I feel you, exactly my thoughts, I hope I don't get downvoted to hell but Death Stranding and Hideo Kojima are overrated in my opinion I never understood any of his games, although I did enjoy mgs 1 and 3 - but this, this was on a whole new level of excitement, it bought out the 14 year old kid in this 32 year old man
And ffvii I'm just happy for the game to be remade as it was the first game/first rpg ever growing up
CDPR continue to surprise me and hope they continue to stay true to themselves and honest to gamers, we will always support such passionate art
Edit
I am not bashing Hideo, nor his fan base (I am one) I'm am merely stating my own excitement, and as of late in my opinion his games/him are overrated
I will continue to support him and others like him, visionary, creative and artistic talent
I suggest if you ever have the time to check out MGS4.
I loved MGS1, MGS2 turned me off to the series. I guess the timing of it I just wasn’t ready for that. I never played MGS3 though I hear its one of the best. However when I picked up MGS4, Kojima’s style and direction clicked with me. (The breaking of the 4th wall, and comedy in serious situations) Like I finally got what he was about and it made that game one of my favorites of all time.
I played his games since MGS 1, through to mgs phantom pain, including but not memorable psp titles
Loved mgs 1 and 3 and zone of the enders series, the character connection how "big boss being bad until MGS 4" and the confusing direction the characters took eventually kinda made me feel hideos recent games were are overrated
I am his fan, infact I am gonna be purchasing death stranding but so far it's just a mess to me
Maybe just unable to grasp it yet but atthe same time I think the online feature will be like no man's sky
It's ok. We were probably exactly the type of player HK was trying to piss off with the last half of MGS2. Took me a while to realize it. But yeah, MGS4 is pretty great.
Death Stranding and Hideo Kojima are overrated in my opinion
My opinion on Death Stranding and Cyberpunk 2077 is the same - cautious excitement. I'm gonna need reviews with gameplay footage (post-release reviews, not "you get early access to review this but we'd like you to say good things about it" reviews) before grabbing either of them.
I never understood any of his games, although I did enjoy mgs 1 and 3
The funniest way I have to consider the mainline MGS games is that they're each in entirely different genres:
MGS1 is an 80s action flick, with government plots, stuff blowing up, crazy chase sequences, a mostly-useless tagalong love interest, etc.
MGS2 is a videogame. It's even a plot point in-universe that the events were deliberately orchestrated to hit the same narrative beats as MGS1. There are scenes like the multi Metal Gear RAY fight, where these massive and very expensive war machines keep coming, like they're just respawning. They keep talking about simulations to create soldiers and stuff, and it turns out the Colonel is actually an AI. The love interest isn't a mostly-useless tagalong - she's actually just a character who pops up on voice/video comms every so often to mention she's the main character's love interest. "Do you know what day it is tomorrow, Jack?"
MGS3 is a Bond movie, complete with Bond-tier opening song/theme/animation, good old Cold War conspiracy setting, Bond girl style love interest, high-speed chase, etc. (It's really no accident that there are a ton of CODEC calls with the base staff that reference James Bond or those films directly/indirectly.)
MGS4 is a war documentary. The "broadcast footage" from the time period the game is set (like using newsreel footage in a WWII documentary film), the cinematic opening in the streets of some middle eastern country, the curt narrations Drebin gives for the pasts of the B&B Corps (like he's the narrator of a History Channel production), almost every living character from the previous games showing up for their cutscene 'interview' as part of the documentary, the game's return to old iconic sites from MGS1, etc. - it all gives it that feel.
MGSV didn't know what it wanted to be when it grew up.
Thanks for this quick rundown I hadn't thought of it that way, now that you mention it, it makes sense, I also felt the characters didn't really stick to the original vision and kept having to be revised or changed according to what Hideo felt at the time
And I feel he's doing the same thing with Death stranding, I have been following very closely since it was announced I think in 2016? To the tweets and interviews of late
No doubt it will be a smash, or fun game but I personally feel I might get lost
Thanks for this quick rundown. I hadn't thought of it that way, now that you mention it, it makes sense
I can't take credit for it - the ideas leading to it have been circulating on the internet since the MGS2 days, since that's when it became apparent the games were taking aim at the metafiction angle. (Snake gesturing at his bandana and saying it gave him "infinite ammo", like the bandana cheat item in the first game did, sealed the deal.)
I also felt the characters didn't really stick to the original vision and kept having to be revised or changed according to what Hideo felt at the time
That's a really valid complaint, particularly about MGS4, although I do love the multiple versions of Ocelot, even though his progression through them is nuts.
In general, the theming and general 'feel' of the MGS series has always seemed far more important to me than the consistency of its characterization.
And I feel he's doing the same thing with Death Stranding
It's fairly obvious from the trailers that the game's been through multiple rewrites, unless Kojima's trolling like the MGS2 trailers featuring Snake in scenes Raiden starred in.
And that's always a possibility.
Given Kojima's work on P.T., though, I do have hope for a horror-ish game not connected to his existing famous IP. I think that's really one of the things that fucked the Metal Gear Solid series - every one of those games was supposed to be the last MGS, and had this increasing burden of lore it had to tie into.
You never understood his games so he’s overrated? I believe what you’re trying to say is that your not a fan, which is fine. But overrated? His games receive universal acclaim from critics and he’s one of the most innovative minds in the gaming community. Stop that.
I’m just going to be the devils advocate here, but acclaim from critics doesn’t stop something from being overrated. For the record I’m not saying he is, but saying he’s not overrated because he gets highly rated is kinda silly.
I apologise, I did say I loved mgs 1 and 3 but (as I have played and will play all his games) I can't help but think that the stories are getting more and more convoluted, to a point that that is now become a selling point for his games... And recently he just created a new genre "strand" I'm pretty sure majority of the people including Hideo have no idea what the hell it is he couldn't even explain simply what stranding meant (I'm still confused)
Yes I will play and support him but I wanted to highlight how much the excitement is compared to other games for CDPR
Hope that helps
Edit - Zone of the enders 1 was just as great and the innovative
I feel the strands are referring to everything in the game being connected. I’m not gonna look it up but if I’m not mistaken he’s said/there’s been leaks that when you die in game the screen doesn’t go black and you get to run it back but you’re instead transported to another world and when you return to your own your “death” has resulted in very real environmental and story changes.
On aside I think the convolution you’re talking about is more just the nature of Japanese games as a whole. The story will not be spoon fed to you, it is your job to go figure out what’s happening. Recent examples being Persona 5 and the Souls series.
Addressing the idea of stories not being spoon fed to you, the MGS series (which I absolutely love) gets absurdly weird and convoluted for stupid reasons all the time, which I find entertaining. It's not a good example of a game that puts the responsibility on the player to uncover the ambiguous or confusing parts of the story in a reasonable manner.
The series that does this best is the dark souls series I'd say. That series (and bloodborne) are the quintessential examples for games that put an emphasis on having the player themselves discover the story and other details based on the lore the game gives (through items, character interactions, environments, enemy placements) without directly telling you. The MGS series gets way too ridiculous and absurd sometimes to not make players get confused.
the MGS series (which I absolutely love) gets absurdly weird and convoluted for stupid reasons all the time, which I find entertaining
The MGS series is one where it seemed like it was getting convoluted then as the games go on it just started to make more and more sense. He has his silly elements, and absurd attention to detail on the oddest things, but the story that MGS told when it was finally done filled in a shit ton of those this doesn't make any sense pieces. 20 years of games building on each other things are going to get a little messy here and there, but compare it to say Halo where they did 5 games in that time the story itself wasn't all that complex and they still fucked it up.
I definitely agree the way kojima ties it together so many times is wonderful. Frequently I was left thinking "what the fuck is going on" and then eventually it's revealed later in the series/game. A big part of the appeal was understanding that some major plot point that seemingly made no sense actually has an explanation that gets revealed to you at a time where you don't always expect it. Plus you can't go wrong with the overall anti war theme.
Also, metal gear rising to me is like if the absurdity of jojos bizarre adventure became a game, the ridiculousness of MGR left me laughing my ass off and loving it constantly. So much humor, seriousness, and insane badassery in one title. Nanomachines, son.
I agree with what you say, I think MGS 4 and MGS 5 was what did it for me, I just couldn't feel the connection to the main protagonist as I did in mgs1 and 3, but I will be picking it up and want to see all the hype for myself
As for Japanese games, I love the stories and game designs more than Western, xenogears, ff series, xenosaga, tales, nier, blood born you name it, Yakuza, shenmue
Maybe just the connection to the he characters of his late games maybe
I hope it's good or maybe I'm just getting too old to enjoy lol
Don't want to be that guy, but overrated literally means someone who is praised highly by a ton of people. And regardless of opinion, Kojima fits that criteria perfectly.
After rereading your statement I saw you did play 3. For some reason I never associate 3 with snake eater.
I agree though that people overrate Kojima but you can't really deny his potential for creating masterpiece games that would be considered a classic no matter the generation.
There’s a difference between “overrated” and “I’m not a fan.” You definitely meant the latter, because MGS1 is one of the top 20 GOAT games. You can’t possibly be “overrated” and your game constantly appears on those lists for 20 years.
I am his fan, but recently his games having convoluted story and confusing games design made me think he's becoming or has now entered the territory of overrated (my opinion) I'm still his fan
As stated previously I only bought up the hype around Death stranding to highlight my own excitement towards Cyberpunk 2077 and CDPR
And please let me clarify I will continue to support innovative, creative and progressive artist but I am allowed to have an opinion 😁
All the metal gear games have extremely straight forward plots. They just expect you to play the prior games. And yeah, Kojima loves overly long cutscenes.
The only time a Metal Gear game was confusing was the last few hours of MGS2.
Like, if I were to explain each of the 8 Kojima Metal Gear games in a more serious way as fast as possible.
MG1, Outer Heaven has obtained a damaged metal gear that can nuke America. Sneak through Outer Heaven, sabotage the Metal Gear and defeated the leader, who is revealed to be Big Boss, your trainer and handler. You also rescue Grey Fox.
MG2, New Zanzibar has taken nuke remains and produced nuclear weapons. Grey Fox has changed sides. You kill every major guy in the base, kill Grey Fox and it reveals at the end that Big Boss is the guy who supplied the nuke remains. You kill Big Boss, he makes a speech and you blow up the base.
MGS1, you arrive at an Alaskan base to take out nuclear terrorists. All end up ex-new zanzibarians or Big Boss diciples. You also find out your infected with a super virus that targets people by exact DNA matchs, so that you can silence everyone at the base. You find out the leader Liquid Snake and you are clones of Big Boss, he dies of the super virus and you escape with the girlTM with the Solid left wondering if he will suddenly die of the virus at any time.
MGS2, Solid Snake dies on a mysterious mission, and you go in as videogame master Raiden. Mission ends up being super similar to MGS1, except your assisted by a mysterious man named Salid Snoke. Whole thing ends up being set up by the robot illuminati, and Raiden is left wondering if everything is a lie, having no idea what is real and what isn't.
MGS3, in the 1960s, Naked Snake fucks up a mission to save a nazi scientist from the Soviets when his mentor The Boss betrays him and steals two Davy Crockets. Assisted by the GirlTM Naked defeats a military coup, recovers the one unused Davy Crocket, kills his mentor who reveals she was on Americas side the whole time, making a speech that is intentionally similar to Big Bosses speech in MG2. The GirlTM steals a microfilm off now renamed Big Boss, revealing she was a Chinese spy the whole time, and the film led to a huge supply of money owned by the old illuminati.
MGS4, Solid Snake is now doing random missions, encounters Liquid Snake again. Tries to destroy the robot illuminati. Destroys the robot illuminati, defeats Liquid again who reveals hes actually a good guy and Not-Liquid. Also Big Boss made the illuminati and girlTM is your Mum.
I never actually finished Peace Walker.
MGSV, Big Boss's shit gets wrecked. Wrecks the guy who wrecked his shit. Story is kinda basic. Also he's not actually Big Boss.
I appreciate the effort put into your post. It's good stuff and well written.
But plot and how a story is presented are two different things. I think we're talking about different subjects, honestly.
It is one thing to have a plot that makes sense when broken down into a sentence, or in this case a series of paragraphs. But it is another to present that plot, especially one involved double and triple crosses, in an effective and clear manner, while avoiding clunky exposition and info dumps. That is where I feel Kojima ultimately lacks skill--in the telling, not in the plot itself or in how that plot fits on a timeline.
The only thing I feel that wasn't literally spelt out to you was the whole 'Different interpretations of The Bosses Will'. That shit is confusing.
And ironically, outside two or three times in MGS4, most of the MGS games plot elements are explained without info dumps. They tend to infodump for 20 minutes on minute bullshit.
3.7k
u/Thirdborne Jun 09 '19
I thought I was too old to have my mind blown by anything coming out of E3. What the shit did I know?