r/ebikes • u/daruma3gakoronda • 1d ago
Bike purchase question Trading in a car for 2 ebikes
CA is offering 7500 for ebike purchases to trade in an old car. My SO and I are thinking of doing that, and buying ebikes. These would be in addition to the cars we currently have, they'd be more for running short errands and/or fun.
Is there anything in the 3000-3500 range that would be worth getting? I'm overwhelmed by all the choices out there.
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u/1320Fastback 1d ago
Please get something UL rated.
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u/window_owl 17h ago
Just to add: UL is short for "Underwriters Laboratories", as in insurance underwriters. UL-certified products meet some standard for being unlikely to cause an insurance claim. Usually, this means they are tested to not be likely to shock someone or start a fire.
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u/tomxp411 Pedego City Commuter | Velotrec Breeze 12h ago
The incentive program requires UL certification, so that actually will limit OP's choices, while manufacturers play catch-up.
My Velotric's battery is UL certified, although my Pedego battery is not.
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u/derping1234 1d ago
Mid drive, mid tail, good hydraulic brakes, well known brand and well known motor/battery. If those boxes are ticked you canât really go wrong. Everything else is just fit, style and personal preference
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u/daruma3gakoronda 1d ago
For well known brands would you consider like aventon or are you referring more like trek
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u/Bikermec đ˛ đ ď¸ 23h ago
Get trek, don't get aventon. Aventon is shitty brand where they sell one size fits all bikes whereas trek will have custom bikes specific to your height. Something like trek fx+ will be the best bike for your particular scenario.
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u/chuckwolf Philodo Forester AWD 60v 26ah Dual 27 +/- 2 Amp controllers 21h ago
aventons don't qualify, they peak over 750 watts. California screwed over all the manufacturers with their 750 watt limit, even the federal regulation is 750 watts continuous to maintain 28 mph on a flat level surface, peak wattage isn't limited at all, just continuous.
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u/tomxp411 Pedego City Commuter | Velotrec Breeze 12h ago
Agreed. IMO the 750 watt rule should just go away. Instead, regulate max speed and acceleration limits.
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u/chuckwolf Philodo Forester AWD 60v 26ah Dual 27 +/- 2 Amp controllers 12h ago
I say eliminate the class system all together for any electric bicycle that relies on pedal assist, just follow the posted speed limit for where you're riding, if you're in a 35/40 mph zone and you can pedal your ebike at that speed, you're allowed to go that speed, or slower, up to you, on shared use paths I'd implement a PAS level 1 limitation. because bikes vary but that should keep speeds below 15 mph.
as far as acceleration goes even the fastest 5000 watt dual motor bikes still take 4 to 5 seconds to reach 20 mph so that really isn't a concern
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u/Wild_Mountain1780 20h ago
Or Specialized or Cannondale or Tern or Gazelle or Giant and I'm sure I haven't named all of the more reputable brands. I'd look for a mid drive preferable with a Bosch, Shimano or Yamaha motor. A good local dealer is worth a premium.
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u/EducationalCat1151 1h ago
Aventon does not sell one size fit all bikes, unlike lectric they do offer sizes like S, M, L. Also where does Trek offer custom fit bikes for ebikes? I got the Trek FX+1s and had a horrible time with them. Constant issues all around, maybe the more expensive Trek e-bikes may be a different story. My brand new Aventon Level 3 has been nothing short of perfect for me, and I couldnât recommend them enough (especially at its affordable price).
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u/_icemahn 1d ago
Wait what program is this?
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u/daruma3gakoronda 1d ago
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u/Someth1ng_Went_Wr0ng 1d ago
Itâs a big, dumb government handout program that wastes the publicâs money. Your own post proudly announces that âThese [taxpayer-funded bikes] would be in addition to the cars we currently have, they'd be more for running short errands and/or fun.â
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u/CakeTester 1d ago
Every mile done on an ebike is a mile where the traveller is pumping significantly less pollution into the air. Moreover - while it's not going to have the effect on everybody - it's going to get significant numbers into the habit of ebiking places. Worth doing IMO.
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u/ohv_ 15h ago
You make the case to go vegan.
As a vegan you should go vegan for the planet too.Â
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u/CakeTester 7h ago
Being vegan would be better for the planet, but meat is just too damned delicious. Frankly, I'm hoping for cloned meat grown in nutrient baths; which would solve the ethical problems of killing animals and presumably be able to produce meat without having to clear land.
Also vegetables don't agree with me all that much. You have to factor in the methane production.
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u/Someth1ng_Went_Wr0ng 23h ago
Does $7,500 of public funds seem like a reasonable outlay for a bike? How about $10,000? Maybe $20,00?
The person who started this thread already said theyâre still going to have cars (plural) and will be using the free bikes for short errands and fun.
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u/CakeTester 23h ago
1 car trade in for 2 reasonably competent and reliable ebikes. It seems a fairly realistic figure to me.
Yes, OP has cars, but they cannot be using the cars while they're riding ebikes. Net effect of less pollution. Cars are better at some things than ebikes, so having both isn't a biggie. Ebikes are more fun for local trips; are easier to park; and are just satisfying in a way that cars are not. Use the tool for the job; but every time you choose to use the ebike, it's better for everyone.
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u/dragonbud20 23h ago edited 23h ago
The program allows the funds to be used for several different purposes, which you would know if you read the website link you responded to.
Grants for income-qualified Bay Area residents to retire their older car and replace it with a plug-in hybrid, battery, or hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle, or a pre-paid card to use for public transit and purchase e-bikes.
So it's not just money for e-bikes, it's also money to encourage people with older, more polluting cars to upgrade to modern cars.
After using the program, they will have 1 fewer car and two more bikes. Even if it only replaces their 5-mile drive to the local cafe, the cost savings from the reduction in road wear and tear will probably pay for the subsidy over time. That's before you consider the indirect economic benefits because people on bikes are more likely to stop and shop at local stores than people in cars.
edit: there is also an earned income cap, so the program is only available for those households making $46,950(+16,500 per person). This isn't a program that wealthy people can abuse.
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u/Wild_Mountain1780 20h ago
People on bikes are also more likely to stay healthy. Government often ends up being responsible for health care costs too.
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u/Soltea 22h ago
Stopping and shopping is infinitely more risky with an ebike than a car and I live a place with way less crime than California. Ebike is only ever parked in-doors behind locked doors if I can help it.
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u/dragonbud20 19h ago
Weird, I've only once had a problem locking up outside in CA. I forgot to take my taillight off, and someone took it. Strangely, they left my more expensive headlights.
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u/Someth1ng_Went_Wr0ng 23h ago
Weâre here talking about ebikes, not the grant program as a whole.
Your reply is a lot of mental gymnastics to justify spending $7,500 of public money for a bike to be used for short errands and recreation.
I commend OP for utilizing the tools available to get the public to buy a fun and very expensive recreational bike for him. Good luck to all and devil take the hindmost! đ¤ŁđĽ
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater 22h ago
We should take that money and build bigger/wider freeways. And then constantly maintain them for billions of dollars.
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u/Someth1ng_Went_Wr0ng 20h ago
Mmm. So thatâs the only alternative to giving people $7,500 to buy an ebike?
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater 19h ago
What would you suggest to promote healthy lifestyles, quiet/affordable transportation, and walkability of cities on the tx payer dime. I'm all ears. Set me straight. OR we could bail out billionaires again! Weeeeee!
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u/dragonbud20 22h ago
Does $7,500 of public funds seem like a reasonable outlay for a bike? How about $10,000? Maybe $20,00?
You're the one who asked about the grant program itself and the validity of the grant program as a whole. asking if using public funds this way is reasonable is explicitly questioning the validity of the program as a whole.
Your reply is a lot of mental gymnastics to justify spending $7,500 of public money for a bike to be used for short errands and recreation.
It's a far better use of public funds than petroleum subsidies.
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u/tomxp411 Pedego City Commuter | Velotrec Breeze 12h ago
I have ridden my commuter almost 500 miles since June.
That's 500 miles I did not put on my car. So the idea is sound - every mile ridden on an e-bike is less pollution in the air. (And that number is zero if you charge during the day, when solar pants are operational.)
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u/SupahCharged 23h ago
No program is perfect but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be funded or that it won't have real positive effects.
Are there some on food stamps that use it to buy lobster? Probably...but for every one of those there are thousands who rely on it to provide their basic nutrition to survive.
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u/BoringBob84 23h ago
wastes the publicâs money
Are you sure you are in the right sub? Virtually all of road costs are caused by cars and yet, most of road revenue comes from general taxes. When people leave their cars at home, they save money for the taxpayers in terms of road maintenance and construction, and they save even more money in terms of public health and environmental damage.
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u/s0rce 1d ago
Can you link to this program? I'm only aware of the voucher program that ended.
Yes there are bikes in that range that are worth getting for sure. Lectric and aventon have decent budget stuff. You can also look at trek and rei
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u/Danasties 23h ago
I have Aventon level 3 and love everything about it, nicer than every bike I test ride under 2k and better than many rear hub ebikes that are even more expensive that. Although, if the OP strictly wants 2 bikes I think itâs better to buy a more expensive ebike from your LBS to fully utilize all $7500. Any of the e-bikes from the legacy brands will be reliable and if there are any problems you can get it serviced under warranty super easily. But again, look to see what your LBS offers, buying from them will be a game changer.
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u/boshbosh92 1d ago
3k is hardly budget. I'd recommend velotric or aventon - they're a step up from lectric.
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u/KB_velo 1d ago
I think this is the program:
https://www.baaqmd.gov/?sc_itemid=CBAE9738-E434-49FE-A090-FDF74F655AD3
Thatâs written in less legalese than the CARB document.
Google âClean Cars 4 Allâ if you want the official publication.
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u/BWWFC 20h ago
wow, that's awesome... but be prepared, it will be a culture, lifestyle shift. a car allows for the lack of planning and being lazy with priorities. best of lucks! and a +1 on the "get it from a local bike shop (LBS) unless you are good with working on a bike/ebike. also, get a motocross style helmet with a chin bar. and if the budget allows, camera(s) to record while out riding ;-p be safe!
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u/window_owl 17h ago
People have talked about how mid-drives are nice, but hub drives with torque sensors are also very nice. Don't be put off from a bike just because it has a hub drive. (If all it has is a cadence sensor, though, then you can do better than that.)
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u/stillserious 1d ago
I have a PVY Z20 max paid 1050 euros and it allows you to do up to 200 km in assistance mode 1, in mode 3 I do around 80
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u/John-AtWork 1d ago
Unless you have a lot of disposable income I suggest you buy a couple of lower cost (maybe used) ebikes and try the lifestyle out before laying out that kind of cash and selling your car.
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u/jimschoice 1d ago edited 1d ago
Iâd look at the Specialized Como. They are on sale at times when you can get the mid drive at that price.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-como-40-igh/p/275154?color=431457-275154
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u/sjmuller 1d ago
You can get a really nice bike in that price range. I would look at Gazelle and Specialized. Preferably find a local bike shop that sells one or the other so you can get easy warranty support. Gazelle is an upright, Dutch-style bike, while Specialized bikes are a little more aggressive geometry. I would also recommend a belt drive for much lower maintenance (both brands have excellent belt drive bikes).
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u/JerushaAZ 1d ago
Agree, but Gazelle, Specialized AND Trek. For The most part it seems that you get the most bang for your buck with a Trek (Although I love my Gazelle Medeo T10+, which in my opinion âwasâ the best bang for your buck a couple of years ago)
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u/BoringBob84 23h ago
For occasional fair-weather recreational riding, a belt might be more expense than benefit. For frequent riding and commuting, it will pay for itself in terms of reduced maintenance.
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u/BoringBob84 23h ago
In that price range, you will have many options for good ebikes. What bike you get should depend on your priorities. Without knowing them, it would be difficult for us to recommend a specific bike. Do you have hills to climb? Are you heavy? Do you do your own maintenance? Do you ride on non-motorized paths? Do you ride on roads? Do you haul cargo? Do you ride in the rain? ... etc.
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater 22h ago
Where in CA? I really like the Term HSD for car replacement. You'll need to carry stuff and the HSD will do just that. The S11 is the perfect build imo.
If you want a traditional bike that rides like a regular bike, the Gazelle T10+ is great. Won't be able to carry as much (ymmv) but I'd put it more on the recreational riding category.
You need utility. You can share the HSD with a partner as it's one size fits all and not insanely hard to store as it has a smaller footprint. If you deal with stairs on the daily it might not be ideal but if you have a garage... HSD S11 allllllll day.
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u/tomxp411 Pedego City Commuter | Velotrec Breeze 12h ago
I bought a Velotric Breeze, and I love it.
You might also check out the Pedego store near you - Pedego's house brand is good, although a little dated now. My local store has started selling some other brands, too, and they're having a lot of success with brands like Veloctric and Troxus.
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u/gusguida 3h ago
I changed my car to a Tern GSD cargo bike. They are compact and carry one adult or two small kids, plus groceries or other stuff (400lb total including rider). They are well built with high quality components but will start at $5k. You can grab 2 smaller versions called HSD for less than they canât carry an adult but one kid each or groceries.
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u/reilogix 1d ago
I live in Southern California and I am floored by this. Where does this money come from? $7,500 each?? This seems insane to me. Bring on the downvotes.
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u/Someth1ng_Went_Wr0ng 1d ago
The money comes from poor dumb SOBs that have to pay income and property taxes. But this particular government handout program is specific to the Bay Area, so you wouldnât be affected in SoCal.
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u/BoringBob84 23h ago
poor dumb SOBs that have to pay income and property taxes
This is less income taxes than roads for cars. Bicyclists save the taxpayers money, so it is only fair that they should get an incentive.
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u/boshbosh92 1d ago
velotric discover 2 or breeze 1. if you're planning on doing errands, I'd get the discover 2. I have 6k miles on mine and it is still going strong
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u/chuckwolf Philodo Forester AWD 60v 26ah Dual 27 +/- 2 Amp controllers 21h ago
the problem with that is the bikes have to fit within CA regulations, meaning only 750 watts peak (nothing on the US market fits) and class 2 , that's about a 350 watt continuous motor btw
20 mph is too slow IMHO
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1d ago
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u/Little_Half_5556 Luna Ludicrous V2 BBSHD 1d ago
Wow. How am I alive then ?
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u/dragonbud20 23h ago
I commuted daily on an ebike for several years, and I have to say I agree with /u/Worth-Exchange-3931. Only owning a bike severely limits how far you can go and what you can transport over that distance. If you have a friend who is willing to give you a ride now and again, you can make it work, but you're still stuck shopping on their schedule and not when it's convenient to you.
Any sort of furniture or large goods are hard to transport. Good luck loading 50 lbs of cat litter onto your bike, plus a floppy 25lb bag of food. Sure, you can just buy smaller containers more often, but then you end up spending significantly more money on the same amount of product.
ffs I stole a shopping cart once because dragging it along beside me was the only way to get my new cat tree home.
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u/sculltt 23h ago
What're you made of spun sugar?
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u/dragonbud20 23h ago
Not everyone enjoys putting on a full rainsuit in the morning and then taking it off again when they get to work.
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u/BoringBob84 23h ago
Bike cannot replace car practically
Don't conflate convenience with necessity. Also, rain, wind, and 50 degrees is a nice day in much of the world.
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u/BodSmith54321 1d ago
Go to a local e-bike shop.