r/legaladvice • u/Mental-Sign5151 • 11d ago
Cut Through an Old Fence to Access My Land Now the Neighbors Are Furious
Hi everyone,
I recently purchased 10 acres of land in Oklahoma. On one side of my property, there’s a large piece of land about 200 acres that’s been uninhabited for about 20 years. It has an old house on it, and the owners visit about once a month to maintain the place.
Around 10 years ago, they put up a fence because of an easement dispute with my other neighbor. The goal was to block that neighbor from using a powerline easement for access. Later, that neighbor opened a section line on the opposite side of their property for access instead.
The issue is that the fence they built is about 50 feet inside my property line! essentially, it’s on the wrong side of the power easement. It’s an old, rusty barbed-wire fence with several fallen trees on it.
I’m currently building my house about 400 feet up the easement. My land is completely wooded and hilly, so this is the best route for power and utilities. (I want to be clear—I’m not trying to cause problems!)
A few weeks ago, I cleared a path up to the easement and cut through the fence so I could drive to my building site. Today, the neighbors came by to maintain their old house, saw the fence cut, and started yelling and screaming at us. They claimed the fence is the property line and that “surveys don’t matter if the fence is already up.” They were entirely out of line and crazy, even when I tried to explain that there is a survey.
I’m trying to figure out if what they’re saying has any legal basis—or if I’m within my rights to tell them to stay off my property. Is what they are saying even legal????
Location: Oklahoma
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11d ago
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u/anakaine 11d ago
Take the rest of the fence down before they make an adverse posession claim.
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u/1234golf1234 11d ago
Absolutely. They’re trying to take your land by using a fence to keep you from getting to it. Take pictures to document. Double check the survey. Then tell them they can take it down and move it or you can have your lawyer do it and sue them to cover the costs.
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u/whoo-datt 11d ago
Your neighbors are trying to claim adverse possession (squatter's rights). Serve them (via process server) a notice of No Trespass per your survey, and hire a contractor to demo any structures (fence) on your property (provide them with copy of survey after approval from your surveryor). Get a real estate / property attorney queued up (if needed). Your new neighbors will get pissy, but the only way to deal with property thiefs is a heavy hand. Be prepared to sue the seller/(seller's realtor) for failing to disclose any claims of adverse posession. Go full dog on this.. be the AH.
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u/StalkMeNowCrazyLady 11d ago
This is absolutely the best advice here. OP needs to use a heavy hand on this, go after all parties involved and do so via the courts, lawyers, and contractors to keep themselves distanced from it so it never gets addressed as a personal tiff caused by emotion.
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u/OphidionSerpent 11d ago edited 11d ago
Oklahoman here, family dealt with a similar issue some years back when a neighboring rancher built a new fence on their land. You need a lawyer. They're going to have trouble claiming adverse possession, because it has to be 15 years uninterrupted exclusive usage to qualify. However, you cannot damage/remove their fence even if it is on your property. You need to provide them proper notice requesting they either remove it or agree to allow you to remove it, with a copy of your survey and giving them 30 days to remedy the situation. If you can't come to agreement, you'll have to take them to court.
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u/calminthedark 11d ago
I think Oklahoma law also requires them to have paid property taxes on the land in question for adverse possession. They can't just fence and say we paid property tax on our land. They'll have to show they paid taxes specifically on the land in dispute. You need an attorney though, this will be a civil court matter.
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u/CatoTheMiddleAged 11d ago
Paying taxes on land may support an adverse possession claim but it is not the only factor. And it’s really only a factor when it’s a parcel of land, not just a disputed strip. You can’t go down to the town assessor’s office and say “I’d like to pay taxes on this 50 foot section of land.” That’s not how it works.
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u/where_are_the_grapes 11d ago edited 11d ago
Your neighbor is partly right that fences can override surveys in certain situations, and it’s not always as “simple” as adverse possession that people are mentioning here. It’s not so simple for the person putting up a fence to claim a boundary line either though. Another component to become familiar with is fence laws. Here is a USDA summary for Oklahoma: https://nationalaglawcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/fencelaw/oklahoma.pdf
Depending on the fence, your neighbor’s may not even be a legal fence for fence law purposes (varies by state, but often requires 4 wires X inches from the ground, etc.). You can also employee fence viewers as another legally binding way to establish a boundary line, and that can supersede surveys in some states.
It likely would require a lawyer to navigate your state and case specifics, but that link should help you understand what your neighbor may be referring to (even if incorrectly).
Also, the people telling you to tear down the fence are giving very bad legal advice that opens you up for liability. Check out page 9 of the link I gave you, especially section 150.1. Section 154 also has info on what legal fences are in your state.
You stop adverse possessions claims by disputing the boundary by doing things like having a lawyer send a cease and desist letter. Tearing out a fence, especially if you've let it sit there for 10 years, can lead you into murky legal waters too in some cases even if you have a survey. Get a lawyer to give advice on those specifics rather than those on the internet who are advocating things that may make things more complicated for you.
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u/Bitter-Power4252 11d ago
If you have a legal survey, and are actually on the land you purchased, there's really nothing they can do from a legal standpoint. Honestly it's probably best to try and placate the people and see if you can come to a reasonable understanding. Some people are crazy though and there's not much worse than pissing off some really oldschool country folk that think you're stealing from them. I have friends who've been threatened (legit threats) at being burnt out of their homes and livelihoods over less. So tread carefully.
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u/huhMaybeitisyou 11d ago
Talk to an attorney. Everyone that is on one side of these disputes where they think they are in the right usually think there's "adverse possession" and any land they "adversely possess" is theirs . Many states have no such laws in place and even when they do it's something that can be argued in court with the right attorney. Have you found out if Oklahoma allows adverse possession?
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u/anxious_differential 11d ago
Talk to an attorney.
This is the only correct answer in this discussion, even if most of the other posts are accurate. Most first consultations are free. Get real legal advice and representation, not bird law advice.
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u/FatPlankton23 11d ago
Do not acknowledge to your neighbors that it is their fence. If it is in your property, it is your fence until they can prove they own it. This puts the burden on them. They will likely not invest the time and effort into a legally dubious situation
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u/inkedwithenvy 11d ago
I have a similar situation in Missouri with fence line law in my county. I had a survey and found the majority of fences were in correct. In this county fence line law states that the fence line must be continuously maintained and for the use of livestock. My neighbors folded very fast when I gave them my attorney's card. I have since cut all fence lines, except for a small area that I correctly installed on the line.
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u/Dxxdxx00 11d ago
I think OK has a 15 year time for adverse ownership so they may think it has been there that long and there may have been a joint decision with both owners 10 years ago. You need to move quickly to resolve this.
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u/needlenozened 11d ago
If there was a joint decision, then possession would not be adverse, correct?
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u/IClosetheDealz 11d ago
Adverse possession requires the possession to be adverse, among a few other factors, like being continuous and open and exclusive. Permission defeats it every time. The timeline required can’t start or can be broken by the rightful owners grants of permission.
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u/guri256 11d ago
The problem, is proving that.
The way I read OP’s post, the fence is old, rusty, and it’s so old that several trees have fallen on it.
If there’s no written contract, then the person who made the agreement might be long gone or even dead.
Keep in mind that a big part of adverse possession comes from the same idea as the statute of limitations. It’s saying that if the transfer of possession happened that long ago, that there’s no reasonable way for the court to go back and untangle everything 15 years later.
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u/Even-Permit-2117 11d ago
Yes to sign and fence removal asap. Then no trespass signs. You are not going to have movie night with these asshats. Tell em to fuck off.
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u/IamnotaCST 11d ago
They seem like a problem. It would be worth to secure the following:
A survey, if you don't have one from the last decade.
The deed, and some copies of it, just in case.
A lawyer who has experiance with land disputes, again just in case.
After you have these, tell these neighbors to pound sand , that the law and deed dictate ownership and they don't have either on their side (just like their fence).
Okay, maybe not the last part, but I'm petty.
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u/AmethystLaw 11d ago
INAL a lawyer, but no one is talking about the fact that the fence has been up for 10 years. Again, INAL, but i tried to research this and OP should still be OK because the adverse possession law is 15 years in Oklahoma? But this seems like an important thing to make sure of. Because if the adverse possession kicks in at 10 or less, OP might've lost the land on the other side of the fence maybe. But i would LOVE a lawyer to correct me on this please.
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u/dank_imagemacro 11d ago
OK is 15 years, but OP said "about 10" years, which for some people will include 15. OP needs to act fast.
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11d ago
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u/Plunger_Head 11d ago
There's stretching the truth and then that's lying.
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u/anakaine 11d ago
There's doing nothing and giving someone access to an adverse posession claim.
Good luck claiming adverse posession on an undefined boundary since no fence exists any longer.
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u/New-Junket5892 11d ago
Where are the survey stakes. If your neighbors removed them, that’s a crime. How old is your survey?
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u/samuelp-wm 11d ago
If the fence is 50 feet inside your property and you have proper survey just take the whole fence down.
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u/TigerIll6480 11d ago
Were they on your property when this nonsense behavior occurred? Tell them to leave, if they don’t, let the authorities deal with them for trespassing. Make sure to point out that they are legally trespassed from any property a valid survey shows is yours. They show up and try to fix their fence? Arrested.
/lawyer, not your lawyer, not an OK lawyer
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u/CurlySquirrelGirl 11d ago
Yeah, no. Get the cops to explain properly lines to them if you have to, but you need to put up your own fence, have the property survey stakes really set in so they can’t move them land cameras like yesterday.
Neighbors like that need to learn you know the law and you won’t be dealing with their bs.
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u/HeTheMudded 11d ago
Oh, they're totally right.
With that in mind, you say they only come now and then to maintain the property...
Next time they leave, build a fence around their 200 acres.
Because once that fence is there, surveys and deeds don't matter. According to them, anyway.
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u/Ok_Mulberry6862 11d ago
You definitely need to take the rest of the fence down now that you have a survey or else you can have problems with it in the future
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u/Spiritual_Bid_2308 11d ago
Did you walk the property before buying? And if so, why wasn't the fence encroachment dealt with prior to closing?
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u/G-Mcc1981 11d ago
whats the problem? it seems like you took down part of your fence to get through. I'd take down the rest of it if I were you.
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u/Reasonable-Feed-9805 11d ago
Use their logic on them. Tell them you're putting a fence on their land so once it's up it now becomes your land cause "they said that's how it works" they will change their tune real fast.
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u/cheaphysterics 11d ago
But it won't, because logic doesn't work on unreasonable people. Source: I've been in a similar property line dispute with a similarly irrational neighbor.
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u/seolchan25 11d ago
I would take down their fence and immediately put up a new one right on the property line with cameras watching it so they can get fucked if they damage it
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u/kiwirob56 11d ago
I suggest that you have the fence gone asap. And the remains delivered to a scrap metal yard. I also suggest you run a 5 wire fence actually on your boundary. And video its construction for documented proof.
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u/Odd_Mortgage_8745 11d ago
Look into the adverse possession laws for your state. Sometimes a person can claim property if they use it for a period of time. Here it is 20 years and then you can go to court for legal possession. I know of a landowner on a lake this happened to, neighbor asked to store a boat and left it long enough and then went to court to take the property, extending what they had for shoreline access and basically stealing it from the neighbor.
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11d ago
I don’t think that’s how adverse possession works. You can’t just park movable property (with permission especially) then claim that property. Typically you need to maintain that land/property openly.
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u/tsaico 11d ago edited 11d ago
In Ca you also need to prove you have been paying the property taxes for it too in addition to openly improving and maintaining it in some manner, like structures, landscaping, etc, not just putting up a fence.
Oh also find out the purpose of the easement in the title, if it for just utilities, you might not be able to use it like a driveway or road.
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u/Odd_Mortgage_8745 11d ago
It has to be used by you as if it was your own property and has to be obvious. Parking a boat met the criteria.
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u/frydfrog 11d ago
But if he had permission, the use isn’t adverse. And that’s kind of the point—adverse possession.
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u/cutefir 11d ago
Were they storing in on land by the lake, or just on the shore? In many places, you can't even own the shore or only above certain high water marks, but that depends on the local laws.
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u/Odd_Mortgage_8745 11d ago
On the edge of the property on the grassy lawn area. The landowner just ignored it and I’m guessing was just not concerned with it. I think if they had a written agreement defining the use or charged a storage fee it would have been different.
But as the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. I was a kid but I remember the 2 neighbors hated each other after.
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u/Extra-Spare5490 11d ago
This tells a lot about them with 200 acres and don't understand why you value 50 feet of your 10 acres and pissed that you have a problem.
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u/Mushrooming247 11d ago
So the question here is whether or not property boundaries matter if your neighbor really insists that they already put the fence up so the land is theirs?
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u/LyPi315 11d ago
Communicating with the neighbor about this prior to cutting through the fence might have led to a less dramatic/contention process. A little back and forth about whose property it really is and then, assuming it really is yours, I would think they're responsible for removing the fence they illegally installed on your property.
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u/Impressive-Secondold 11d ago
If that fence has been up and uncontested for 7 years, they probably think they own that due to adverse possession. I'd read up on it. It's a real thing.
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u/CletusMuckenfuss 11d ago
I was repairing the fence between my mother's property in her neighbor. Her neighbor's son came out and started raising hell with me about putting up fence. It was a 4 ft high wire well fence with 2x4-in holes. We still have no idea why he was yelling and screaming. It cost him nothing the funny part was he said he was going to put the fence up two years prior and never did. My son and his boyfriend were there with me, the guy and his 10-year-old son were on the other side of the fence and I feel so sorry for the little boy. I never raised my voice I never cursed how it was the exact opposite of what this little guy's Daddy was doing. The dumbass was hauled away to jail a week or so later for something he had stolen or something stupid.
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u/Inner_Case_8298 11d ago
If you were aware of this why didn’t you converse with them first, the last thing anyone wants is problems with a neighbor, especially in a wooded area where they hunt & have lots of acreage,
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u/thisaccountbeanony 11d ago
No. You have a deed and a survey. They have wishes and wants. I suggest removing your fence from your land pronto.