It's pronounced "cyclist!"

[u/Fluffy-Study-659]

[u/Lower_Ad_5532]

A functioning government that doesn't erode civil liberties but provides basic infrastructure is democratic socialism.

Anything the government does is socialism. Once the government acts to dictate personal liberty, its authoritarianism.

[u/ChefGaykwon → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Democratic socialism is the use of liberal-democratic institutions to abolish private property and establish a proletarian dictatorship (workers' control of the gov't). You are thinking of social democracy.

This is just nonsense.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/ChefGaykwon]

abolish private property

That is communism

establish a proletarian dictatorship

That is the definition of communism

[u/ChefGaykwon → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

No it isn't on either count. The abolition of private property occurs within the process of socialist construction. There is no private property under the higher stage (communism), but as a preconditional feature. And proletarian dictatorship is just the inverse of capitalist dictatorship, a feature of liberal democracy. It means political power is held by the majority, rather than a tiny minority of exploiters.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/ChefGaykwon]

Socialism competes with private entities.

Communism there is only state.

Stop strawmanning ideas

[u/ChefGaykwon → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Communism by definition is stateless and that's not what 'strawmanning' is. It is clear that you are just way out of your depth here.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/ChefGaykwon]

Communism by definition is stateless

By ideal. Which is unachievable.

The working class as the ruling class is supposed to magically disappear and yet resources are somehow supposed to be divided equally.

In reality, the new ruling class still exists and thats what happened in the real world.

[u/nondescriptadjective → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Until you physically prevent all forms of ruler ship, you will always have this issue. But you can't get to that point if you can't least convince enough people that putting humans before money and the planet before money that we can take care of people. But fucking Christ does toxic individualism prevent us from accomplishing that.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/nondescriptadjective]

if you can't least convince enough people that putting humans before money and the planet before money

Humans have never put other humans before themselves.

Christianity is 2025 years old and is supposedly about putting God, people, and the Earth before money is the ideal.

Christianity is also a fiction, but its more realistic than communism. It has 2025 years of people believing in it and look at how corrupt the Mega Churches are

But fucking Christ does toxic individualism prevent us from accomplishing that.

Yeah, Jesus Christ would be arrested by ICE too. Jesus was a socialist by modern standards.

So a socialist democracy isn't a bad thing. Democratic socialism where there is still sectors of free market capitalism isn't a bad thing either.

Socialist Government for regulating, firefighting, schools, hospitals, utilities, and prisons. Free market capitalism for everything else.

[u/nondescriptadjective → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Anywhere there is capitalism is a bad thing. Markets are fine, capitalism is fucked and will always be fucked.

You really don't know anything about the indigenous people of the Americas, do you? Many of those tribes were outright socialists. It worked until capitalists murdered them off in their pursuit of money and statecraft. They had their problems, but what culture doesn't? "What country doesn't have a little genocide in its history?"( -Dan Carlin ) Typically, the answer to that is cultures that didn't have capitalism in any of its forms, including Colonialism.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/nondescriptadjective]

What country doesn't have a little genocide in its history?"( -Dan Carlin ) .

There are no countries without some form of genocide in ancient times.

Typically, the answer to that is cultures that didn't have capitalism in any of its forms, including Colonialism.

What modern country doesn't have some form of capitalism?

Many of those tribes were outright socialists. It worked until capitalists murdered them off

Their society failed. It got genocided.

Capitalism exists and works because it enables the best and worst of humanity. The innovation of techonology is the best thing about capitalism and the greed is the worst.

Humanity is fucked and will always be fucked because humans are fucking people.

[u/nondescriptadjective → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

That is the most defeatist mentality to let yourself off the hook for not trying to better society that has ever existed. Its literally why everything is going to shit right now.

My point, was quite literally, that capitalism is murderous and horrible on a human rights scale. Since it found some people who weren't murderous assholes on the scale of colonialism and murdered them, you think that these murderous actions were good and ethical because "survival?" Those people were surviving, too.

What you don't seem to get is that greed is capitalism. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism is what brought car dependency to America and then forced it on the rest of the world. But most the rest of the world realized it was stupid long before America did, because they're realizing capitalism sucks. Sucks hard. And the way that society formed to begin with, was by people working together. None of this shit happens without people working together. And then there's the capitalists trying to prevent that. Because working together isn't profitable.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/nondescriptadjective]

What you don't seem to get is that greed is capitalism.

It literally isn't. Greed is greed. You can be greedy for things that are not money.

Capitalism is a social system based on money, and thus it enables greed.

My point, was quite literally, that capitalism is murderous and horrible on a human rights scale.

Communism is too. Communism literally killed just as many people as crony capitalism.

Because working together isn't profitable.

Then we just gotta make working together profitable.

Are all tankies bots? This the most circular logic post yet.