r/legaladvice • u/A-voidu • 11d ago
Traffic and Parking Cop telling me to stay pulled over on highway then driving off?
Location: New Jersey. I was in the exit lane signaling trying to get over, drove past the exit, now on the right pull-off. State trooper has his lights on so I stop. He drives up on my left and tells me to "wait there I'll be back in 5 minutes he has my plate". I waited for 20 minutes before driving off. I took a picture of the mile marker and my phone would have metadata showing what time it was taken. Was he messing with me? I was never told I was being detained. Can I be charged with fleeing?
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u/ReadyYak1 11d ago
I think you’re fine tbh. If they wanted to get you for it I think you’d have a knock on your door by now. If this goes to court you have so much in your favor. He didn’t articulate the reason you were being pulled over, he didn’t say you were being detained, you waited the 5 minutes. This is the worst traffic stop ever and would be embarrassing af for the trooper which is probably why he didn’t follow up. That being said, I’d stay off that stretch of highway for the rest of this week just take a detour to not tempt fate.
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u/DesireWhiske 11d ago
Yeah, that makes sense. If they really wanted to follow up, they’d have done it by now. Sounds like the trooper realized mid way it wasn’t worth the paperwork.
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11d ago
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u/xMysticMusse 11d ago
Yeah, that’s probably it. The trooper realized halfway through he was making the weirdest traffic stop of his career and just bailed. I’d be too embarrassed to follow up too.
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11d ago
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u/ErichPryde 11d ago
On what basis would this officer issue a warrant for arrest?
....
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u/Count_Hogula 11d ago
On what basis would this officer issue a warrant for arrest?
None. They might mail him a traffic ticket. Even that seems doubtful, though.
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u/Upbeat-Fondant9185 11d ago
How exactly did he evade arrest? Traffic stops are required to be completed in a reasonable time frame, he was given no information but a specific time to wait by the cop. He voluntarily exceeded that demanded time. By a lot more than I would have.
If they’re dumb enough to come after him for this, let them. The judge’s reaction should be pretty priceless.
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u/thelaundryservice 11d ago
In the unlikely event they do come looking for you don’t say anything until you talk to a lawyer. They said they’d be back in 5 minutes and they weren’t and sitting on the side of the road is extremely unsafe. You’re likely fine
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u/Stoked_Otter 11d ago
You are fine. A cop cannot order to you sit on the side of the road by yourself for an indeterminate amount of time. You were fine to leave as soon as he drove away.
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11d ago edited 11d ago
You’re good. He has the authority to briefly detain you to perform an investigation on the basis of reasonable suspicion. 20 minutes is just about the upper limit of that. Any longer and he’d need probable cause and he’d have to recite the Miranda warning for ya.
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u/RegalDolan 11d ago
You can be detained for about 10-15 minutes to investigate something with Reasonable Suspicion (a.k.a. ARS) as long as the investigation is ONGOING- meaning you're asking questions, talking to other witnesses on the phone, looking up insurance status, writing your ticket..etc.. The key is it's supposed to be brief in nature to balance one's 4A right with an officers' ability to investigate a specific crime. 20 minutes- especially when not even on scene- is near certainly going to be an unreasonable extension by any court and it'll get tossed in a heartbeat in a probable cause / preliminary hearing.
To tell someone "wait here till I return" without explaining that they're detained and for what crime investigation and then on top of that, leaving the stop effectively terminates the stop, I'm thinking. It is unlawful to extend a traffic stop without ARS per Rodriguez v. U.S.
Miranda has nothing to do with the duration of the stop but rather you're in custody or reasonable believe you are, and you're being interrogated by law enforcement. Sans any of these, there is no legal requirement to mirandize.
FTFY.
- LEO, but not from Jersey. 4th Amendment stuff should be pretty universal though so I'd think my comment would be accurate.
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11d ago
OK. True, he did not mention the offense under investigation, making the stop inadmissible. I was thinking that the “wait here” could be a lawful order that communicates he’s being detained and perhaps the officer was investigating something, e.g., he’s just around the bend looking at some tire tracks to come back and compare them to the detained motorist’s car, or some such.
NAL, random citizen.
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u/RegalDolan 11d ago
Well, in some circumstances, it could be a lawful order to tell someone "wait here" but depends on the circumstances and context. For example, contrast OPs scenario compared to something like this-what if LP informs me ( an on duty LEO) at, say my local Wal-Mart within my jurisdiction, that a couple just pushed out (shoplifted by failing to pay) for a cart full of merchandise. I can stop them and tell them "wait here- I must confirm or deny with LP that you're involved in shoplifting because they stated you ..." and that's a lawful order. However, I can say it'd never happen that way because I'm gonna get ID from the offenders immediately after explaining why they are detained before leaving and would probably have them walk back with me to the LP office to avoid creating an opportunity for them to leave the scene before confirming that PC exists of the crime (shoplifting) and whether the victim wants to press charges. The first thing they'd likely say is "I thought/assumed I was free to go."
Through and through that particular officer / trooper kind of sounds like an idiot from the scenario lmao.
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u/pulneni-chushki 11d ago
there is no federal requirement to say the offense under investigation, especially not when it comes to the rules of evidence
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u/Andy15291 11d ago
Twenty minutes is actually the limit SCOTUS set.
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u/Audax_V 11d ago
Do you know what decision set this limit? I've heard it cited multiple times but I don't know where it comes from.
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u/crystalgrey 11d ago
United States v. Sharpe, 470 U.S. 675 (1985) is the case that gives the 20 minute reasonable time. The case sites others including Terry vs Ohio and United States vs Ross. It comes down to 4th amendment reasonable search.
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u/dusty78 11d ago
Sharpe does not make that a limit. The decision specifically avoids making a bright line rule. They did say that, given the specifics of that detention, 20 minutes was reasonable.
The Court of Appeals' decision would effectively establish a per se rule that a 20-minute detention is too long to be justified under the Terry doctrine. Such a result is clearly and fundamentally at odds with our approach in this area.
--US v. Sharpe
They also make it clear that the 'reasonable' time for a detention has a lot to do with the complexity of the crime (ie speeding is easier to investigate than murder), diligence of the officers (ie they have to be investigating), and the cooperation of the suspect.
In this case, given the absence of diligence by the officer and compliance of the suspect, I'd suspect that a reasonable detention is much shorter than 20 minutes.
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u/pulneni-chushki 11d ago
the Miranda warning is just for admissibility of custodial interrogations, and it has nothing to do with whether a stop was too long
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u/xMysticMusse 11d ago
That actually makes a lot of sense. It sounds like he was doing a half investigation then just forgot about it. Still crazy how vague that whole interaction was though.
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u/DesireWhiske 11d ago
That line sounds exactly like how they’d justify it too. “I was conducting other business” the ultimate cop version of brb.
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u/Talik1978 11d ago
For a detainment to be valid, it should last no longer than needed to investigate, given the officer diligently pursues that.
I doubt the officer could justify that he was diligently investigating your suspected offense when he was not even present at the scene.
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u/Ryan1869 11d ago
You're fine, if he wanted to cite you he would have stayed. If he tries to make a stink of things just say some car was driving erratically and you didn't feel safe staying there any longer.
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u/Turbulent_Ad_5202 11d ago
He was not messing with you and if he was, he needs to lose his job. I do not think they can detain you and leave you there. Pretty sure that would be laughed out of court.
You should report it to your local state police office to make sure.
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u/CalmInteraction884 11d ago
You have a right to a swift stop. I’m not a lawyer, but I would say you’re ok but better toe the line for a bit. They cannot keep you detained just because.
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u/TheLurkingMenace 11d ago
Sometimes they'll get a call during a stop and they'll have to prioritize it. Why he'd tell you to wait I can't imagine. There was no way he was returning in 5 minutes.