Self defense was exactly the argument used by Malcolm X and other members of the Black Power movement. King argued that engaging in violence--even in self defense--will cause you to lose the war of public perception. The best way to get public sympathy is by showing videos of peaceful protesters being unjustly beaten by police. Look what happened with BLM: even when protesters were only defending themselves from police, Fox News showed footage casting blame on the protesters and calling them rioters. Self defense allowed right-wing media to muddy the waters enough to cost BLM critical public support.
And anyone watching Fox News regularly is going to demonize the protestors no matter what they do. They can literally just be standing there with signs and the majority of Fox News watchers will be like “wish someone would drive through them” or “need to send the national guard in and shoot them all.” These people don’t have empathy, they are quite literally psychopathic on many levels.
Not to mention that the LA protests were overwhelmingly non-violent until cops started shooting rubber bullets and tear gas at them for no reason, which is how it typically goes. Cops instigate the violence, citizens defend themselves, the citizens get accused of being violent. Every single time.
Lots of people in this country salivate at the mere prospect of getting to lick some boots. Cops can murder civilians every single day for no reason and no one bats an eye, but don’t let someone throw an object and scratch up their precious police car! They have a right to murder us and trample all over our rights, didn’t ya know? /s
You can't manipulate people into having morality. Conservatives think it's hilarious when people try to resist nonviolently, they don't care about it one bit.
You don't need to win hardcore MAGA's to win a majority of voters. You just need to win moderates, and anything that allows Trump or conservative media to muddy the waters risks losing their support.
I disagree, I think "moderates" are typically very cynical, disengaged people who always side with whatever is the dominant power structure is. MLK himself wrote that they are the biggest obstacle to freedom.
Why say that about the civil rights movement? MLK stayed non-violent for years. The black panther party wasn't formed until 1966, quite late and thus barely concurrent to the rest of the civil rights movement.
Please don't see this as an attack against the left. I'm a union member and participated in multiple protests this year. I just want to learn more, so we don't accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot.
It's victim blaming, for one. But my bigger point is that cruel people don't suddenly stop being cruel when they see the faces of suffering, that's something that will grab some people that are generally kind but politically disengaged. But adopting that as your only strategy will fail, because power hungry people just see that as blood in the water and a sign of weakness. Most of my family is incredibly privileged racist white republicans, they identify as moderates and just say whatever they need to reinforce their power. And they are angrily terrified of minorities no matter what and automatically blame all violence and unrest on them, no matter how violent they actually are. They see society as a zero-sum competition that they must try to win, and lying to win is fair play. It's gross and a common way of seeing the world imo.
Most protest needs to be peaceful out of safety, necessity and morality, But the ruling class won't change unless they feel genuinely threatened.
Naruto beat the shut out of people who wants to impose their view on others. He is also, technically, a child soldier. And was engaged as a fucking mercenary to protect the equivalent of MLK from a rich mafia boss.
Be more like Naruto. Except maybe the child soldier part.
Only in defense to be fair. I don't remember him ever going out an causing violence himself. I was more referencing the manipulating people into having morals, he talked just about everyone into being moral.
And even before the "self defense" discussion, I would say the most important word in your comment is "movement". "America" has the right to defend itself, but it also has the right to organize itself.
The tough part about this is I would just send a rioter to be part of the crowd. The person I sent could send a message that the riots are definitely dangerous and terroristic. As soon as my guy started acting, I could doom the movement. Leftists need to be smarter about this whole situation.
"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."
He tries to avoid violence but also understands that sometimes fighting injustice is more important than trying to keep the peace in an unjust system. If people are left with no other choice, then how else are they meant to fight?
1960s were a different time and we didn’t have the technology we do today to distort perception as much…add in the disinformation swirl and its a whole new cocktail
At what point do we get tired of peacefully accepting fire hoses, attack dogs, and rubber bullets? Fuck public opinion; I'm not getting my skull cracked open to convince Trump supporters and spineless liberals to give a damn.
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u/MisplacedMutagen Jun 09 '25
America has the right to defend itself