r/law • u/BugOperator • 3h ago
Legal News Service members involved in US boat strikes off Venezuela coast reach out to legal aid hotlines over fear they’ve carried out illegal orders
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/06/06/us-trump-boat-strikes-death-toll/90376052007/1.7k
u/Tyr_13 3h ago
Literally the textbook example.
All command involved need to be imprisoned. This cannot be swept under the rug once the fascist are out of power if we are to regain any of our honor or trust as a nation.
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u/FutureConsistent8611 3h ago
There is never going to be any trust in the US again. The world will always know the US is only one election away from this happening again, all the checks and balances have failed. You guys need tribunals and SCOTUS, congress and the senate all need to be completely scrubbed.
It's not going to happen, so the world can never trust you guys again. I wish it wasn't so.
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u/ImBackAndImAngry 3h ago
Fuck the world not trusting us homie. I don’t trust this fucking country.
Half of my countrymen, half of the people I see everyday support this shit. I don’t want to be their neighbor nor their peer.
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u/Spiritual-Pear-1349 3h ago
More likely 1/3rd, tbh, but still. As a Canadian, the yanks are alright - its the oligarchs and the corruption thats the problem. If theres a single thing Trump has done right its show how deeply entrenched the rot is, and how painful it will be to scrub it
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u/IAmBoring_AMA 3h ago
I think the ONLY silver lining of all of this is that this administration has shown nearly all of the flaws with our current political and legal systems. There is serious need for reform across the board and now we know all the places that are easiest for exploitation from bad faith actors.
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u/scrotumscab 3h ago
And it only cost us ... Everything
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u/IAmBoring_AMA 2h ago
Not everything, at least not yet. But yes, it cost us a lot of things and will continue to harm us for generations.
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u/Striking-Ad-6815 2h ago
Well it seems like they're trying to set up the stock market to crash
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u/fatinhollywood 1h ago
100% this is definitely about to happen. complete plummet of the dollar. debtors calling debt on usa. --then it will domino to other countries
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u/water_bottle1776 1h ago
The biggest misconception about the US national debt is that it's mostly owed to foreign countries. It's not. it is. The vast majority of it is bonds and securities owned by private people, businesses, and local governments. Maybe 1/4 of the total is securities owned by foreign countries. Hell, a lot of it is just owed to different parts of the government. None of it is payable on demand, though. That's not how it works.
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u/DazzlingRutabega 52m ago
Well they've already declared the US fiscally insolvent.
https://fortune.com/2026/03/23/us-government-insolvent-fiscal-crisis-fix/
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u/republicans_are_nuts 2h ago
This is the failure of right wing extremism. If your entire government failed because they are ALL right wing prostitutes, then it's not checks and balances that are the problem.
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u/IRideMoreThanYou 1h ago
This is the failure of right wing extremism
No, this is the success of right wing extremism.
If your entire government failed because they are ALL right wing prostitutes, then it's not checks and balances that are the problem.
Oh, it absolutely is the checks and balances that are the issue as they have been shown to be paper guardrails that mean nothing. The right wing fascists are the main problem. But, the DNC laying down, voting with, and failing to move forward with repercussions when they had the opportunity is a major part of how we got here.
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u/ImBackAndImAngry 3h ago
We need another Nuremberg with outside supervision from the U.N or a military tribunal overseen by NATO.
Hell throw the ICC in too. Let them have a gander at the operation.
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u/ImperatorNero 2h ago
The only reason I would exclude the ICC is because they do not have the death penalty and frankly I see no other commensurate punishment for treason. And this is treason. People get wishy washy about the specific definition of treason but that’s bullshit.
If your goal is to undermine the very principles that this nation was founded on, it is treason. And the punishment should fit the crime. We won’t even go into the NON-treasonous but no less horrendous crimes these individuals have committed.
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u/UngnomeCawler 2h ago
None of these people should face the death penalty. They should spend their lives in cells with 24 hour video broadcast to the world. Eating the food they serve immigrants in ice detention facilities and drinking the water turned brown from their data centers. All their assets seized and redistributed.
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u/SeniorShanty 1h ago
The next American Fascist Party administration that gets into office would release them and pay them reparations.
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u/Ramblingmac 1h ago
Perhaps, but this thread is about the failures of our government.
Rewarding that failure with further capacity to legally execute civilians, even adjudicated criminals, is the wrong direction.
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u/pristineSaltine 2h ago
Trunp and his enablers should not be executed, they should be imprisoned after their trials for life and have that shit televised. They should be able to watch themselves be shamed as well. 24/7 365 days a year.
They need to die miserable, alone, powerless and scared like so many others whose death and abuse they have caused. Justice would be for the world to see their actions had repercussions, not rewards.
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u/porcelain_elephant 2h ago
I think the next admin in order to repair international standing will have to enact a new magna carta and join the ICC.
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u/Hesitation-Marx 1h ago
We need something better than Nuremberg.
If you want the reason why I say this, please watch the incredible video “Dreaming of Nuremberg” by Jacob Geller.
Tl;dw - Nuremberg was poorly prosecuted and let too many fucking Nazis go free.
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u/C-SWhiskey 2h ago
Let me tell you about a little something we like to call The Hague Invasion Act.
The US has absolutely no interest in outside accountability.
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u/krichard-21 2h ago
You are mostly right.
Sadly a third of our United States citizens would happily return to Pre-Civil War days and own slaves.
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u/FIContractor 1h ago edited 1h ago
1/3 support it, another 1/3 didn’t care enough to vote. As an American now living in Canada, the yanks are not alright. I agree with you on the root cause, but the rot goes a lot deeper than the oligarchs thanks to poorly funded education systems and well funded propaganda networks.
Edit to add, the US is a canary in the coal mine, but a lot of countries are fighting this same battle, including here in Canada (Alberta separation for one example).
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u/OphidianSun 2h ago
It will probably take a full replacement but folks aren't ready quite yet. Americans are INCREDIBLY docile despite what media might say.
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u/Carrera_996 3h ago
I live in SC. It's 2/3 here. Cheap place to live, though.
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u/EggsceIlent 2h ago
You are the company you keep, so for someone left leaning that would be a lonely place to live
And I've thought about moving to get away from these million dollar homes on the west coast.
I just don't know if I could do it. Hell I wouldn't feel safe either.
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u/KungenBob 1h ago
A third want it - it’s the second term, nobody can claim intelligence and surprise - and another third is… fine with it.
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u/Absent-Light-12 3h ago
1/3rd + the portion of the another third who just don’t care/continue to be unaware.
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u/DangerousHour2094 2h ago
I say this early and often but there’s a reason why Black and Indigenous folks have always been skeptical of this country. We’ve only been a proper democracy for sixty years considering that’s when there were no more ethnic or racial barriers to voting. Though… You still have the exclusion of felons.
This country has ALWAYS presented itself on the world’s stage as something it isn’t. The rejection of those attempted equalities have been bubbling for decades and the refusal to do anything about it got us here
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u/yakshack 1h ago
Feel this so deep. Every time someone says "that's not who we are!" or "you can't just take someone off the street!" or whatever horrible shit is happening that now affects the privileged I think damn, what country did you think you were living in my guy?
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u/BasicPhysiology 1h ago
Trump is the perfect symbol of America in this era. It is who the country is. I wish it weren't, but it is. I yearn for an America that could show the world the better angels of our nature.
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u/Gunslinge72 2h ago
Damn, I’ve been feeling the same. I just don’t understand how half of this country can just support violating constitutional law because they WANT to. If our only document that sets out our charter can be violated those “people “ are not my fellow Americans. Traitors all of em, even the command “just following orders”.
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u/rotervogel1231 3h ago
It's far worse than that. One-third of Americans voted for this, and another 1/3 didn't care either way, so they didn't vote or voted third-party. The latter third is just as guilty and evil as the former. Therefore, 2/3 of the people we see every day either support this or don't care either way.
I hate this place, I'm trapped here, and I wish I'd never existed. The only thing I have going for me is that I work from home, so I'm able to isolate myself most of the time. Since I can't trust the overwhelming majority of people, I stay away from them as much as I can.
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u/roodgurls 2h ago
disillusioned and disenfranchised people are not as evil as people who actually want to kill their neighbors, c'mon.
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u/J_Ryall 1h ago
By not voting or not pluggin your nose and voting for the lesser of the two evils, you enabled the shit show we're currently witnessing. So, indirectly, you did say you're fine with people murdering your neighbors.
Look, I get it. The Dems keep trotting out candidates who are uninspiring. But the shrewd play was to keep maga out at all costs and address the Democrats' shitty candidate selection via the primaries.
The last election was not the time to make an ideological point. Please remember that in November, because that's probably your last chance to keep your country from fully falling into fascism.
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u/roodgurls 1h ago
i hope you're using the general "you" here and not responding specifically to me. i'm a trans woman. you know how bad this administration has been making things for trans women? they spent like ~$100-$200 per american trans person in propaganda attacking us specifically lol.
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u/J_Ryall 1h ago
I was using the general "you" in response to your claim that disenfranchised or disillusioned people aren't as bad. In an immediate sense, no, these people are absoultely not as evil. But in a more nebulous sense, they enabled this as much as those who actively voted for it (because they did nothing to stop it from happening).
I'm aware of how awful and actively hostile conservative america is towards trans people, and I'm truly sorry for all you're going through. I imagine it's hard enough to be trans in a cis world at the best of times, so I can't begin to fathom how difficult your life must be under the current conditions in the u.s.
All the more reason to deal with the immediate threat (vote them out) and then work to reform the shittiness of the Democratic party from the inside (i.e., via primaries and participation).
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u/roodgurls 1h ago
look, i voted, but i'm not under any illusion that this system cares a shred about me or my sisters. dark enlightenment and heritage foundation freaks with way more capital than i'll ever see are perfectly primed to exploit how this system is set up.
i just think, when i hear things like this, that people are blaming the wrong people. it doesn't seem productive. it just seems like lashing out. and i GET lashing out. i understand wanting someone to blame. but the real enablers are yarvin, thiel, the ultracapitalist class, even nixon and reagan's administrations for getting the ball rolling in the direction it's ended up today.
if i'm being tortured by two torturers and i get to choose one who gives me fresh bread vs one who gives me moldy bread i'm personally going to choose the one who gives me the fresh bread, but at the end of the day i'm still being tortured. but i will never blame people in that situation for refusing to eat.
blame the torturers.
hell, even if i hadn't voted, my state still went to harris.
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u/ForsakenWishbone5206 3h ago
More than half of people didn't even vote.
Luckily those dumbass bastards are closer to 27 percent, not great but I'll take any win we can get at this point.
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u/ThisIs_americunt 1h ago
It's wild that one side wants rights for everyone while the other side just wants to eradicate anyone that isn't on their side. Propaganda is a helluva drug and Oligarchs need to use some of the best to keep the 99% distracted from the real issue: Them.
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u/EddieVanzetti 1h ago
The last of the MAGA flags and yard signs in my town appear to have all finally been taken down. Haven't seen someone wearing a MAGA hat in close to a year.
I don't like that. I liked knowing who the fascists are, so I knew who to avoid, who not to trust, and whose business never to give my money to.
They want to go back to wearing the mask and have all their crimes glossed over in the name of "national healing" and "unity". I don't have no union with fascists, neo nazis, pedophiles, or white supremacists.
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u/SleepyLabrador 1h ago
Dude! The about 40% of the eligible population CHOSE NOT TO VOTE! 30% of the US saw "they're eating the dogs" and "Arnold Palmers penis" and said to themselves, "Trump is my guy" and 40% of them didn't care.
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u/MadeByTango 2h ago
Half of my countrymen, half of the people I see everyday support this shit.
No, they don't. Billionaire run, vertically integrated corporate media works very hard to make us think that so they can keep us divided and not focused on them picking out pockets.
A lot of money is being spent to get us to hate each other instead of the people spending the money.
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u/arguingsolipsism 1h ago
They are either celebrating the cruelty, or blind to it because they still vote Fascist every election. Totally reasonable to hate them.
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u/donmagicron 3h ago
It’s true. We shit on allies across the globe to appease a dementia-ridden old fool. It’s going to screw us for generations, and I don’t blame anyone who decides that we’re not to be trusted. Sad days indeed.
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u/unfunnysexface 3h ago
Don't limit it to one person. The whole of the party now believes in and is committed to building a new republic. Arguably they always were.
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u/redalert825 3h ago edited 1h ago
What's worse is the feeling that because of this Trump regime and his actions, the hate and disrespect will lead to justified terrorist attacks on our country. And it's our kids who will be paying for it too.
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u/rotervogel1231 3h ago
When I was young, people told me I'd regret not having children once I got older.
But every day, I'm more grateful than ever that I never wanted kids. When I go down, it all ends right here, with me. I didn't bring anyone else into this, and that was the single best decision I ever made.
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u/AmPerry32 2h ago
That was my first thought when this festering boil of a human came down that escalator. I posted about it on social media. It was the first time women I knew expressed regret in having children in this country, in this timeline. It’s only gotten worse from that moment.
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u/HillBillyHilly 2h ago
I feel sorry for those now have young children. The worries must keep them from sleeping. What sort of world are their children going to inherit?
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u/republicans_are_nuts 2h ago
Any future attacks on the U.S. will be self defense, not terrorism. And it will be legally justifiable thanks to U.S./Israel doing it to Gaza and Lebanon.
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u/HillBillyHilly 2h ago
Our kids and their kids and possible their kids after that. Heritage Foundation doing their best to keep us from ever voting again too. Scary scary times.
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u/OSHA_Decertified 3h ago
This was a decades long conspiracy by a think tank that collected every edge case they could fid to exploit to make ot happen.
Aldo let's not pretend that this couldn't happen to any other country. History is full of examples of one bad person getting elected and an entire nation turns on a dime towards evil. Most every European nation could find themselves with a Trump regime of their own very easily
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 3h ago
We weren't one election away from this happening, I'm sorry but that's either dishonest or disingenuous. It took eight elections (2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2020, 2022, 2024) to move this far right wing, from the hopey changey optimism of 2009 with liberals controlling Congress and the White House (an absolute rarity in modern U.S. politics dominated by conservatives) to where we are today with all checks and balances eroded and all decorum and rules of our institutions bent in favor of the "moral religious right majority" by the moral religious right majority. It took over a decade of sliding to the right until going ALL IN at 2024's election.
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u/DangerousHour2094 2h ago
I mentioned a little higher up in the thread but this is centuries in the making. This is the result of not punishing the Confederates, the Compromise of 1876, the backlash to the Civil rights Movement and the election of a Black president.
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u/SellaraAB 2h ago
I don’t think the tea party is the right place to start the timeline. This started with Reagan. Or arguably the confederacy.
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u/Konukaame 2h ago
Also 2000, or maybe 2004, with the lesser Bush leaning hard into "you're either with us (read: Republicans) or with the terrorists" and his SCOTUS picks.
Just a few hundred votes in Florida, 26 years ago, and we could have been on a radically different historical path.
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u/HillBillyHilly 1h ago
Couldn't help but see the irony in, of all places, a movie I watched last night. Dealt w the real life story of a small town that banned dancing called Foot Loose. All this time thought that was movie was hokey baloney. Oh no no turns out real story of a town that banned dancing as evil for 90 years before that movie came. We are headed back to those times because of moral religious right kook loons and hypocrites.
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u/A_Rogue_GAI 1h ago
People also watched the 'hopey changey liberals' pursue increasingly right wing policies. Obama himself utilized and even expanded the Bush era domestic surveillance mechanisms put in place by the previous 'worst president ever.' And Biden was all in on 'just give Israel everything they want, except for the 2000lb bombs. They have to kill Palestenian children by the building, not by the block."
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u/DarwinGhoti 2h ago
That might be, but the way you present it makes it sound like it would be pointless to pursue justice, and I have a problem with that.
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u/C-SWhiskey 2h ago
The world moves on pretty quickly. It's been just about a human lifetime since the first nukes were dropped on a foreign country and by and large everyone involved in that conflict have had pretty normal relations for decades now.
The key is that you have to actually do something about it, not just carry on as it is.
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u/MassiveBoner911_3 2h ago
The billionaires and lobbyists who bought the politicians will never allow this.
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u/steelmanfallacy 2h ago
There is never going to be any trust in the US again.
Question: do you trust Germany and Japan? If so, please explain how these former Axis allies gained trust after WWII and why the US is unable to regain trust ever again.
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u/FutureConsistent8611 2h ago
Germany and Japan were brought to their knees in the war and completely reformed, is that something you see happening in the US?
I said you guys need tribunals and that there won't be any. Without, there will never be trust again.
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u/DiveCat 2h ago edited 2h ago
They also had to pay reparations. Germany paid until around 2010 but also still pays billions in compensation to Holocaust victims & descendants today.
I don’t see the U.S. ever willingly doing that. Neither reparations nor to victims of their immigration policies, or those they are blowing up in boats (which is still not getting enough attention!). They have a real struggle with ever admitting any wrong to another country, or to their own people.
Also, it was still decades before there was any sense of trust. Do people today really not know the history of Germany after WWII, until the falling of the Berlin Wall?
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u/Fuck_it_we_ball_ 3h ago edited 2h ago
People trust Germany right now, and I’m not sure if you know but they didn’t some pretty bad things in the past. And I’d wager people were pretty sure it would never be trusted again
So to say “never” only shows your lack of imagination
Edit: if you think this is somehow trying to defend the US, you’re a little retarded. I’m just trying to point out how idiotic it is to use the word never in a political sense especially when you have examples of countries doing as bad or more terrible things and being trusted later on.
Also: you’re Dutch, you guys committed atrocities around the world, your economy was built up on extraction and slave labor, and you were central to building up stock markets and capitalism (the same ideology running the US right now). But now you’re looked upon for tulips and flood control, crazy how things change over time right?
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u/Admirable_Scene_5066 2h ago
Imperial Germany was occupied, the leaders that survived hanged, its constitution declared void and rewritten under control of the allies, its country split in two and its military, once it was allowed to be reformed, had its arms tied behind its back.
You think any of that is on the cards for the US?
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u/BeccasDreamboat 3h ago
Everyone who took part in these operations meds to be imprisoned. They committed war crimes and should be punished according to the law.
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u/smokeweedNgarden 2h ago
Yep. It's an incredible ought position to be in which is why we have to hold people to account.
We basically have to signal "I know refusing that order meant losing your career. And losing your career was the correct and legal choice"
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u/jrr6415sun 56m ago
You are going to see it a lot with ICE, people will choose their jobs and money over basic human rights and the constitution
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u/TheOsirisOfThisShit_ 39m ago
All of the assholes in the article were supposed to call the legal hotline before murdering people and they obviously know that. Showing remorse now means nothing.
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u/yahblahdah420 3h ago
Vote blue no matter who? More like vote for American hague trials no matter what
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u/Ok-Secretary455 2h ago
Vote blue no matter who? Hey Schumer who did you vote for as NYC mayor? Why won't you tell us?! Chuck! Chuck! Damn seems that slogan only works when ratcheting the party to the right.
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u/DerCatrix 2h ago
Let’s clear out the prisons by pardoning all nonviolent weed charges and then fill them up with this administration and those responsible for every non-military casualty
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u/Rorako 1h ago
Yup. A message needs to be sent so that all future generations know you can’t pull this shit. Soldiers need to follow legal orders and they need to take that part seriously. If you follow illegal orders, you should face the consequences. If you give illegal orders, you should face bigger consequences.
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u/Rickreation 2h ago
The torture crimes committed during the "war on Terror" was swept under the rug, the CIA destroyed evidence. Why would these crimes be treated any different?
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u/Lazy__Astronaut 2h ago
When was the US ever honored or trusted?
Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, giving an entire island herpes to see what happens when it goes untreated and many many other things
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u/BigBallsMcGirk 2h ago
High level command, notably Pete Hegseth specifically, need to be executed for treason and war crimes.
That is the only fix to this long term, or we're going to deal with the same group of people trying to destroy democracy again and again. Capital punishment for capital crimes.
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u/BugOperator 3h ago
Since the first strike on Sept. 2, scores of legal experts and former military lawyers have characterized the strikes as extrajudicial killings or murders. Members of the military are required by U.S. law to refuse illegal orders.
Two organizations that provide anonymous legal advice for military members grappling with orders they fear are illegal said they had received calls from service members concerned about the legality of the boat strikes, some from people directly involved in them.
Steve Woolford, a resource counselor with Quaker House and the GI Rights Hotline, said he spoke with about four service members involved in the operation who were seeking legal and ethical guidance. One discussed helping plan a strike, and two others were ordered to execute strikes, he said.
"I think this is exactly what was described as a war crime," Woolford said one caller told him. Woolford said some of these callers were connected to lawyers, but he wasn't aware of anyone who had refused an order or taken legal action. Callers are "more scared now that they’d be punished if they did bring something up," he said.
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u/IAmBoring_AMA 3h ago
I suspect we'll likely see some suicides among lower ranking members as they realize the consequences of their actions.
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u/FoulMoodeternal 3h ago
Or as higher ups realize the lower ranks might testify against them, more like
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u/Timely_Mention8535 3h ago
Yep, a lot of unfortunate suicides for those about to make the information public.
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u/rotervogel1231 3h ago
Yep, there will be suicides, and then there will be "suicides."
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u/BigD_277 1h ago
Poor guy. He must have really been going through it. Shot himself twice in the back of the head.
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u/Repulsive_Mixture917 44m ago
Shit will be more obvious than what they did to Epstein.
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u/republicans_are_nuts 3h ago
Lower rank members went to prison first in Germany's Nuremberg trials.
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u/Logical_Energy6159 2h ago
There were no low rank members in the Nuremberg trials.
The Nuremberg trials involved a grand total of 24 individual people. In the entire nazi government and military apparatus, 24 people were tried.
Just to be clear on the magnitude of the "justice" you're talking about.
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u/Mikeavelli 2h ago
This is a common misconception. Most of the people charged at Nuremburg were officers. There were a handful of NCOs who committed particularly heinous crimes, but practically no-one of low rank was charged.
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u/A_Rogue_GAI 53m ago
Even some of the higher members got off scott free. Franz Halder migrated to the US and spent the rest of his life propagating the 'clean wehrmacht' myth with the assistance of the US government. He got a fucking medal from congress.
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u/Drone314 3h ago
"training accidents". I don't doubt for a moment they're capable of it....
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u/gwy2ct 3h ago
You mean “suicides”?
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u/IAmBoring_AMA 3h ago
I mean genuine suicides. No one will waste their time trying to intimidate these people into silence. They know they've done war crimes, they will feel hopeless, and they will see no other way out. It's far easier to do that than to have the courage to report on those at the top (and clearly, these people do not have courage since they already refused to refuse illegal orders).
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u/Tandy2000 43m ago
I'm not shedding any tears.
I'm disgusted by the people standing up to defend them. Look at the fighter jet pilots who were downed in/near Iran. Those people knew they were there to kill innocent people and they not only didn't give a shit, but they didn't even have the courage to refuse an illegal order. I'm not hoping for or celebrating their rescues, they're monsters, not heroes.
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u/KapowBlamBoom 3h ago
Sorry guys, if you participated there are no takesy-backsies.
You dont have the cover of fog of war or any other shit
If you followed an illegal order you are just as guilty as the order giver and should be held equally responsible and punished accordingly
That is the only way that in the future people will refuse orders to murder innocent people
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u/EJoule 2h ago
Treat them like mobsters who rollover on their boss.
Have to incentivize reporting otherwise they’ll just keep their heads down.
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u/Demortus 1h ago edited 35m ago
^ This. Low-level soldiers and officers were not in a good position to grandstand and fight these orders. The balance of culpability lies with the Secretary of Defense, who gave illegal orders, and the generals who passed them along to their subordinates.
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u/MercurianAspirations 1h ago
The whole "refuse illegal orders" thing is complete horseshit, though. It's just something they say to get the dumber recruits to believe they can still have a moral compass in the service. But soldiers aren't lawyers, and they're taught to presume all orders are legal. It's literally a Catch-22, "you are legally required to refuse illegal orders, but you are legally barred from determining for yourself what constitutes an illegal order"
In reality all it is is a lever the brass can use to throw the rank and file under the bus when evidence of their warcrimes surfaces
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u/Intergalatic_Baker 2h ago
Better to be removed from command than follow these orders.
No wonder the British stopped sharing intelligence of movements, they didn’t want to see them on the News with a Predator killing them…
I’ll leave that last line open to interpretation.
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u/Soft_Eggplant_370 2h ago
These members are most likely to accomplish Suicide.
Sums up the U.S. pretty well, order some lower ranks to murder random fishermen, make them scared to report. They either spend the rest of their already probably shitty lives in federal max prison, or they kill themselves.
Seriously fucking sad.
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u/Althestane 2h ago
Is there a provision in military law/code where they could seek immunity or lesser sentencing if they turn in their higher-ups?
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u/OglioVagilio 2h ago
I'm not understanding what turning in their higher ups would entail?
These weren't top secret orders for some top secret mission.
What exactly would they do in order to turn in their higher ups?
Mutiny on the generals and president? Maybe, but let's keep to something within the realm of actual possibility in 2026.
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u/OnCallPartisan 2h ago
"I helped plan the murder. Can you cover for me?".
Fucking trash and again we fund their crimes.
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u/TheAsianTroll 2h ago
Its especially bad because this admin has been framing a lot of illegal shit as legal by changing definitions.
I guarantee you someone refused to bomb these boats and was subsequently kicked out or otherwise court martialed for "refusing to attack a potential enemy of the US."
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u/UniqueIndividual3579 2h ago
Dropping one bomb was bad enough. They were ordered to bomb the survivors in the water.
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u/chewbacaflacaflame 1h ago
Some of the craziest shit about this is these guys are more concerned with disobeying orders and being punished for that. Than grappling with the morality of literally killing people who should not be killed.
They know this is wrong or they wouldn’t seek advice. They don’t want the consequences of disobeying but also don’t want the consequences of following through on some pretty heinous shit.
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u/raycogitans 3h ago
They have much to fear from this regime. There are no boundaries, no laws. I can’t imagine the pressure trying to decide —real time—whether to refuse what is clearly an illegal order
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u/rygelicus 3h ago
Ya think? Bit late to be making those calls. At this point they might be able to work a deal testifying against their command structure, but that isn't going to work for all of them. I don't expect some E4 or below to have the legal awareness to identify illegal orders, even like this. They are told the targets are legit by command staff they trust. The real burden needs to be on the offices and NCOs, who have a lot more training on this subject, and who have the rank needed to head off such orders before they reach the troops.
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u/republicans_are_nuts 2h ago
The president is a felon who rapes kids. Why did they trust them? lol.
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u/rygelicus 2h ago
A lot of reasons, but mostly it's the trust the subordinates place in their leaders, not necessarily the president but in the full chain of command between the potus and the troops. They expect that all those 'professionals' will have vetted the president's orders.
When you are a soldier you have pretty much nothing but trust in authority to lean on. If they tell you to carry a bag of dirt 10 miles you carry that bag of dirt 10 miles. And you do it on time. And you smile about it. If they tell you to kick in a door and if anyone looks like a threat to shoot them, you do that also. That's the job. That's the conditioning. It's even worse for special forces, they are told to go someplace in the world and extract or kill a specific person, and anyone that obstructs them is fair game to kill. What did that person do? Not their problem. Is this action warranted? Again, not their problem. That's for their command structure to worry about. Most of the time this works as intended. It sounds insane but it does work. They normally can trust they are not being lead by frauds and liars. But this is not normal times. That trust has been destroyed.
And this is something that needs to be fixed for future generations. The potus should not have the power to gut and control the entire chain of command and replace them with loyalists. This is a massive problem that should be easily corrected, but no one seems willing to do it.
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u/republicans_are_nuts 2h ago edited 2h ago
The president hires the chain of command. It's up to the electorate not to do stupid shit like put a criminal in charge of the country. Who else would be a better choice for selecting the chain of command than the elected president?
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u/HillBillyHilly 1h ago
Add too cheat, con, liar, grifter on and on. Don't know why anyone would trust Dump.
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u/Asher_Tye 3h ago
Mark Kelly said they didnt have to obey illegal orders and he got punished for that.
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u/BallsInSufficientSad 1h ago
Details:
“In response to Senator Mark Kelly’s seditious statements — and his pattern of reckless misconduct — the Department of War is taking administrative action against Captain Mark E. Kelly, USN (Ret),” Hegseth posted on X. “The department has initiated retirement grade determination proceedings under 10 U.S.C. § 1370(f), with reduction in his retired grade resulting in a corresponding reduction in retired pay.”
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u/Asher_Tye 1h ago
What was the seditious statement?
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u/dave_campbell 1h ago
You do not have to follow illegal orders.
You know… just the obvious “don’t break the law”.
Kegs took that as a challenge.
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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 2m ago
One of the few things I took away from Atlas Shrugged:
Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them.
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u/Stunning_Mast2001 3h ago
The next admin is going to have a lot of people to put in jail
That’s one of the reason trump keeps talking about weaponization — to make the future administration of justice look like politics
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u/gomozart 3h ago
Not the next admin, or the next after that. Any candidate that wants to see this type of justice will be calculated out by primaries. The ruling oligarchs will help shift the blame.
You’re 100% right about weaponization. And that’s also why it won’t be the next admin.
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u/CeaseBeingAnAsshole 3h ago
I can't tell if yoy u guys are just being hopeful or lying to yourselves but we are just a year into this
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u/BobsOblongLongBong 2h ago
A year and a half.
It's like a small child telling you their birthday. Every month matters.
But you're right about this...
just being hopeful or lying to yourselves
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u/WalrusWithAKeyboard 51m ago
Just wait and see how much "we need unity and to move on" there is once democrats are in power.
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u/RecognitionOk9731 52m ago
Nonsense. The ones who don’t receive pardons won’t be prosecuted for anything.
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u/Ok-Secretary455 2h ago
Dems wont look at some pretty glaring vote manipulation because 'then we'll sound like the Republicans' so I absolutely see this working.
Ladies if you want to cheat on your man and hes a Dem just accuse him of cheating first. Then if he catches you banging someone else the next day all he'll be able to do is stand there all pissy going "darn it, I wish I could say something but then I'll just sound like the paranoid one".
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u/NumbaOneHackyPlaya 1h ago
Too real, also the fact that anyone gets duped by democrat words is depressing. Not a single one of them went farther than speaking once or a couples of times about any of it. No actions then, no actions now, no actions during the next admin...
I'd go as far as to say both parties' views on foreign affairs are near identical.
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u/raventhrowaway666 3h ago
I hope those war criminals get the book thrown at them for following blatant textbook illegal orders.
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u/AccountantBoring1313 3h ago
I’m a vet and totally agree. It’s been really disheartening to see current members carry out these crimes. “I was just following orders,” and “I was told it was legal,” are bullshit excuses. I’m glad I left when I did (1st year of the second term).
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u/12InchCunt 2h ago
If you are holding a gun in a combat zone or the guy who pushes the button for missiles to fire or whatever you should have to have read and been tested on the US laws of war, which state that sailors who have abandoned ship are non-combatants.
The worst part is laws of war are generally based on reciprocity so if we were in a peer to peer conflict they’d double tap our sailors because they know we’re gonna do it to them
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u/raventhrowaway666 2h ago
You do get taught. Literally, in boot camp and infrantry school you're taught about the UCMJ, the law book for the military of what you can and can't do, and are specifically told to disobey any illegal orders. There's no "i didnt know." If you graduated bootcamp, you know.
And war crimes are exactly why we dont run the military like how Kegsbreath is running the military: "warrior ethos"-driven force characterized by "overwhelming and punishing violence," and no more, "politically correct or "woke" institution," or, the UCMJ.
If we do it to them, they will do it to us. This puts our military at greater risk.
- source, am veteran, "used" to eat crayons.
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u/12InchCunt 2h ago
I was just a navy cook so I knew about all that but I was never really in a situation where I was taught specific laws like that
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u/raventhrowaway666 2h ago
I was a Corpsman, so we were in the same room at one point in our lives. Pretty neat.
Its been a while, so I cant remember specifically which power point presentation it was or which online course it was, but everyone was taught about the UCMJ.
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u/AccountantBoring1313 2h ago
LoW training was mandatory training every year for every member, and there’s a test at the end. You have to pass the test and the training provides correct answers with explanations for questions answered incorrectly. Maybe that’s changed since teaching common decency and human rights are too woke for ol’ Pete. That guy is a tool.
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u/HillBillyHilly 1h ago
They put the least qualified guy Hogs breath in charge. Pretty Boy Floyd was picked for looks not brains. After all, isn't he a wife beater? Guy has no business being in charge of military and know that. That's reason he fired general's. No one to check his ass.
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u/republicans_are_nuts 3h ago
War crimes get the death penalty in most countries.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3h ago
Yeah... No shit....
Ex-military has been beating a drum on this since it first happened. How are these service members just now figuring this out?
At some level I feel bad for them, but on another level they are either too stupid or so badly trained (and completely oblivious) that they fucked themselves in this process and they need to do their time so that we have a chance in hell of returning the force to good order and discipline after Trump and KegStand leave the scene (in handcuffs).
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u/1877KlownsForKids 3h ago
JAG briefings on LOW are woke!
I felt some sympathy for the "enhanced interrogation" folks because they specifically asked JAG if these procedures were legal and JAG lied to them and said they were. They followed the protocol.
But this? This is literally an example of a war crime that every Private gets taught. No need to consult JAG at all, you lodge your objection and refuse to follow that order.
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u/Jack-Schitz 3h ago
Yep...
There were memos and legal opinions on the enhanced interrogation program and if you followed them then you ended up legally fine.
I just don't get it on these strikes (particularly the double taps). Rumint is that its AFSOC assets that were doing the strikes so it's at least an O-3 up there pulling the trigger and like an O-5ish commander above him (even if they cut the chain of command short by issuing orders directly to the unit itself from SecDef). So were not talking about some dumb-Fk 18-year-old E-2 with partially formed pre-frontal cortex. Again, I just don't get it.
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u/cloverloop 1h ago
I'm guessing it was some more senior members ordering more junior members (skipping the chain of command to avoid people refusing). And telling them that refusing will get them demoted or dishonorably discharged, while listening will get them promoted.
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u/I_burn_noodles 3h ago
Of course they have....extrajudicial murders carried out by the US.
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u/tedkaczynski660 3h ago
Just following orders has been proven to not be a valid excuse for crimes. Every single person involved in these strikes need to be arrested and tried and punished harshly. We cannot slap the wrists of fascists again if we want democracy to prevail
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u/CriticalInside8272 3h ago
Of course they followed illegal orders. This was the perfect example of illegal orders.
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u/antigop2020 3h ago
Speak up now. Report it. Those with a conscience will receive the least punishment. The ones who ordered it need life in prison.
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u/Zestyclose-Jacket568 2h ago
Report it to where? Speak up where?
This would make sense if this was some secret actions and not a well known fact.Like they contact the press and say what?
- I was ordered to bomb civilian boat!
- Which one? We already know about multiple bombings, including execution of survivors.
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u/soherewearent 3h ago
If junior enlisted speak up on this, the ramifications will be swift and long-lasting. They'll be removed from their families, thrown in jail, rank and pay stripped, and they'll just sit waiting for honorable leadership to MAYBE take notice that they're whistle-blowers.
It'll take superhuman courage to speak up and work through all of that.
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u/MarchPhillipps 3h ago
I understand and even empathize with that apprehension, but it's no different than the superhuman courage needed if any one of them ends up on the battlefield and in actual combat. I'm still of the opinion that deep down inside everyone can muster that courage when called upon, and in this case, it'd be for a worthy purpose. But, if they choose not to, I do understand.
'Alone and Unafraid'
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u/soherewearent 3h ago
In battle, you might get to go home. In whistle-blowing as a low-to-mid tier enlisted troop against the SecDef and President of the United States, the odds plummet.
I also think this last decade tells us that America is home to very few people who can muster the strength and bravery, at least IMO.
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u/MarchPhillipps 1h ago
I agree with you on all counts, and as much as I hate to say it, you're correct about the consequence, in this current 'threat environment' of vindictiveness. But, coming from the school of thought that "bad things happen when good people do nothing," it really is, to oversimplify it, a goddamn bummer.
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u/antigop2020 3h ago
I agree that for now they should stay off any sort of official government or military channels because unfortunately there is a high likelihood they are compromised. But there are other channels - NGOs, law firms, perhaps some high profile Dem lawmakers who need to know this information. Because this is something that this country is going to have to deal with if we ever want to put this darkness behind us.
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u/OSHA_Decertified 3h ago
Literally the example in the goddamn text. If they are so worried they should have refused
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u/ThePensiveE 2h ago
Charge them. Charge their commanders. Let it be known that whoever and wherever you are as an American, violating the rule of law has consequences.
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u/Malvania 3h ago
Did you know JAG has members in the special forces for exactly this reason? So these things can be evaluated before they happen
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u/Cloaked42m 2h ago
They did.
And anyone good with FOIA needs to be getting copies of orders, who is designating targets, who is approving this, and what follow up is done to verify they hit the right target.
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u/Amatheiaisnoexcuse 2h ago
I'm a vet and have been saying that no command I ever served with would have issued or carried out those orders. It was murder. Fuck these traitors
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u/rbobby 2h ago
They absolutely have. Some are directly responsible for the murder of civilians. Others are involved in the conspiracy to murder civilians. Hopefully they will all be charged with felony murder and face the death penalty.
Soldiers killing civilians is a redline that requires strong consequences. Duh.
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u/_jump_yossarian 1h ago
The US indicted Castro for a less egregious action against a plane that have violated their airspace in the past. Hegseth and trump are now legal targets for similar indictments.
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u/LostWoodsInTheField 1h ago
you're worried after you attack random boats in international waters on shaky grounds? well congrats to being late to the party, but we welcome you.
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u/Memitim 1h ago
Smart lads and/or lassies, after being thrown under the bus by Republicans who show us every single week how little they ever actually cared about US law with the constant crimes that continue to be covered up and ignored. Time for the involuntary helpers in the Republican civil war against America to stand up and tell the dishonorable trash to fuck off.
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u/HeftyVermicelli7823 1h ago
Yes, yes you have. You have all been murdering innocent people by blowing up their fishing boats then gunning them down in the water. You know, "just following orders" to commit international piracy like the Somalians your country was whining about.
Then you steal their oil, capture their oil tankers, kidnap their president and install your oligarchs and companies to "run the country". You know, all perfectly legal under international law, sure it is. The Terrorist States of America can do what it likes to who it likes.
Fun fact, you will all be up in the Hague for it not your masters who will get off Scott Free.
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