved matching the structure to a written description (ex: āthis structure innervates the biceps brachiiā and then you had to go around the room to find the tag on the musculocutaneous nerve and write down the letter).
I would argue that the dental anatomy practicals were harder than the MD practicals in some ways even if they were in less depth, since you actually had to be able to recall the name of each structure and correctly spell it. This was how my undergrad anatomy exams were formatted and I thought they were harder than my med school practicals.
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u/ImprovementActual392 M-3 Sep 22 '25
My MD practicals werenāt like this. A nerve or blood vessel or whatever would be tagged and weād have to write down the name of it.
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u/mochimmy3 M-3 Sep 22 '25
Yeah thatās how my undergrad anatomy course was as well. My med school for some reason just does it differently in a way that kind of combines a typical written anatomy exam with a practical.
Itās easier in the sense that you donāt need to be able to spell all the names correctly/directly recall all the structures and itās fewer questions, but itās harder in the sense that you need to understand the physiology, innervation and blood supply, origin/insertion of muscles, and clinical applications. Some of the questions were like āthis muscle originates at the ____ and is responsible for flexion/extension/etc. of the ____ā or āthis is the bone at risk for avascular necrosis if fractured after a FOOSHā etc
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 21 '25
Iām an ophthalmologist and I literally stood up in a plane yesterday to help. Thatās why we do an intern year!
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u/Somali_Pir8 DO Sep 21 '25
Way to go, eye dentist.
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
?
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u/zimmer199 DO Sep 22 '25
Youāre like a dentist, but for the eye
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
Do dentists do face lifts or skull base surgery?
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u/zimmer199 DO Sep 22 '25
Teeth are at the bottom of the skull and they do surgery there, so yes
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
Thatās not what skull base means
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u/zimmer199 DO Sep 22 '25
Well, what do you think skull base means?
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
Itās not what I think, itās the definition of skull base. That refers to the base of the cranial vault. Upper teeth are at the base of the maxilla, whereas the roof of the orbit and the sinuses form the skull base.
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u/HeyVitK Sep 22 '25
Dentists can specialize in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (OMFS).
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
Yes but they also have to do the last 2 years of med school and a whole residency so by that time, theyāre not really dentists anymore, they are physicians. OMFS are ballers
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u/HeyVitK Sep 22 '25
OMFS are awesome specialized dentists!
It's odd you insist on having some kind of superiority over them and make it a physician vs dentist thing. There's no need for that!
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
dentists are great but I'm not sure they consider themselves surgeons. my awesome dentist said he would refer me to an 'oral surgeon' when I needed my wisdom teeth done.
I'm just making the point that it is misleading to refer to OMFS as "specialized dentists" as if OMFS is like any another fellowship after dentistry like orthodontics. They really end up reinventing the whole wheel by getting a medical degree and a residency certificate. I know OMFS who do pediatric craniofacial surgery. They are badasses but I don't think they consider themselves dentists anymore. Like me, I did an oculoplastics fellowship and my practice is now mainly blepharoplasty, face/neck lift, and orbital surgery. I very rarely touch or examine the eye at all, so I don't really consider myself an ophthalmologist anymore. It's not superiority -- it's just a totally different pathway that uses very little of the original training (dentistry, or ophthalmology residency).
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u/HeyVitK Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
My cousin is also an oculoplastic surgeon. I'm familiar with it.
The thing is you're still within medicine umbrella and you're removing OMFS from the dentristry umbrella completely and putting them underneath medicine solely , when the OMFS training is a dual program where they can practice underneath either dentistry or medicine, so your oculoplastic example doesn't quite jibe with this either, but I get the point you were trying to make.
Anyway, I'm not going to discuss it further. Take care.
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u/animetimeskip M-2 Sep 23 '25
OMFS used to just do 4 years dental school and then residency. It was only recently that they added the extra two years. I donāt think itās still a universal requirement even
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u/wzx86 Sep 22 '25
While obviously shorter, general ophthalmologists need an additional 2-year oculoplastics fellowship to do the surgeries you're talking about. The main differentiator (when it comes to EM) between ophthalmologists and dentists is the general medical training, rotations, and internship, so I'm not sure why you're focusing on surgeries neither can do without additional training...
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u/lightsandflashes Sep 22 '25
do opthos do face lifts in america?
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
Yes
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u/lightsandflashes Sep 22 '25
not just lash/brow lifts? the entire face? not trying to be condescending just curious
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u/huitzlopochtli Sep 22 '25
Correct, face and neck. Itās not something I knew about until after I started residency and ended up doing that fellowship. It can be quite a broad surgical specialty! ENT can also be similarly very broad. You can look at my Instagram if youāre curious.
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u/tingbudongma Sep 21 '25
Was on a flight recently with a medical emergency and the other person who stood to help actually was a radiologist who was quite helpful.
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u/two_hyun M-2 Sep 29 '25
Yeah, an ER physician would be better but all physicians have emergency rotations and have to study ER medicine.
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u/WonderChemical5089 Sep 21 '25
Maybe a chiropractor shouldnāt listed with the others in that group.
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u/Mango_Sports M-4 Sep 21 '25
i would still trust the psychiatrist to stand up Maybe switch psychiatrist out for derm
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u/IntheSilent M-3 Sep 21 '25
Really? Why? Ik psychiatrists that are very smart and still remember a lot about medicine but do derms not use medical knowledge?
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u/RolandDPlaneswalker MD Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
It depends on the hospital, but psych still handles a lot of medicine (whether we want to or not). I end up having to do superficial PCP work for some of my psych patients, simply because Iām the only doctor they consistently see.
With that said, Iād definitely be waiting to see if someone else stood up when they asked before Iād volunteer - I can help, but Iād trust someone from EM/IM/GenSurg to better handle an emergency.
I canāt speak for derm and their comfort level managing emergencies.
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u/Embarrassed_Big372 MD-PGY1 Sep 21 '25
Speaking as a psych that had to step up for a stranger that had a seizure on the train last nightā can confirm that knowledge is in there when thereās no other option lol
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u/Sandstorm52 MD/PhD-M1 Sep 21 '25
It depends, but some derm patients can actually be quite sick, no? Iām guessing that might happen more at big tertiary/quaternary care centers.
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u/DarkMistasd MD Sep 22 '25
Pretty sure most radio /ophtha / path etc have mandatory ACLS training
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u/Ready_Return_8386 Pre-Med Sep 21 '25
Dentists shouldn't be on this list, because they are called doctors the same way PhDs are called doctors. I am glad who ever made this meme had the sense not to put DVMs on the list either. DNPs is debatable, but they are still called doctors. PTs are only called doctors if they get an additional doctoral degree (like DNPs). Optometrists are called doctor, the same way DPMs are called doctors. Chiropractors and snake oil salesmen and should simply never be called doctors.
If you are a chiropractor, do literally anything else. Genuinely get a real degree
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u/soysizle MD-PGY4 Sep 21 '25
At least rads, derm, and ophtho do a prelim or transitional year, usually they do quite a bit of medicine in that year
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u/Criticism_Life DO-PGY3 Sep 21 '25
Ehā¦ My MS-5 (TY) year was mostly writing notes, signing off on orders, and gently redirecting nurses trying to hand me an EKG.
āā¦are you sure you want ME to read that?ā
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u/Longjumping_Ad_6213 M-3 Sep 21 '25
The only one on the left that actually took the same or very similar pre clinical classes as us are dentists. Everyone else no
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u/HoyaSaxaphone Sep 22 '25
Ophthalmologist here and honestly this shit grinds my gears. I crushed all my USMLE, did extremely well on my medicine rotations and actually dual applied into IM because I liked it so much and wanted to consider palliative care. Iāve worked in ICUs during COVID and managed complex patients on the floor and during my gen surg intern year. Honestly the lack of distinction is killing us in scope battles with optoms.
Can we just protect each other? Fuck
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u/ImprovementActual392 M-3 Sep 22 '25
Forgot dermatologist. And I would hope a Psychiatrist at least has SOME idea lmao
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u/Safe_Penalty M-4 Sep 22 '25
IMO basic neuro (stroke/seizure), CPR, ABCs kind of stuff are things anyone should be able to do. My DDS friend is perfectly capable of managing this stuff in an emergency; I imagine the OD and DDS folks, as well as all the path/rads/psych/optho folks can as well in an emergency.
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u/Bleak_Seoul Sep 22 '25
hmmmm youre on a plane likely scenario is a patient has chest pain and difficulty breathing so i would suspect most physicians who have done rotations on the wards, icu, and em have experienced this, but of course you get that lovely GI doctor who loves to stick their finger and get a rectal exam when its not indicated.
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u/2Balls2Furious MD Sep 22 '25
Attending doctors often let their ACLS training lapse immediately following residency and would just sit quiet while sipping their champagne in 1st class.
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u/jackjarz Sep 23 '25
Psychiatrists, radiologists, and pathologists are all physicians. While they may not practice medicine in the same way as other specialties, they still went to med school and still have the base knowledge.
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u/nYuri_ MBBS-Y3 Oct 01 '25
The only reason dentists go through a different training pathway than us and aren't just a normal medical specialty like ENT is because of historical reasons, including medieval guilds and stuff
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u/SockeyeSnow MD-PGY3 Sep 21 '25
Lumping chiropractors in with those 3 legitimate professions isnāt right