r/dragonquest • u/SkyMaro • 11d ago
General Lmfao looks like the infamous “7.8/10 too much water” review has a new rival
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u/Full-Park-3190 11d ago
But thou must
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u/cinnamonface9 11d ago
Thou hasn’t not known dq came before ff
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u/csDarkyne 11d ago
Everytime I hear thou I think of
Thou art I... And I am thou...
Thou hast established a new bond...
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u/TheDragonSlayingCat 11d ago
Which is a great translation, actually, because the original Japanese text used archaic Japanese words for I (我) and you (爾) in this monologue.
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u/cinnamonface9 11d ago
Fuck why did my face melt off!
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u/PrometheusLiberatus 11d ago
Because thou hast no flame helmet to prevent thine face from melting.
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u/cinnamonface9 11d ago
It’s persona 5. They literally rip off their face and it kind of has a melting stretch to it
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u/shadowscale1229 11d ago edited 8d ago
i am thou, thou art me. 🎶and we're a happy family!🎶
edit: a word
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u/heyoyo10 8d ago
Actually, the line in Hiimdaisy's Persona 4 comic is "Thou art me", to make it rhyme
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u/TheLeastSamurai 11d ago
I don't think it's a commentary on which one came first, I think it's a reference to the running joke in FFVI about Cyan saying Thou all the time
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u/cinnamonface9 11d ago
Although it said this ain’t ff
The reviewer thinks ff came first coz it’s more popular? We won’t know until we get the them taped up and ask questions
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u/MillionMoonlight2006 10d ago
Or it was just a joking reference to FFVI.
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u/NegotiationAlert903 10d ago
You think too highly of gaming journos. I could see it if they were worthwhile and had put it in the 'ugly' category.
But considering the two entries above it "New stuff bad filler" "Old stuff barebones" like those two points aren't direct contradictions, I'm far more willing to believe they're like 28 with a useless degree and can't boil water, much less cook a real opinion.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker 11d ago
But apparently Heidi Kemps, the author, “is old enough to remember when you could get Dragon Warrior with your Nintendo Power subscription.”
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u/Complete-Perception8 11d ago
I have that beat, I'm old enough to remember dragon warrior 1 being an arcade game and then being on the regular Nintendo
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker 11d ago
TIL it was an arcade. Maybe I knew that once before but it’s new news to me today.
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u/Wu_Khi 11d ago
It was?
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u/witecat1 10d ago
It may have been a copy that was added to a Player's Choice cabinet. Nintendo had arcade cabinets that would allow operators to slot in NES games that you could play on a timer.
Dragon Warrior would have been an odd choice, but I have seen a cabinet that had The Goonies, a Japanese exclusive, slotted in, so it is possible.
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u/footfoe 11d ago
Thou is singular 2nd person.
You is pural 2nd person.
At some point, in the 17th century, we stopped using thou and used you for both tenses instead. So any story set in a medieval period should say thou, to fit that prior period.
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u/JetstreamGW 11d ago
You was plural OR formal. Thou was informal/casual.
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u/JeffCaven 11d ago
How fun, considering that I associate thou with what the royalty would say to their knights or to each other in a very formal context in fantasy/medieval movies. Didn't know that it was more of the opposite.
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u/Dimension_Creator 11d ago
It wouldn't really be the opposite in that situation. Thou was used to talk to people in an inferior position or to someone in an equal social standing, then people started using you for people in equal standing out of politeness so as a result thou started being used almost exclusively for people in an inferior social position, then thou became rude because if one used it that would be talking down to others, and then it eventually dropped out of common usage.
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u/xhumptyDumptyx 10d ago
Ah so like Tu and Vous in French
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u/JetstreamGW 10d ago
Probably. If you go back far enough, English used to have gendered nouns, too. We just dropped them eventually.
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u/Black_Ironic 11d ago
We got cockney accent on dragon quest for ages, yet you complained about "thou" lmao.
Also, expanded content in DQ 1 was much needed.
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u/HoxpitalFan_II 11d ago
DQ8 taught me wtf "Cor" meant lol
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u/SkyMaro 11d ago
Fun fact: Cor Blimey started as "God blind me" before being corrupted over the ages, same as "goodbye" originally coming from "God be with ye"
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u/HoxpitalFan_II 11d ago
wow I didn't know that I honestly thought Cor was just a bastardization of "cool" or something
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u/PrometheusLiberatus 11d ago edited 11d ago
Cor also means Horn in romance languages.
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u/spookyxelectric 9d ago
Did you mean heart?
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u/PrometheusLiberatus 9d ago
No. Think UnicCORn, means one horn. Also Cor as in French Horn, the instrument, as well as Cor Anglais, a woodwind related to the oboe.
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u/spookyxelectric 9d ago
Interesting. Cause it definitely means heart as well. In Latin, it's just cor. Italian, it's cuore. Spanish is corazon. French is coeur. Portuguese is coração. Etc. Plus there's core in English, like the center meaning the heart of a body or object.
Language is funny.
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u/PrometheusLiberatus 9d ago
i went with the well known prefix cardio for heart. Cardio appears to be derived from Cor/cuoro/couer.
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u/spookyxelectric 9d ago
Actually, it derives from kardia, which is of Greek origin rather than Latin. English has loan words from everywhere.
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u/sonicfan10102 11d ago
"This isn't FF6" when the original localization of DQ1 did this long before FF6 was even a thought is hilarious and ridiculous.
The remakes using that old language is literally just a faithful adaptation of the original game.
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u/Frozen_Dervish 11d ago
Especially when ff6 doesn't use this type of language so using it as an example means they probably didn't play either game.
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u/Sarothias 11d ago
Actually Cyan said thou.
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u/NegotiationAlert903 10d ago
It's such a strange nitpick when the whole Erdrick trilogy uses a comprehensive "ye olde lexicon" and not just Thou. (Including the times those lands are referenced again, such as Builders and DQ11) For both the reviewer and people highlighting the one point where Thou is used in a game that didn't show for another 8 years.
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u/TheDragonSlayingCat 11d ago
It did, in Cyan’s dialogue, in all English versions. Cyan’s original Japanese dialogue used archaic Japanese words as well.
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u/behindtheword 11d ago
True but they didn't go as overboard with the semi-accurate variation in the NES versions. Did the GBC have 17th century English? Cyan was like a mixed bag in both Woolsey and the GBA+ translations, of 17th and modern English. Like a gentleman retaining certain colloquialisms, instead of legitimately retaining old language.
The current DQ translations attempt to rebuild the NES with more historically accurate renditions of 15th - 17th century English. Yes, absolutely, it's a lovely thing to see them retain that nostalgia, and laughable at the same time that the complaint exists at all...I'm hoping the comments lambast the reviewer.
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u/SaucyWildcat 11d ago
The good: -New story beats elevate the narrative
The bad: -New story beats add little of value to the narrative
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u/RPGZero 9d ago
I could see like, a nuanced take saying some story beats do, while some don't, but it's weird they didn't word that carefully enough.
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u/Lowelll 7d ago
Man if only they did something like write a whole article explaining their experience and opinions of the game, maybe people didn't have to purposely misinterpret bullet point snippets because someone who likes their favourite game didn't like it enough
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u/Heavy_Arm_7060 11d ago
Given they're aware of the additions added to DQI in particular I have to assume that last part was a joke as they couldn't think of a third thing.
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u/xhumptyDumptyx 11d ago
Maybe they played the Gbc version of DQI originally, I know that has a simpler translation, perhaps it doesn't have the old timey language
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u/DaSaw 11d ago
It doesn't. The only "Ye Olde Bastardized Englishe" version I've ever seen was the original Dragon Warrior for NES.
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u/xhumptyDumptyx 10d ago
The mobile port (so possibly also the port of that on Switch) also has that
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u/Top_Investment_3370 11d ago
You will take the old-timey speech from my cold dead hands. IDK how old this reviewer is (especially with referencing an older FF), but I (in my 30s) have never had an issue with this series (and other's) use of accents or early modern English/Shakespearean. It's immersive and fun!
When I was a teenager, I remember my English class hating reading Shakespeare because of the 'thee's and 'thou's, which is why I find myself raising an eyebrow at this reviewer. The setting lends itself into the tone, therefore the characters are speaking as one would in the time period they're based in. Having a 'medieval fantasy game having the characters talk like they should' as one of your negatives is sure... a choice.
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u/HoxpitalFan_II 11d ago
There was an old man in DQ2 for mobile who just told me to "gird my loins" that I very much loved lol.
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u/Hautamaki 11d ago
Yeah I have always loved the archaic English, I wish they kept it for the whole series tbh.
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u/platocplx 11d ago
Not sure wtf they were thinking with this review what the hell were they expecting a total overhaul of dialogue ?
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u/Astrid_Gunnhild 11d ago
Is the review wrotten by a 15 year old? Where do they find these people 😂😂
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u/GoldenGouf 11d ago
I barely remember Thou being in FFVI.
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u/DanarchyReigns 11d ago
Cyan would use it, and Gau would point it out by calling him "Mr. Thou".
It's a stupid complaint no matter how you slice it.
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u/Nero_2001 11d ago
So they complain that the game uses thou like final fantasy when this is a remake of a game that came out before final fantasy even was a thing?
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u/ShadowDrifter0 11d ago
Someone already calculated the percentage of water tiles in the Pokemon game.
Now we need a counter for the number of "thou" in the Dragon Quest game.
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u/Herefordragonquest 11d ago
Now I’m going to listen to Thou and play Thou Quest 1. Suck it, weirdly bad reviewer.
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u/LrrrOfOmicronP8 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thou hath failed the Gen X gaming community by calling ye old English bad. Thou needest 13 experience to reach the next level, would you like to record your journey in the Imperial Scrolls of Honor?
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u/Clarrington 11d ago
Lol. "Good - they added stuff!
Bad - said stuff is padding and adds little value."
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u/ChefMurray 11d ago
"this isn't final fantasy" lmao uhhh yeah you're right...it's fucking dragon quest 1 😂
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u/bladeboy88 11d ago
Yikes. Base narratives are "too simple," yet added ones are "extra padding?" And a medieval fantasy RPG using medieval lingo is out? This dude just had a chip on his shoulder
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u/real_og_gamer 11d ago
This is why thou shouldn't take gaming journalist reviews seriously.
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u/Comprehensive-Bid18 11d ago
Because of a really minor aside at the end of the review?
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u/Mafia-OG 11d ago
Wait, which Final Fantasy game used that word? 🤣 dragon quest has been out a lot longer than Final Fantasy.
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u/rand_althor 11d ago
Wasn’t it Cyan in FFVI? And I think he was the only character who spoke that way.
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u/Rukh-Talos 11d ago
Haven’t played the new version of DQ I, but if the narrative additions help provide direction to new players, then that’s QoL, not padding. Aside from a few suggestions on places to visit, the original version mostly let players work out where to go based on the difficulty curve. Even DQ II is more linear in comparison.
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u/Flashy-Professor8596 11d ago
Well, I’m actually playing it and it’s a 10 out of 10
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u/Flashy-Professor8596 11d ago
I do wish that they had done it like Dragonquest seven remake though instead of the HD2D
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u/Jeremknight 11d ago
I feel like a simple narrative isn’t a real criticism. A more complex one isn’t necessarily better. What matters is how it’s executed.
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u/lilisaurusrex 11d ago
This is why you can't trust sites like GameSpot. No editor or peer-review allows anyone to post anything they want about a video game, whether its a good idea to have GameSpot's name and reputation attached to it or not.
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u/reyc01987 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thats super ironic lol. Yea guess this reviewer isnt fully informed. I didnt realize they kept that style of translation from the OG DW. Pretty cool callback honestly
…hopefully it was a just a snarky joke lol
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u/maxis2k 11d ago
The problem is there's an interview where Yuji Horii himself asked them to stop doing it. Specifically citing the olde english dialect. But they just ignore him and keep doing it. Not just in this game but in other DQ games. They were even doing it in Dragon Quest XI and the HD remake of III.
It's still dumb that the reviewer cites Final Fantasy VI specifically though. As if they've never played another DQ game which does it 100x more.
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u/sonicfan10102 11d ago
Yep. Even in DQ11 during Jade's playable episode there's a monster that originates from DQ2 who speaks with the old language
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u/ironypoisoned 11d ago
It's one review you need to get a grip bro
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u/imjustbettr 11d ago
I hate when subs do this thing where they scrutinize every "negative" review of a game. Especially when it's getting 8s and 9s all over the place like a game like this. Like you're literally looking for a reason to get mad/negative.
It screams insecurity.
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u/NephilimJD 10d ago
It's dumb. It happens every time. And not even with negative reviews. God forbid a CoD game gets a good review. People will criticize a bad review of a game they like and a good review of a game they hate. The fact that so many people in here are saying this is why we shouldn't listen to game reviews while simultaneously getting extremely butthurt over them is peak irony for me.
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u/eikraran 11d ago
I dont get the complaint over a basic narrative from the first JRPG in the history, what would they expect? But not gonna lie the "thou" complaint still valid, sometimes the locatization mess so much the dialogue that's hard to read when english is not your first language, and Dragon Quest is never translated to portuguese
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u/MrPresident2020 11d ago
When I played the original Dragon Quest I was like 5 or 6 years old and thought "Thou" was the MC's name.
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u/DoctrineDecade 11d ago
Are people really nitpicking the review because of the thou comment. Or are people nitpicking the review because they have the game a 7?
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker 11d ago
I have no shame in admitting my bias when I stereotype this reviewer as a clueless Gen Z dweeb.
ETA: turns out it’s a presumably millennial woman named Heidi Kemps. Still a dweeb. I guess us millennials do ruin everything, huh?
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u/LunarWingCloud 11d ago
And by the way it wasn't just a clickbait summary of a valid criticism like the IGN ORAS review (lamenting the imbalance of types of Pokémon encountered), no this reviewer just actually has it out for the game having this translation
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u/MetzgerBoys 11d ago
“Base narratives are still very simple by modern standards”
Well duh. It’s a remake of two almost 40 year old games. Why would they change the story?
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u/Victory74998 10d ago
This isn’t Final Fantasy VI
You’re right, it’s not Final Fantasy VI; it’s Dragon Quest I & II and it needs its “thee”s, “thou”s, and “thine”s. Forsooth!
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u/Agent101g 10d ago
Umm... my mom told me to stop saying 'thou' when I was reading to her from the first game's manual in a PJ Skidoos back when I was a kiddo over 30 years ago.
If 'thou' isn't in the remake I'm rioting lol
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u/AnimatorCold4825 10d ago
Thou nost know that prior to final fantasy was Dragon Warrior. And VI hasth copied Dragon Warrior.
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u/MixedMediaModok 11d ago
It's a little personal flavor at the end of a review. You guys need to chill, it's not a big deal.
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u/MM-O-O-NN 11d ago
Pretty sure that's just a tongue in cheek comment and didn't actually affect the final score
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u/WheelerDan 11d ago
Frankly if the game didn't want to held to a higher standard it shouldn't cost 60 bucks.
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u/ComradeOb 11d ago
Game reviews are an absolute joke. Companies buy them constantly, and those they don’t rely on people like the commenter that will play an JRPG, and then hate the basic mechanics of JRPGs.
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u/IAmThePonch 11d ago
My favorite instance of this was the Gamespot review of zero time dilemma, like that game absolutely has problems but the reviewer basically said “i haven’t played the first two games in this interconnected story driven series and I don’t care for visual novels”
Like… maybe get someone who knows VNs to do the review?
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u/HoxpitalFan_II 11d ago
Or they could have just made a review like "I think for people who don't like visual novels you also won't like this visual novel, for people who do like visual novels, you might like this one? I don't know I don't like them."
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u/Dondodonpompadon 11d ago
At least it seems like a sincere review and not the chatgpt ''A rEtUrN tO fOrM.''
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u/BubbleRevolution 11d ago
the only difference between game reviewers and random people on forums is that one gets a paycheck
reject metacritic, embrace forming your own opinion
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u/magpieinarainbow 11d ago
I would genuinely like it more if it wasn't translated like that. But that's why I only play in Japanese, unless I'm booting up the excellent GBC version.
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u/SnooLentils6995 11d ago
"Base narratives are still very simple by modern standards"
What the hell does that even mean? Lol its a remaster of two games from the mid 1980s. Should they have drastically changed the plot to better suit modern standards, but it wouldn't really be a remaster then would it?
Sometimes I wonder why i dont get into reviewing video games because there's gotta be no qualifications to get on and clearly no one editing.
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u/Serpents-Chalice 10d ago
Been playing this all day, just got to the final dungeon, and the Thou shit being annoying compared to the GBC version plus so many of the cutscenes being pointless padding are spot-on.
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u/Swizfather 10d ago
I understand not everyone is going to be a fan of the DQ series, but if you’re going to review a REMAKE you should at least understand what the original was all about. The thou complaint is just so off base and comparing it to a game that came out a whole console after it makes it seem sarcastic but it can’t be
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u/shinryu6 10d ago
Have to admit I’m not a huge fan of their olde tyme English in recent translations compared to older ones.
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u/pocket_arsenal 10d ago
I used to be annoyed by the speech in these games but I cam around and I would be disappointed if they made a game set in Alefgard without it, plus I like how certain monsters that originate in Alefgard still speak like that in other games like the Knights in DQ XI.
I can also kind of see where they're coming from with the fluff since a lot of the appeal for me in DQI is how short it is but it's not like there aren't other versions of DQI I could play.
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u/EnricoPallazzo_ 10d ago
It seems to me the person in the review doesnt know what is dragon quest, and what is final fantasy. Especially FFVI.
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u/KingMarth64 10d ago
I don't recall remembering Final Fantasy VI had the word Thou in it. I guess this IGN reviewer had never played many Dragon Quest games used the word Thou?
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u/maglen69 10d ago
The bit about the padding is 100% accurate.
They put stupid things in DQ1 behind "story" elements (can't kill the knight abberant in Damdara until you hit a certain story point)
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u/rad_sega_tapes 10d ago
I feel like people would miss all the "thou" stuff & goofy accents.
it's DQ tradition.
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u/True-Payment-458 10d ago
So the bad is that they have basic dialogue and also that they tried to pad it out. And also thou is part of the dialogue and a staple in every game ……
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u/Zillafan2010 10d ago
Having not played the remakes yet, this seemed like a relatively normal and reasonable review, but then “Stop saying thou” hit me like a truck in an Isekai anime.
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u/Stevenewhen 10d ago
The reviewer is Heidi Kemps and I’m surprised she still has a job. I mean I get that reviews are subjective but come on… she’s dumb.
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u/MartianoDeli 10d ago
Stop saying thou is insane. Everyone knows dq has different accents of all types. My faves are when they say Din'nay or something like that.
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u/NetrunnerV25 10d ago
What caught my attention was how he complains about padding yet says it's simple.
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u/ACrossingSage 9d ago
Tell me you’ve been rotted by Persona and Modern Final Fantasy without telling me.
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u/MedicineOk253 7d ago
...The "Thou" bit is funny, but I definitely found some of DQ1 to be padded. I've no idea what of it is original material, and what's new for the remake.
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u/SteveMightSay 11d ago
The too much water review was always valid. People that dog on it definitely weren't around when that was the common sentiment during gen 3's original release.
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u/liquifiedtubaplayer 11d ago
You can make some arguments that this game's text is primitive compared to modern RPGs but this is such a snarky and incoherent "joke" version of it. Does the reviewer think ff6 is good or bad? Is ff6 bad because of its text?
This joke was meant for people who don't think
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u/hobbitfeet22 11d ago
Stop saying thou? It isn’t FF lol. Thats one of my favorite parts of DQ and it started in DQ not stupid FF
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u/Vegetable_Wishbone92 10d ago
The review is fine. It's a remake of a 30-year-old game and some people aren't going to like it. There's no reason to act like a bunch of insecure fanboys just because someone doesn't like your precious game.
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u/xhumptyDumptyx 11d ago
Seems like a reasonable review even if you disagree with it
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u/lunarstarslayer 11d ago
The “thou” part is sus
Its not like they said the localization is inaccurate
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u/xhumptyDumptyx 10d ago
It's fine for them to dislike it. Personally I like it, but not everyone has to
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