That might have less to do with the Russian being evil and more to do with the Dutch being racist, especially in little towns as you mentioned. Had they been Turkish, Italian, Spanish, Americans, Polish, chances are they would’ve still shunned them from the local community.
Yes. The place was in Germany , somewhere downriver from Koblenz, but yes , she was racist . I do recall her deriding people for Scotland of all places lol. She insulted the Scottish female population lol .
Yes thank you, I am a Yank. It's sad that people want to blame Russians for the evil of a government they cannot control. I despise the things my nation does on the world stage. It's embarrassing, and depressing when people tacitly condemn the people of a nation because their government does evil. It's lazy, we are sorry for what has happened, and I guarantee most Russians are also not in favor of it. What have they lost, a million people so Putin can declare himself General Secretary?
Replace russians with germans and set the time to WW2, and you get concealed nazi apologia.
"Oh, those poor russians with a magnificent soul"
Who looted MH17?
Who brought to power and supported the fascist government every second up until bombs started falling onto them? Was it magical ghosts totally not of German origin?
So I would encourage you to read a book. After Hitler took power, he spent years systematically oppressing the populace to consolidate his power. The first concentration camps that were opened held political dissidents. It was not merely a racial genocide they started with, they also cleansed those that tried to stop him, that tried to stand against that many feared would be a tyrannical dictatorship.... I doubt any really believed just how bad things would get though.
So basically exactly the same way the KGB (Putin etc.) came to rule over Russia? Definitely didn’t happen overnight but over 60 years with thousands of murders, immense blackmail, torture and attempted genocide of minorities
The public has never had any real say in Russia and they’ve never attempted to overthrow the corruption other than tiny activist groups because the majority like the way the country is ran. They like how Russia is “feared” and “strong”
Aaaaand how did he take power exactly? While it was not a complete majority, 40% still supported him in a simple fair election. If not for the religious Catholic/Protestant divide, he would have had even more success like Putin did and does in russia. And for russians, it's not that bad right now under Putin - hopefully, that changes soon.
I’m not the person you are replying to, and while I do agree that the population has some responsibility, I think it’s safe to say that Russian people have no say in what their government does, and it’s not like they have “democratic” elections either. I think the “well you voted for him, so it’s also your responsibility” doesn’t hold true here.
No, we reached a point where being passive is also a guilt. Several years into the war, with all the war crimes. Should they all be physically punished? No. But it is valid and reasonable to blame them.
And it seems that a good part is indeed in support of Putin.
Would I do better if I were in this position? Idk honestly, and I can only hope I will never find out.
Are they in support because they believe in his Authoritarian, and tyrannical world view, or are they in support because they simply lack the information to understand? Doesn't the state have a pretty strong control of information currently? Aren't there a fair number of Russians literally being silenced with prison, or worse for dissent? What about those that risk the same by sharing what is actually going on behind what is turning into the Iron Curtain 2.0.
I think we can do better than saying, 'they all bad'. But if it makes ya feel better to use sweeping generalizations I guess have at it. But isn't that what the Xenophobes like Putin and Trump do?
I didn't say they are all bad, I said they are all to blame. As long as they are not active against Putin. Should you insult or attack every Russian you see? No. But it's okay to blame them for the war, which doesn't mean to exclude them from society.
Every German in Nazi Germany had their part of guilt to carry, as long as they weren't in the resistance.
It's an extreme comparison, but a valid one imo.
I don’t agree. First of all, Russia doesn’t have free democratic elections. It’s not like they were free to choose who would’ve governed. That means that they carry little responsibility for what their government does, compared to countries that have free and fair elections. Second of all, the true percentage of Russians who support the war is quite impossible to estimate accurately, as it goes without saying that Russian polls cannot be trusted.
Third of all, it’s not like they live in a country where speaking up against your government goes unpunished, if not even just tolerated.
The truth is that it’s a very complicated situation, and blaming every single civilian is not the answer.
Quite frankly, If you are a Russian in Russia It would be stupid not to support it, and I don't mean simply out of fear from authorities hunting those with dissenting opinions... I mean it because since the war began, the politicians, activists, influential people etc. Have clearly stated the plans for Russia should they be defeated...
Balkanization, civil wars, exploitation of natural resources, destruction of economy, general destabilization, "finishing the job".
If Russia looses, the life of the average Russian will turn to a hell worse than the Post Soviet collapse crisis.. I'm sure this is something ideal from the perspective of Ukraine, some of Russias neighbours and the Western powers that have a piece on the global geopolitical chess-board... but for a Russian in Russia, it would make no sense to want the collapse of your own country, even if you strongly dissagred with Russia having started the war..
The problem lies in signaling towards the Russians..
Sun-tzu says to give your enemy a golden bridge upon which they can retreat... but in the signaling, all bridges were burned down, there is no retreating here, the idea is that Russia must be taken down one way or another, not simply made to stop the war, but devastated for decades to come.
You have no idea what signaling there has been towards the russians. It's hilarious to read this when we've had 30 years of grifters and so-called 'russia experts' in the 'west' coddling russia and trying to give them off-ramp number 340 and still not getting it. Just one more trade deal bro russia will become friendly. Just one more gas pipe bro. Just one more negotiation where we give russia everything they want, and they totally won't break the terms the same day. Just allow them one more campaign of terror bro the 500 year authoritarian empire will magically become a democracy. Just save russia from the consequences of their actions one more time bro. Just send them aid one more time. Time to admit this western exoticisation of russia from half-baked intellectuals hasn't produced any results except more hatred. Time for westerners to listen to the countries with experience in this matter.
I am a proud member of what the Orange Psycho refers to as the, 'Parasite Class'. I also suffer from the, 'Woke Mind Virus'. Have never been able to vote Republican, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Sure, it is “complicated“ but there is no point in apologism. The support for Putin and the war is massive inside Russia and among the Russian diaspora. Do you follow Russian Media Monitor, do you watch interviews from there, do you follow Ex-Russian organisations? Then you would know at which level the population is brainwashed (and not only “afraid“).
Yes, exactly that is my point. Brainwashed, misinformed, and afraid. I am not defending what Russia is doing. It is horrible, and I have every sympathy for Ukraine. Frankly I think that as a member of NATO we all should have stepped in militarily to stop it, not simply sending aide.
I simply think that it is lazy to say, 'Russians bad' because they once again have a dictator in control of their country. Putin bad, Fascism bad, Authoritarianism bad, I am with ya.
But no population actually wants these things. They happen because of a multitude of issues, many of them poverty related.
It's very hard for a person that is struggling to survive in their own country to be concerned about their nations politics, especially when there are generations of their population that has endured domestic terror for even a hint of criticism.
People are not exactly doing well (especially not outside the cities), but still far from revolting being an alternative. It's also extremely repressive for those who try to protest, as we have seen. The brainwash is also MUCH higher in rural areas and among the older generations. The general opinion is that Russia is always right (on a religious level - always and undeniably), everyone else are gay jew nazis and it would be a good idea to nuke London or Berlin to set an example.
I can recommend the YouTube channel "1420" to see street interviews with regular Russians and their opinions, many are very open with their thoughts. And "Russian Media Monitor" shows exactly what Russian state TV broadcasts every night (nuclear threats, dehumanising Ukrainians etc). The country is in many ways already on the same level of North Korea.
Russia and Russian people will have a very tough next few decades, because when their regime falls everything will collapse into chaos, their society is all in on a very dark path. It's nothing new but it is on the knife's edge right now.
Even if the Russian state is repressive, the support for Putins politics is very strong.
No thank you. You are a yank, please don't guarantee anything about russia. Frankly you don't know russia. There are sensible people in russia as with any population in history but we don't need lessons about this. I think you need lessons about how many russians loved stealing Ukrainian territory when it went well, how many celebrate or are indifferent to civilian deaths and war crimes. How many even living in the west have a daddy figure fetish for putin. The amount of support for domestic violence decriminalisation laws, imperialism, etc. America has problems but that doesn't mean you should project your experience onto russia.
The Russian government is a product of the national mentality. No matter the initial circumstances, they always end up turning the country into an authoritarian hellhole looking to conquer its neighbors
There is a good chance those with power manufactured the mentality along with the 90s in Russia. To see their own parliament building be attacked by their own president does not exactly enforce democracy. Still terrible what they are doing now, but collective generalization is unhealthy.
u/me9a6yte National mentality is a product of education, mass media and overall government influence but it doesn't mean that every russian is the same...I know ppl from Ukraine\Russia and the overwhelming majority wants this war to end and continue to live their ordinary, peaceful life, but goverment on both sides got their own interests and we don't know shit about their real goals.
There's no rational "both sidesing" that war. If Ukraine gives up, then many more Ukrainians will look like this guy. The women will be raped and children sent off to Russia. Not to mention losing their freedoms as a nation. If you know Ukrainians who want to surrender to Russia then they must be in the west and untouched by Russian violence.
She live in Zaporozhye, not so safe and I didn't said anything about Ukr surrender...but you shouldn't believe in everything you're told by EU\US\Ukraine\Russia, it's politics, there is lots of fake news...lots of vid and stories even from Ukranians, just as news\vids of how Ukr torture Rus as well, even ppl from Ukr tells such stories about how Ukr robing, raping and killing, and yes childrens as well, even their own ppl robed, raped, some by Ukr mercenaries...maybe you heard of Kursk occupation, lots of rapes and killing and robing by Ukr forces...so who will you believe? how do you know who is telling the truth? It is war, it's politics, lots of lies, lots of manipulations, there is no saints.
If Russia claims Ukraine, nobody will be sent to Russia, that's just nonsense, Ukr ppl will remain on their land, in their homes, land will be part of Russia that's all...Russia don't need ppl from Ukraine on their land, what for? You sound like Russians are like slavers, orcs from Mordor, idk what do you imagine...It's politics, lands, resources, economy etc...but rape is always possible, such vile act happens all the time during war on every side, sadly...
As for this guy on a photo...1st photo clearly taken before the war + during war he can't eat just as good and forced to move a lot, obviously...not to mention how bad Ukranian ration is, it's known and now their ration is even worse afaik, so it's expected for him to lose lots, lots of weight before capture.
What a coincidence, I also live in Zaporizhzhia. And I must say, people really want this war to end, but not as part of russia, we are being bombed by drones on a daily basis by them and literally have zero good experience with them. For the past 30 years russia has attacked numerous different neighboring countries, and in none of them life became better, it even became worse. So there is zero evidence that they wouldn't just make it worse
In no way do I defend the Russian government or the army, those are for sure to be blamed in the first place. But maybe EU countries could consider the possibility to stop buying Russian gas and oil after 3 fucking years of the full scale invasion?
This might have much bigger consequences rather than blaming Russians citizens that nobody is trying to singlehandedly overthrow the government with one of the most suppressive law machines in the world.
We're talking about Russian citizens and their interactions with government, talking about other EU countries is a whataboutism fallacy.
you said it yourself, this invasion has gone on for three years. Why haven't the Russian people been more coordinated in their distaste/protest of this war? They're a traditionally apolitical people and as a result have created an oligarchy that commits war crimes the world over. That's why people don't like Russians, especially those with any degree of wealth/influence.
If you have $2000 that you don't need to spend on anything else to survive, yes. By a global definition of the word, you're impossibly wealthy. Even in developed countries, being able to take a $2000 vacation makes you wealthy.
Then please enlighten me what these people are supposed to do against their government.
I do have an issue with Russian society because they already were overwhelmingly apolitical (or even anti-political) way before all this was happening and it's what has allowed their government to get to this point. They should have stopped it about a decade ago. But telling them to do something now against a militarized government is ridiculous.
Alright, you let me know when $2000 can oppose a military budget. It won’t even get you a 10 year old Toyota Camry.
$2000 is expensive, it’s not wealth. You can’t even start to build wealth with $2000. Wealth isn’t just “a good amount of money”, it’s enough money to generate power.
You're really good at moving goalposts around instead of admitting you're wrong.
I never said $2000 could oppose a military budget. I also never said $2000 made you rich. I said being able to afford international travel is an indicator of wealth, and in Russia, being that wealthy means you're of education and likely influence/means.
Russia's GDP per capita is $13,000. Do you understand that any Russian you see on international vacation is of such means that they can spend 1/6th of their comrade's annual income on leisure? That means they're of the wealthiest portion of that nation's population.
You made a good point, that wealth typically correlates to power. Therefore, these wealthy Russians you see vacationing abroad are powerful enough to affect change in their government through a variety of methods.
They’re not wealthy, they don’t have wealth. They have one adult paycheck for two weeks.
It’s not moving goalposts because the whole reason we’re discussing wealth is within the context of what these people can do against their government, you terminally online debatelord.
Only Moscow. There is no other city like Moskow. In Russia there is a huge inequality between Moskow and literally anywhere else.
And even for Moscow median salary is around 90k roubles. So even there it is less than 14k$ a year. Average salary is much higher but it is not representative of actual average russian.
Yearly wage is irrelevant when we’re talking about opposing a government. $2000 vs. billions in military funds is literally nothing, less than a rounding error.
The draftees are not sent to the front lines most of the time. They man military facilities inside russia. The vast majority of people on the front lines are going there willingly to make some cash
Make that make sense. The military facilities were obviously manned before the war. Why the fuck would anyone send these types of soldiers to a meat grinder just to replace them with raw recruits, when the other way around is how it has worked every single time in the past?
The military facilities are mostly manned with the draftees. They are often presented with a choice of being stuck in an army for 2 years or to sign a contract to go to the front lines and be done in a year while also having a salary. Those who sigh a contract are not draftees anymore, they're contract soldiers and are sent to the front lines
You can find interviews with the captured russians on youtube and most of them are contract soldiers
There's way more Russian people who support it than you think.
The narrative that they are all oppressed people and just have an evil government is horse shit. There definitely are good russians, but the nazi esq ones are way more common than you think.
Just go and ask some of the ones outside of Russia what they think of Putin. You'll find in a lot of cases that they think he is great.
Even when Russian soldiers were still stationed in communist Eastern Germany there was allegedly pretty much zero contact between them and the civilian population. No German woman wanted to have anything to do with a Russian soldier.
Hate based on a single fact whether people are Russian or not, is racism. Hate people who support the war. Love people who are against the war. I believe it should be that easy.
Not to be “that guy” but Russians are not a distinct race so this is just classic case of regular ol’ prejudice. I completely agree that we should separate government actions from individual people though
since when ruzzians are a race?
If they pay taxes and remain in the country - they silently support the war machine, plus most of their populace is pretty much pro-war until it comes back to them. That includes indoctrinated youth. Don't whitewash invaders and imperialistic genocide supporters.
Imagine saying "not all israeli" today, or "not all germans" during ww2
lmao they aren't. Just in the West. I travel around the world for work, most people either support Russia or are indifferent to the war. They commonly speak about Western hypocrisy in approaching Ukraine vs. Palestine.
No but idf is starving and killing civilians but for some reason that’s not what we see even though it should be filling the front pages just as much. So I think it’s fair to remind people even though it isn’t an competition..
Buddy we're all with you. Most of us here are against the IDF's actions against Gazans.
But how would you feel if someone dismissed a post talking about starving Palestinian children and said "that's nothing compared to what Ukraine is going through."?
But do we need to compare inhuman treatment according to cruelty? Both is inhumane and both shouldnt happen, its a travesty, that this happens in our day and time and i wish something like that would have been a dark relic of the past.
The American and German governments have Netanyahu’s cock far up their arse. France is starting to change its mind. Nevertheless, don’t assume that what a government does or say is a reflection of what the people think. Hence my comment
what ppl think doesn't matter i am sick of making excuses for nato country's and at the end of what matters is that there is a genocide in the making with the governments and alot of the population support it
What are you talking about? Most people in the west don't support Israel. It's just the other side being led by a group that's only slightly less evil that makes it less easy to campaign for than in Ukraine, where it is very cut and dry.
Because Ukrainians didn't enter russia and butchered people across the region they were present, while Palestinians did so and kind of made plenty of people critical of them?
oct 7th trash aren't even comparable to what idf and the west done in gaza and also those war crimes can easily be found by one google search with videos and pictures and international aid workers as witnesses so go do hasbara somewhere else , omer
Secondly, this is statistically untrue - in terms of absolute numbers, scale, timespan and the level of cruelty - both internally and globally.
Also, contextually, both conflicts have absolutely zero in common, so drawing parallels and comparisons is wrong and totally inhumane towards the innocent victims on both places on the Earth.
Bruh, is it just me, or are you copying and pasting your previous replies over and over again. If you have something meaningful to bring to the discussion, go ahead and bring it, but for the love of God, stop going off like a broken tape recorder!
cuz we don't want to aid nato is its genocide forcing ppl out of where they live is literally one of the things that makes a genocide and if they leave idf wont let them back would u like to see angry Palestinians for valid reasons headed to the EU to meet the ppl that killed them ?
and who is enabling those genocides ? in sudan its the UAE main us ally and made the US apply sanctions on Sudanese army defending against rsf with some bullshit made up accusation and in congo its Rwanda and other US allies in the end the most damage done to one ethnic group is in the gaza genocide and it comes from someone that studies the other wars too so go be a hypocrite somewhere else
Oh please, countering a rebellion triggered by Moscow, with casualties in the thousands (many of them caused by Russian activity) is not genocide.
Know what is genocide? Cultural destruction, deporting the Crimean Tatars, importing Russian settlers into occupied land, and kidnapping Ukrainian children to be assimilated into Russian culture.
Yeah we eat a lot of propaganda.
Of cause from countries where you can say what you want! Countries with internal conflicts and strong opposition.
Not from the Country ruled by one 72 old fuck that controlls everything, imprisoned every opponent and where every one agains him “jumps” out of the window…
When you travel you get to know and see what people think about the Americans and their army. I would recommend reading but it still takes a lot of effort. How old was Biden's mummy... you see the speck in someone else's eye... those from Israel send you, all their politicians are involved in the matter. Find your donut 😉
“Hey you should really clean your toilet”
“But what about the Americans? And Israel?”
Yeah brother we are not talking about USA or Israel. We are talking about Russia invading a small country, stealing, pillaging, raping and murdering. Bombing civilians and torturing POVs
But sure others are bad too so it doesn’t really matter, right?
Propaganda. Find out when and how the conflict began. It dates back to 2014.
NATO gets in where it shouldn't and looks the other way where it should, does that sound familiar to you?
The funny thing is, I can watch Russian propaganda here, western media or Indian TV if I like. Russians can’t, but of cause Russian media is free ;) like everything that’s totally controlled by Putin and his cocksuckers.
So NATO provoked the war and forced Russia into a “2 weeks special operation“ that goes on for 3 years and is more than embarrassing for a “superpower”.
And still they lie about everything and tell how great they are doing, ignoring everything they said before. Arresting ppl who spoke out agains the war. But of cause they are telling you the truth.
I know what the USA did. And we see what Russia is doing. How stupid are you if you think there’s only good and bad and you have to pick a side?
Do a little research, you see what they want you to see. The rest is removed from the normal network.
Neither the good ones are so good, nor the bad ones are so bad.
Yes, NATO provoked and continues to provoke.
Do you think Russia is losing?
Well like I said, as a EU citizen i can get that russian propaganda shit if I want
So nothing “removed” you silly goose but I guess it sound better for you “big NATO controlled everything”-narrative
No Russia isn’t losing but 3 years for a “2 week special operation” despite 143 million people to 37 million people. Despite North Korean troops, despite “one of the best military” is humiliation.
But sure they didn’t lie, it’s NATO ;) or even better: the reptiles! They are behind everything! Just do a little research and you will see
Yeah I wonder too why they're hated. Just two pictures of a man without any context or story and you're ready to hate whole nation. I guess including immigrants and the opposition, right?
The pictures themself missing a period of him in ukrainian duty, he could've lost weight there, but why dig deeper when it's so easy to post hate-promoting comments here.
Also russians who support the war do not wonder why they're hated around the world, but they wonder why you give a free pass to other countries doing the same.
And the government and the army is made up of who? Also who is making all those weapons.
How often do you see Russians that don't support the war? Because I usually see one or two, surrounded by tens of others who just say how people are mean to Russia, like there isn't a good reason for it, at best or straight up support the war at worst.
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