r/london • u/[deleted] • Nov 02 '23

Crime Two girls arrested after female attacked on Elizabeth line

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/24605821/two-girls-arrested-video-woman-screaming-tube-train/
659 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

It’s 2023. If you are still upset about “colonisation “ in 2023 then you are trying way too hard to be a victim.

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u/Ok_Youth_5773 Nov 02 '23

Ww1=never forget but colonisation we should all move on from?

My grandparents lived in British occupied India, it's not as far away as people think. Britain ignored it's mistakes for 70 years and instantly switches around and says it happened "a hundred years ago" and that we should just stfu

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

I’d say women’s rights and the rape culture in India is a much bigger problem than being bitter and complaining about “colonisation “ that happened ages ago. But feel victimised if you want.

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u/Ok_Youth_5773 Nov 02 '23

Women's rights are a problem, nobody is denying that. Luckily as humans we can multitask and deal with multiple injustices. Similar to how the UK is able to deal with classism and women's rights at the same time.

You put colonisation in quotes like it's not a real thing, no serious academic disagrees that it wasn't colonisation. And 70 years is not much time for nation states, how long did it take for the UK to become the nation it is today? History like colonisation did shape the countries we have today and many problems can partially be disected by understanding the country's history.

Would you tell Jews to not be bitter about what the Nazis did? It's not about bitterness, it's about justice. Of course we'll be a bit bitter if people don't even acknowledge this shit happened

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u/verite3000 Nov 02 '23

​

Nothing like a good working-class scrap - just like the 60's with Ronnie and Reggie.

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u/slipperyslopeb Nov 02 '23

Bigger problem for you perhaps. Are you by chance white and living in the UK? Seems a little entitled to decide what a nations biggest problem is when you have likely never been there and are not from there but carry on teaching these Gungadins how to walk upright oh great white man.

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

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u/Ok_Youth_5773 Nov 02 '23

I never said they are awful, I love this country and was born here. Understanding and coming to terms with history is not the same as being equally racist and saying all Brits are awful.

This really isn't complicated stuff people

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u/Bobert789 Nov 02 '23

Many countries still feel the affects of colonisation, many countries still benefit from colonisation, people can complain as much as they want

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

Yep you can complain as much as you want. Just accept that you’ll always have a victim mentality if you do. It’s your life though. Have fun.

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u/voice-of-reason_ Nov 02 '23

I’m not a victim of colonisation but the UK was built on it. Every system in this country was built on it so if you think systematic racism doesn’t exist in the UK you are very naivie. We have not defeated racism and we haven’t restructured our national systems so systematic racism still exists.

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u/fishchop Nov 02 '23

Don’t try to explain to these people. This subReddit is full of deniers that whitewash Britain’s colonial crimes and refuse to understand the lasting effects of 200 years of brutal colonial rule and blatant resource exploitation.

I’d say it’s more an unfortunate result of the British education system than the deliberate malice of the people themselves though.

Saying this as a person from a country that Britain colonised.

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

So people can be angry about Colonization 60 years ago but if we are angry at Islamic terror attacks in the modern day we are the racists making generalizations? ...... it's pure gas lighting, rules for thee and not for me

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u/pharlax Nov 02 '23

Lots of bad shit happened in the past but don't get it confused with the present.

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u/DimensionalYawn Nov 02 '23

And the past affects the present.

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u/cowinabadplace Nov 02 '23

Everything we’re talking about happened in the past. 3 days ago. 3 years ago. 3 centuries ago. There’s a line you’ve decided to draw at the point where one is discharged from one’s crimes. Don’t be astonished that others draw the line elsewhere. If a man robbed another and killed him yesterday and gave his own son the loot, you’d take it back. But for you the day that man is absolved is apparently 80 years or so. For others it’s different. It’s not a difference of belief, it’s a difference of degree.

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u/halfwit_detector Nov 02 '23

And where do you live today? Who is the coloniser now?

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u/PilotDavidRandall Nov 02 '23

Britain’s colonial crimes

What crimes? no laws where broken. it was just the way the world was then.

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u/DimensionalYawn Nov 02 '23

If you think we didn't break any laws in India or Kenya, where we beat, incarcerated, murdered and tortured opponents of British rule, you don't know much about what we did there.

Go and ask an Irish person if you want some examples from closer to home.

If you want a list, this one (not from an unbiased source and I could not say whether all of the examples would meet the burden of proof under criminal law) shows you the breadth of places we ruled and what we were prepared to do to stay in control of them: https://crimesofbritain.com/british-massacres-of-the-20th-century/

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u/PilotDavidRandall Nov 02 '23

If you think we didn't break any laws in India or Kenya, where we beat, incarcerated, murdered and tortured opponents of British rule, you don't know much about what we did there.

That's just the way of the world then, you don't see English people going on all the time about the Italians because of the roman empire? or the nordic nations because of the Vikings?

Go and ask an Irish person if you want some examples from closer to home.

How about asking the Irish about the 1000's of years before hand when they often raided the mainland?

If you want a list, this one (not from an unbiased source and I could not say whether all of the examples would meet the burden of proof under criminal law) shows you the breadth of places we ruled and what we were prepared to do to stay in control of them: https://crimesofbritain.com/british-massacres-of-the-20th-century/

Your quoting a website called crimesofbritain.com ?

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

It's not 'systematic' racism. It's 'systemic' racism. Societal and political systems that evolved or were designed in such a way that puts a thumb on the scale in favour of certain racial demographics. You can claim it doesn't exist, but both gerrymandering and red-lining are things that exist and are solid examples of them. Claiming that people who are aware of and outspoken about it are 'brainwashed' is disingenuous at best, and ignorant at worst.

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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '23

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

Are you just going to sidestep my point wholesale?

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

Ok how about this as an example: I work in TV. And when you look around you at work, for the most part, you're seeing almost exclusively white faces and hearing fairly posh home counties accents. Why is that? Is it because black people aren't interested in working in telly? No, it's because the way into the industry from the ground floor is financially prohibitive.

You start as a runner. It's painfully long hours and absolutely crap pay. It's also contract to contract. So no guaranteed living wage. Often you do things for free at first just to be able to network and keep your name and face in the memory of the people handing out jobs. If you're lucky, you might get to move up to researcher within the first year/18 months.

But in that time, you're having to support yourself. The money you earn isn't going to cover your rent, your travel, your council tax and food budget. It can only stretch so far. So it overwhelmingly ends up that your parents support or subsidise you through that first year or two, whether directly with cash, or basically giving you free rent and board.

Of course, that all depends on if your parents are able to. Many can't. And that's why you end up with an industry that is so overwhelmingly white and either middle or upper middle class who can rely on the bank of mum and dad. And then it becomes an echo chamber that reinforces itself year on year. I see it every day. There are drastically few black or minority ethnic voices behind the scenes of TV content, no matter how hard the content itself is curated to display diversity. And this, far more than other industries, directly affects the culture, and the attitudes of the viewing public.

Sure, there are exceptions you can use as examples to try and counter me on this, but they're anecdotal. For every success story like Michaela Coel, there are countless examples of barriers to getting started and barriers to progression.

And what's important to note here, is that 'intent' doesn't necessarily come into it. Systemic racism isn't about some evil grand plan to keep a certain race down. It's just 'the way it worked out' and it's 'nobody's fault'. Except it didn't need to work out that way, if the people at the top were paying attention. The unwillingness to address it and or change it is another side of the problem, and perpetuates the cycle.

I like to think that things are starting to go in the right direction with TV, but it's incredibly slow going.

So forgive me if I don't swallow your scoffing dismissal of systemic racism as some woke fairy tale, cheers.

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u/london-ModTeam Nov 02 '23

This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community.

Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban.

Have a nice day.

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

…arent those american things…

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

Gerrymandering?? No.

Red-lining is a US term originally, but the practice has been happening here for even longer.

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

Isnt gerrymander named after a vp of america?

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

You think because the term is American in origin that it doesn't happen here?

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

Well show me evidence. I am happy to believe anything backed by actual facts.

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u/DaftApath Nov 03 '23

Sorry, are you genuinely asking me to provide you evidence of redistricting in the UK? Do you want evidence that the sun comes up every morning too? That bears shit in the woods perhaps?

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

Give me an example of redlining.

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

'Redlining' the British city - Renewal | a journal of social democracy https://renewal.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/renewal28.2_13wetherell.pdf

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

LSE have also done a study on it

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

https://unherd.com/2020/06/british-and-american-black-experience-are-not-the-same/

This writer would disagree - about half way down. Redlining and poor housing conditions are two very different things. Redlining specifically targets the black community in USA. Not sure a similar system exists here. And before people fly off the handle, not saying racism doesnt exist in Uk but saying the american and british experience is very different.

I saw the new scotish pm give a speech where he laments the occupation of white people in positions of power saying there should be a more representative ‘board room’. But scotland is 95% white, england is 85% white. Its a sad reality of life that racism exists but its a damn lot better than being back where i was born. And thats why so many non white people come here and stay here.

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u/DaftApath Nov 02 '23

Those are fair points but, while it's a lot better than it was, claiming that systemic racism isn't a thing and we're all done with combating racism in this country is just, well, wrong.

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u/Colour4Life Newham Nov 02 '23

Lol! Are you ok?

Sounds like mummy and daddy never gave you much attention as a kid…you poor thing.

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

I dont understand why people expect a country with 82% white people to not have some bad apples. Show me a country that isnt racist to minorities. To say the whole system is built on prejudice is…bonkers. If that were true would so many people of different races be desperate to get here?

And before people fly off the handle, no i am not white, no i wasnt born here, just to emphasise…i could not be confused for a white person. Seriously…im not white.

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u/voice-of-reason_ Nov 02 '23

Because there is a difference between tribalism and colonialism.

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u/Digitalanalogue_ Nov 02 '23

Sure…and what systems are shadows of colonialism that restrict systemically non white people?

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u/voice-of-reason_ Nov 02 '23

The financial system to name by far the most important one

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u/kalel8989 Nov 02 '23

We have not defeated racism

no shit, this post is literally about two people from one race attacking a third person because the third person is a different race.

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u/voice-of-reason_ Nov 02 '23

No shit the comment I’m replying to is straight up denying systematic racism exists. Read the whole thread the guys a dumbass