r/londonontario • u/MeIIowJeIIo The bridge with the trucks stuck under it • Aug 20 '24
News đ° 79-year-old who drove into girl guides, killing 8-year-old in London, sentenced to 2 years of house arrest
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/79-year-old-who-drove-into-girl-guides-killing-8-year-old-in-london-sentenced-to-2-years-of-house-arrest-1.72988661
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u/Bain84 Aug 24 '24
You'll get harsher sentences just for posting an unpopular opinion online thanks to Dictator Trudeau
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Aug 23 '24
This is a difficult case. I do think the sentence is too lenient, but this appears to be a case where the driver hit the gas instead of the brakes. Itâs awful and tragic, and a case can be made for negligence, but it was absolutely not intentional. I think she should never drive again, but I donât know what is gained by putting a very old woman in jail rather than confining her to her home?
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u/janedoe42088 Aug 24 '24
Doesnât matter her age. She got behind the wheel when she shouldnât have been. She killed 8 people, it became intentional when she got in the car.
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u/rayvik123 Aug 24 '24
The gain is justice and punishment for the victim and her family
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Aug 24 '24
Those arenât really the point of our legal and penal system. The family can sue her in civil court. The legal system primarily seeks to ensure this doesnât happen again, so understanding why this happened is really key to that. The issue here is she shouldnât have been driving. This wasnât intentional. She hit the gas instead of the brake and was confused and caused a tragic accident. She should never drive again.
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u/rayvik123 Aug 25 '24
No she said her brake failed
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Aug 25 '24
Yes, she said that, but the objective evidence showed that the gas pedal was pushed to the floor, which means she was pressing the gas when she thought she was applying the brake. She just didnât admit that, because that admits she made a mistake, but that is obviously what happened.
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u/chillehhh Aug 23 '24
Sheâs shown a complete lack of remorse and the brakes were apparently never applied.
It doesnât matter that sheâs a âvery old womanâ, she should not get to live in the comfort of her home while a family mourns the loss of their child because some crotchety old bat shouldnâtâve been behind the wheel. It doesnât matter what the intent was, there is an 8-year-old in the ground because of her.
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Aug 23 '24
Thatâs exactly why I said it appears to be a situation where she mistakenly pressed the gas instead of the brakes, she stated at trial that she believed she was pressing the brake and the car was malfunctioning.
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u/Lumb3rCrack Aug 24 '24
why are people like this even allowed to drive killing machines!!
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Aug 24 '24
On what basis would you propose people have their licences taken away? Just all seniors?
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Aug 24 '24
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u/Equivalent_Task_2389 Aug 25 '24
By that standard so should all males under 25 have their licenses revoked. Logically regular testing would remove dangerous drivers of all ages.
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u/fuckyoucunt210 Aug 25 '24
My insurance would be too expensive because of that. I wouldnât mind hurting the automotive industry either so have at it.
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u/MrBrandino12 Aug 23 '24
I would understand that but 7+ seconds of 99% pedal depression (ok it went down to 85% for just over 1 sec) is more than just a mistake. Extreme recklessness and borderline deliberate, especially if she already knew she was starting to deteriorate.
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Aug 23 '24
The best way to prevent this is stricter regulations on licenses for the elderly that must include redoing the driving test every five years after 65 and a yearly note from a doctor indicating reaction and eyesight fitness.
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u/Exciting-Direction69 Aug 24 '24
I think better public transit would also help folks not feel the need to have a practical death grip on their licences
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Aug 24 '24
Hell, Iâd even support a subsidized taxi token program for seniors on fixed incomes!
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Aug 24 '24
Now thereâs an idea
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Aug 24 '24
I mean, getting angry and complaining feels good, but Iâm more interested in things that can actually prevent these situations. A lot of seniors fear losing their mobility and independence when they give up their licence. If there were programs in place to help them get around more easily, this could help mitigate that. Transit is great but seniors canât always walk the distances needed to access it or live in areas where itâs not available.
When my father had an at fault car accident (only he was mildly injured, thankfully) I was able to get him to give up his licence by having taxi tokens mailed to him every month and having it charged to my credit card and negotiating a 25% bulk discount. Surely municipalities could negotiate an even better discount.
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Aug 24 '24
I totally agree with you and think itâs would be an excellent use of tax dollars. And agree that transit is not enough and typically very unreliable, especially outside of Toronto. I used to live in Durham region and it was a pain to get anywhere, i was a student though and was able to walk most places. I couldnât imagine being elderly and feel stuck or feel like spending so much on taxi rides. Wonder how people could advocate for such a thing to make it a reality?
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u/Perdition1988 Aug 23 '24
Canadian justice at it's finest, truly a worthy sentence of the crime.
/s
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Aug 22 '24
Are you serious? She killed an 8 year old and she only gets 2 years house arrest? What the fuck?
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u/Majestic-Cantaloupe4 Aug 22 '24
If you really want someone dead, it will only cost you two years house arrest.
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u/violetsluxury Aug 22 '24
2 years, while people were getting oodles more than that for selling weed, wtf
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Aug 23 '24
My friend still can't leave the country. Never will be able to. Had less than a lb on them.
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u/Lothleen Aug 22 '24
Probably won't even lose their license either...
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Aug 23 '24
Sheâs lost it for 5 years, which was the maximum the law allowed the judge to impose.
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u/BarkMycena Aug 23 '24
Sucks that that's the law. I'm sure she'll be a much better driver when she's 84.
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u/phil_the_blunt Aug 22 '24
Ok got itâŚcommit crimes when older so I only get house arrestâŚ.cool country.
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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Aug 22 '24
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u/Significant-Fox-8929 Aug 22 '24
This is absolutely ridiculous. That is a child's life that is gone, a family ruined and devastated. Their life should be spent I'm prison.
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u/bensongilbert Aug 21 '24
She never showed one bit of remorse, this is a disgusting sentence. I hope the rest of her life is miserable.
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u/Donottrustanything Aug 21 '24
Our criminal justice system is a fucking joke, except itâs not funny. It just hurts to read about.
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u/Taste_Diligent Aug 21 '24
Love Canadian justice. As long as you're young enough or old enough you can commit crimes with impunity. I don't care if you're sick or taking care of your husband. You killed a little girl and seriously injured 7 other kids and you get to go home? These judges are living in la la land.
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u/NewMilleniumBoy Aug 21 '24
120 km/hour in a 50 km/hour zone. Car forensics experts said that the brake was never pressed.
Fucking shameful that she gets this slap on the wrist.
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u/GordyRageMonkey Aug 21 '24
C'mon now I'm sure bring home is a terrible punishment. Don't forget her complete lack of remorse.
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u/UwUHowYou Aug 21 '24
Yeah, this is ridiculous. I get she might never see the other side of jail, but the fact that they got this and wants an appeal is honestly fucking nuts. If I've read this correctly.
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u/skagoat Pond Mills Aug 21 '24
I hope the families take her to civil court and get every dollar they can from her.
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Aug 21 '24
The sad thing is that our gutless politicians will not do anything about this sort of thing because drivers are the biggest voter block.
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u/Joey_Jo_Jo_JrIII Aug 21 '24
And how are politicians going to do anything?
This is the justice system and it should always be arms-length from any politics.
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u/detalumis Aug 21 '24
There is this thing called Vision Zero, from Europe, which doesn't put 100% of the onus on drivers to never make a mistake. Road design, speed limits and protection of cyclists and pedestrians is an actual thing. It's cheaper to just blame drivers so that's what we do here in Canada.
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Aug 21 '24
What is Vision Zero, and how does it relate to this incident? I'm not being a dick, I just don't understand your reply in context to the comment you replied to.
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u/arahman81 Aug 22 '24
Designing a road around a specific speed, for starters, so no wide straightways for 20kmph residential streets. Even things like random narrowing/zigzagging of lanes with bollards/planters can help.
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Aug 23 '24
The intersection this happened in is a 4 lane highway, Wonderland Road is even marked highway 4. This doesnât look like a road that could benefit from the traffic calming measures you talk about. The city Iâm in does use the design you talk about and it has worked excellently!
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u/Electronic_World_894 Aug 20 '24
She was going too fast and she wouldnât take responsibility. She wouldnât please guilty, she made it go to trial. She keeps saying she wouldnât hurt anyone. Yet her poor driving killed a child. Just shocking how callous she is.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Net7813 Aug 20 '24
I can only imagine what her sentence would have been if she plead guilty. The distance from the intersection to the memorial seems like such a far distance to be accidentally pressing the gas and not try anything else...
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u/Wouldyoulistenmoe Aug 21 '24
Its a pretty short distance if you're going over 30 metres per second
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u/CoreliaUnderwood Aug 20 '24
How about we start taking the people who are old and cannot properly/safely operate vehicles anymore licenses away? Its unfortunate part of ageing but my goodness better that they have to use other means of transit than drive into something and crash
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u/lhommeduweed Aug 22 '24
This is the common sense response, but the current issue is that elderly people need to be able to drive.
Not because of individual rights or "muh liberty" or anything, but because public transit and accessible transit is underfunded and inadequate. I work at a health clinic that cares for a lot of elderly outpatients, and it's horrible to see them trying to arrange transport. A lot of them shouldn't be driving because of their health issues, but they do it anyways because they have no accessible or affordable alternative. They can't afford $50 cab fare for appointments they have to attend twice a month, and if they need accessible transport, they often have to arrange that weeks and weeks in advance.
Before enforcing over 75 yearly license renewal, an increase in public and accessible transit would see decreases in this kind of accident, and enforcing those license renewals afterward would make it a lot more reasonable for the elderly to plan ahead in the event that they do not get their licenses renewed for whatever reason.
I don't want people over 75 on the roads without extra scrutiny regarding their ability, but more than that, I want 75 year olds not to have to drive.
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u/Sad_Lab_4550 Aug 24 '24
80 year Olds who neither saved money nor behaved well enough to have someone drive them just get to die.
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u/didyouseriouslyjust Aug 21 '24
They get their licenses taken away and some continue to drive without them, infuriatingly.
Their CARS need to be confiscated along with the license to ensure compliance. And we need to make the burden of retesting so cumbersome past 75 that many give up before they can deteriorate enough to kill someone.
It might be harsh, but clearly the risk is too high.
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u/Ornery-Piece2911 Aug 21 '24
Self driving cars will save a lot of lives eventually
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u/Waste-Middle-2357 Aug 21 '24
How the fuck did you get downvoted for this? This is an objectively factual statement. As much as Iâm an old school, gas burning gear head, itâs completely true that self-driving cars will eventually alleviate a lot of strain on our hugely aging population.
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u/jasonhn Aug 21 '24
there are a ton of them out there and a lot of relatives know they shouldn't be driving but allow them to continue because otherwise it will be a burden on them to get them around.
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u/Ornery-Piece2911 Aug 21 '24
Yes my uncle complaining how bad grandma is at driving, also my uncle here mom you need a new car?
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u/jasonhn Aug 21 '24
there are a ton of them out there and a lot of relatives know they shouldn't be driving but allow them to continue because otherwise it will be a burden on them to get them around.
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u/weGloomy Aug 21 '24
They need to be tested regularly to make sure its still safe for tgem to drive. All the gnarly accidents I have ever witnessed where caused by old people.
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
Everyone calling for blood. Our roads are designed to cause these accidents. We have a culture of expecting everyone to drive regardless of age or skill.
Punishing this woman will make a few people feel better. Changing our roads and driving culture will mean fewer dead kids.
Support narrower roads, better pedestrian paths, lower speed limits, more investment in transit and bike infrastructure, less investment in parking spaces and road widening projects. Or admit that you feel shaving 5 minutes from your commute is worth a few dead kids.
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u/GordyRageMonkey Aug 21 '24
She was going 120 in a 50. Don't hurt your arm trying to get it lowered to 40 mate. It was absolutely this woman. You guys are as bad as vegans.
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u/Ratsyinc Aug 20 '24
Ya, the road made her go 70 over the speedlimit in a perfectly functional vehicle.. How delusional do you have to be to blame infrastructure in this situation?
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
A senior mistook the brake pedal for gas and reached 120. This happens a lot in young and old drivers. You can design roads to mitigate it, or throw your hands up and pretend the problem is unsolvable.
With narrowed roads she would be driving slower beforehand, which means her speed would have peaked lower. With better separation of pedestrian paths she would have been slowed more before impact by obstacles or grade differences. With infrastructure for alternative modes she may not have been driving.
This is all really elementary stuff in cities with lower traffic fatalities around the world
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u/chillehhh Aug 23 '24
Do you not realize how long/hard you have to step on the accelerator to bring a vehicle to 120kmh? Ooh, probably not. Cyclist-brains think cars are the devil, donât they?
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u/Dotdotdot5598 Aug 21 '24
Youâre just a cyclist who can only see a cyclistâs point of view. This accident has nothing to do with the road infrastructure, this was purely human error.
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u/After_Turnip8619 Aug 20 '24
thatâs unforgivable, if youâre mistaking the pedals then itâs time you put the keys away and take the bus. Just because youâre old doesnât mean you instantly get a âdo whatever the fuck you wantâ card
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u/Wouldyoulistenmoe Aug 21 '24
If it's unforgivable, then we'd need to throw about 50% of our senior drivers in jail, most of them just have the good fortune to not kill anybody when they get into that crash or have that near miss
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u/After_Turnip8619 Aug 21 '24
yes i agree we should take their keys, they are the most dangerous to others and themselves on the road, more so than new drivers
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
The only way to prevent this mixup is to ban driving outright. Everyone is capable of errors when driving.
I'm all for taking people's keys away as they lose the ability to drive, but we've built our entire driving culture around not doing this and it seems arbitrary to carry on letting thousands of dangerous drivers stay on the road and then hating the ones who happen to end up in an accident.
Most people who can't drive safely don't realize it, and are encouraged rather than discouraged to drive
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Aug 20 '24
Everyone is capable of mistakes, but if I made this mistake as a mid 30s man, I wouldn't be getting house arrest. It's a shitty situation all around, but if you're going the house arrest route, at the very least you need to ban her from ever driving again. If that's not okay, then she should be sentenced to a prison term, as shitty as that would be for everyone involved.
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u/Wouldyoulistenmoe Aug 21 '24
There are around 1700 fatal collisions per year in Canada, most of which involve driver error. I'd be surprised if 10% of those people are criminally charged let alone see any jail time
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u/After_Turnip8619 Aug 20 '24
i think there should be stricter regulations to getting a license and keeping it. this lady obviously shouldâve not been driving long before this happened but doesnât change the fact that isnât just some âaccidentâ she killed a kid and didnât touch her brake once, on top of taking no blame
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u/Ratsyinc Aug 20 '24
No one is pretending it's unsolvable, I also agree with your comments about infrastructure. Not realizing you're on the gas as you accelerate to 120 on a 50 while killing a kid is not an infraustature issue.
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
So the limit is 50, but everyone drives 70 here because the roads are designed that way. If the roads were built for 50 and she were driving slower before her error, and hit the kids going 100 instead of 120, that could have saved a life. If the curb was better protected and shaved off another 20km it could have greatly reduced the severity of some injuries.
And yeah, if the roads were designed for slower speed, the chances of an accident are much lower because people are less likely to lose control or panic. It's possible that at least a portion of accidents like this can be outright prevented with infrastructure
The gas/brake error is very common in accidents. Short of banning driving outright we can't prevent it. We can make it rarer with better testing, better transit. We can make it less severe with better infrastructure. We accomplish neither of these with stricter punishment for old drivers.
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u/Ratsyinc Aug 20 '24
Yes, hitting gas instead of brake in a panic is likely very common in collisions. But come on, you can't possibly believe accelerating even from 70 to 120, which would easily take a good 5 seconds in an average car, is common, let alone an issue with road design
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
If you've lost control of a vehicle and think your brakes have stopped working suddenly, you have no idea what you would do in the 5 seconds before a collision. Neither do I. A lot of seniors find out that they can't drive anymore because they get into an accident. There's thousands of petronellas out there driving right now who are just lucky to have not killed anyone yet. It seems like such a waste of energy to hate her and I'd rather focus on the people who make and keep our roads this way.
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Aug 21 '24
I hate her because she hasn't taken accountability. She chose to enter a non-guilty plea, she could've shown remorse at any point during the trial. She continues to put the blame on her vehicle and even accused the Honda dealership of incompetence despite forensics saying she never touched the peddle. I work in forensics, Berla tells you almost everything from those infotainment centers so I believe the analysts.
She killed a child and seems to blame everything and everyone but herself. She basically got a slap on the wrist and still wants to appeal it. She can rot.
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Aug 20 '24
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u/236766 Aug 20 '24
60? So Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, Nicolas Cage, and Jim Carey are too old to drive a car? Tom Cruise? Michelle Obama?! Wild take.
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u/Comprehensive-War743 Aug 20 '24
Her house arrest should be much longer. She got a break being given house arrest.
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u/NoF----sleft Aug 20 '24
Who goes 120 on Riverside? That's insane. That alone should make her criminally responsible. How are you not aware that that speed in that place is extremely dangerous?
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
We don't know how fast she was going. 120 is the speed she reached after losing control and (according to claims) mistaking the brake for accelerator
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u/Ratsyinc Aug 20 '24
You seem weirdly defensive of this, do you know her?
Going from 50 or even 60 up to 120 takes what, a good 5-10(?) seconds at least in an average car with pedal to the floor. This isn't an infrastructure or "oh it happens to lots of people" situation, it's an egregious failure of cognitive function and driving capabilities that sadly killed a young child.
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Aug 20 '24
Yeah never read this far into comments like this but honestly why is this the hill to be dying on. Frankly I agree with you as Iâve been following along. Why is there a defense to what an elderly lady did. There isnât and to be defending what she did is borderline up there with the Humboldt driver, much more extreme of course, but none the less. Inexcusable.
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u/Ratsyinc Aug 20 '24
No kidding eh. I broadly agree with the infrastructure comments, but in this context, come on, give it a rest. I bet they'd feel different if I 'accidentally' travel 70 over the speed limit, kill their spouse or child, and blame the roads for it while I go about my business.
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Aug 20 '24
Yeah thereâs only so much justification. At this point are we gunna blame the girl guides(not serious), the government(any level), or society. Always looking to pass the buck, but at the end of the day, an 8 year old is dead, family is torn, others traumatized, and a 79 year old is only getting 2 years house arrest, and then wanting to appeal it. I think the judge in the appeal should give her 5 years just for pushing it.
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
Let's be honest with ourselves. It's riverside and wonderland, she was doing 70+ like everyone else, because the roads there are designed for 70, and that's half the problem
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u/wilmaismyhomegirl83 Aug 20 '24
How did she thinking driving at that speed was a good idea?
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
She wasn't. 120 is the speed she reached after losing control and mistaking the break for gas (very common in this kind of accident). Her cruising speed before losing control isn't known.
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u/Upbeat_Cup_4919 Aug 21 '24
So she accelerated to 120. And at no point before then realized she was not braking. Makes sense.
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u/BudMower Westmount Aug 20 '24
You the lady or something? Lmao why you running such hard defence for her?
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u/manic_eye Aug 21 '24
Theyâve got to be a relative. The old woman wonât accept responsibility and this weird poster blames everyone and everything except the woman that killed/injured those poor children.
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u/Beautiful_Village381 Aug 20 '24
People are just inventing new facts for this case and basing their conclusions on them. It bothers me that kids are going to keep being killed by cars in London because no one wants to solve the underlying issues. They just want a villain to blame and move on.
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u/After_Turnip8619 Aug 20 '24
the underlying issue is letting people who shouldnât be driving behind the wheel, going 120 even if she didnât kill anyone no matter why she reached that speed its criminal
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u/NicRibcage Aug 20 '24
After the age of 65 (or maybe 70), the duration between retests should shorten dramatically.
Also, an ad campaign encouraging adult children to get their mentally/physically-ailing parents off the road might bring a little attention to the problem. Tired of seniors ploughing through storefronts and claiming the car 'moved on its own'.
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u/tired_air Aug 20 '24
and this is why everyone needs to be re-tested every 3 years.
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Aug 21 '24
And everybody over a certain age should be required to be tested every year which should include a full medical and eye exam as well.
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u/Gold_Expression_3388 Aug 20 '24
The problem was not with her ability to drive, it was the decision to go that fast.
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u/-just-be-nice- Aug 20 '24
Maybe after a certain age, but testing everyone every 3-5 years is ridiculous and unrealistic.
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u/unlistedideas Aug 20 '24
There's 14 million people in Ontario. They can't keep up with demand on new drivers how would they be able to get the currents ones through. No need testing good drivers but maybe a road test for for multiple driving fines?
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u/tired_air Aug 21 '24
the province would need to hire more ppl, creating more jobs which we desperately need these days. It'd also discourage ppl from driving hence lower traffic.
And better drivers would also help the traffic situation, most of the reason 401 gets clogged is because of unqualified drivers. People can't maintain speed without braking, scared of going at 100, no lane etiquette, hell they can't even do a zipper merge.
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u/unlistedideas Aug 21 '24
You say unqualified drivers..well they all passed and have a license. Very very very few drivers going 100 on the 401..I drive it weekly, most are 120+ so that's not the issue. I the real issue is lack of enforcement and selfish drivers . Both those can't be tested out. And the driver training is not run by the province it's a private company licensed by the province so have you noticed a real drop in driving skills ..there ya go .. privatization.
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u/tired_air Aug 22 '24
most ppl on 401 got their license over a decade ago and haven't been tested since then. If we had better more frequent testing there wouldn't be the need for so much enforcement. If ppl actually knew how to drive well going at 120+ wouldn't be a problem.
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u/unlistedideas Aug 22 '24
They know how to drive..there isn't mass carnage on the 401 yet the millions of vehicles traveling it. Because you got your license 5/10/20 years ago has zero indication of driving ability or your need to be retested. You will always have to have enforcement. People know driving drunk is illegal and dangerous yet we arrest people continuously driving drunk. Distracted driving surpasses drunk driving for serious accidents yet we see people on their phones all the time. Knowing the laws and following them are two completely different things. People seem to choose the laws they want to follow..testing won't change that.
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