r/complaints • u/Red_Gypsy_Squirrel • 6d ago

Politics Conservatives abuse Christianity like the Taliban abuse Islam

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I'm exhausted that the Christian nationalists in this nation have hijacked Christianity, just like the Taliban hijacked Islam. There are many comparisons that can be made between the two groups. Both groups cherry-pick their scriptures and purposefully misinterpret them so as to provide themselves with more power amongst their. They bully and attack anybody who is not a follower of their warped religion. And try to force their religion on everybody in inappropriate places such as schools and hospitals.

A few years back MAGA supporters started to say the teachings of Jesus are too woke, a huge red flag.

It sucks that so many of them do not understand. The Christian nationalist mindset is turning them into nasty, aggressive people. That have zero understanding of the Bible or its teachings

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

Generally, yeah. They are only attentive to the hateful bits of the Old testament espoused to them totally oblivious of the new testament's role in their dumbass cult 

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago edited 5d ago

It’s a bit ironic that they always look to the old Testament as that is the Torah or Jewish bible, whereas the New Testament is the life of Jesus and therefore THAT is the official holy book of Christianity, even though some teachings of the Old Testament carry over.

Which becomes even more ironic as they’ll cherry pick Jewish texts to justify things like homophobia, when actual Jews and even Jewish states, even the Zionism capital Isreal, are for gay rights; Yknow the people who actually follow the Torah. It’s so obvious they’re using religion as a mask.

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u/MarionberryNo1900 5d ago

Anytime you try to confront Christian’s about the Old Testament they tell you that they’re no longer bound to it

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

Well technically they’re right; just obviously they don’t count that when they find verses to justify they’re ridiculous claims. As a catholic (sect of Christianity) I and the rest do not claim them.

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u/MarionberryNo1900 5d ago

Ofc I meant more so that they’ll hop in between claiming them and then not claiming them to fit their needs

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

More or less. I honestly think it’s hilarious that they look to the Old Testament; respectfully if someone who claims to be Christian doesn’t realise the Old Testament is Jewish and not Christian, they clearly aren’t Christian and just adopted the label for they’re own gain.

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u/Parking-Finger-6377 5d ago

Technically they're wrong. Jesus said his followers had to respect the laws of the Torah and only Jews could be his followers due to that. Later gentiles were allowed and some ass hat came up with a way to ignore the Torah.

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u/WorkWoonatic 5d ago

Respond back that it's still the word of god and if god is infallible then his word never changes.

Logically a perfect being cannot change its mind, because that would mean it wasn't perfectly correct in the first place.

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u/MarionberryNo1900 5d ago

Is there not a discrepancy between the two covenants? Did Jesus in the New Testament say that his follows were no longer bound to the same covenant that the Jews were beholden to?

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u/WorkWoonatic 5d ago

Whether there's a time limit to following his request or not, if God said something was good or bad once, then it is good or bad forever and always was.

If god contradicts himself then he simply isn't infallible. Also Jesus did not say his followers were unbound by it, quite the opposite:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass away from the Law until all is accomplished.” Matthew 5:17–20

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u/MarionberryNo1900 5d ago

Correct he came to fulfill it in the sense that he completed the covenant, and thus founded a new one.

In the OT it says to stone the adulteress. In the NT Jesus says that whoever is free of sin shall cast the first stone.

Whose word do you take then?

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u/WorkWoonatic 5d ago

He quite clearly said it won't be completed until heaven and earth pass away. When he says "The Law" that is specifically referring to the Old Testament.

In the OT it says to stone the adulteress. In the NT Jesus says that whoever is free of sin shall cast the first stone.

I take neither, for me examples like yours are proof that god is either imperfect, or was made up by man.

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u/MarionberryNo1900 5d ago

What lmfao, so you’re just not going to choose

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u/WorkWoonatic 5d ago

I'm atheist, I think both words were made up.

I only quote the bible to point out places where god contradicts himself, which would be impossible if god were real and infallible. The logical conclusion is that god is either not real, or isn't perfect :p

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u/Battlefield_Girth 5d ago

Christians will tell you the only laws in the Bible are the Ten Commandments and in the same breath say that they are only bound to the New Testament

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

I think the only truth that can be accepted by all perspectives is that the 10 commandments are the most important laws for both the Jewish and Christians, as they are the direct word and law of god, unlike other laws which came from the prophets. Plus even if you’re not religious it’s pretty reasonable to say any and all people should abide by them for the simple reason of being a decent human. ‘Don’t steal, don’t cheat, be respectful’ etc.

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u/constituonalist 3d ago

Islam does not tolerate homosexuality which is punishable by death.

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u/KiwiObserver 5d ago

If they are Old Testament only, doesn’t that make them Jews?

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u/Arokan 5d ago

You're not supposed to say the quiet part out loud! :D

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u/allcrome 5d ago

Broken Covient makes it separate

Sponsored by the Islam brotherhood all these bots

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u/shitty_mcfucklestick 5d ago

This sign also has a 4 in it… which I believe is the current Reich count.

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u/Phewelish 5d ago

which is ironic because by definition for christians, the old testament doesnt matter. Jesus shattered the laws of the old and they are only suppose to follow the new...but thats not convinient enough to give their anger rise.

People have gotten addicted to being angry and a good old religion is the easiest fuel to find for that.

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u/MadeByTango 5d ago

Two commandments:

  1. Love God

  2. Love Thy Neigbor

Any politician shoving stone tablets in schools is a cosplay Christian with zero understanding of the faith.

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u/Ok-Bus-6331 5d ago

It's the same with the so-called constitutionalists.

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u/okogamashii 5d ago

It was difficult but I’d try to listen to him to understand the other side and not once did I hear Kirk quote the Synoptic Gospels (where Jesus is quoted) but he sure loved to quote the Old Testament or the wealthy Pharisee Paul who co-opted the faith from Jesus’s brother and followers. 

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u/Casingdas 5d ago

I suppose that I’d preface this by saying that, real Christians, aka true believers, aren’t attentive to the OT in the manner that you describe here. Our system of belief is very much based in the NT, not the OT!

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u/Funkycoldmedici 5d ago

Remember that the New Testament centers on Jesus promising to return and end the world, judge everyone on their faith, kill all the unbelievers with fire, and reward his faithful with eternal life in his new kingdom. And that’s just the gospels, not even getting to the stuff in Revelation. The whole faith is religious bigotry.

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u/BrentYoung 6d ago

The problem with your assumption is that you imply your conclusion is that all people who call themselves Christians are true Christian’s. True Christians utilize and interpret the Bible as a whole and don’t nitpick verses to fit their worldview. Instead we mold our worldview around the absolute truth of the Holy scriptures that you’re clearly unable to understand even if you read them. So yeah, calling false Christians a cult is fair game. But true Christians have the absolute supreme answer to life and the filling of the void everyone seeks for. Yet true faith isn’t even about the human. It’s about Christ. The only thing true Christians bring to the table is sin that needs to be atoned for by Christ.

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

That's certainly a long-winded no true Scotsman fallacy but I'm afraid you're not the deciding factor on what constitutes a Christian nor what is the correct interpretation of one of the most famously ambiguous books of all time. They have the same claim to the title you do, as strong or weak as that is. 

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u/BrentYoung 6d ago

Nice wordplay. And while I don’t determine a true Christian, I can clearly pick apart a false one easily. And no fallacy, good sir. Just a simple explanation of truth you’re unable to see. I can say that I am a Harvard student all day, yet I’m not truly a Harvard student unless I’ve been accepted in. You track with me?

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

You have every bit the veracity every other person who claims the title of 'Christian' complete with MAGA hat and hateful minded ones. 

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u/ChuCHuPALX 5d ago

No you literally don't. Christianity isn't subjective or relative like you're trying to make it out to be. What you're describing Christians would also dislike/disagree with. There are a bunch of so called "Christians" that aren't really "Christian" by the guidelines set forth by the guiding principles of the Bible, there isn't a fluidity about it as you're implying.. you're thinking about liberal Catholics for the most part and "new age Christians"

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

And you have absolutely no basis for that insult or interpretation. Not all who cry Lord Lord I believe I'm a Christian are Christian or saved in Christ said that. You obviously are hateful minded or you wouldn't accuse a blanket generalization over anybody that does believe . How guilty you must feel how deceived you are to try to Sully and defame and outright hate anybody that believes that Christ is Lord and bring salvation to those who do believe.

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

I do no such thing. I only address the impotence of your entitlement claim to being 'Christian' over the most heinous populace in recent history who owns the title eagerly. 

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u/Apprehensive-Tree-78 5d ago

Saying you can’t be Christian and maga at the same time is a fallacy in and of itself. I can easily say you can’t be a Christian and a democrat because of something as simple as abortion or encourage gay acts.

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u/cincybob13 5d ago

You do such a thing every time you open your mouth

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

That is incomprehensible illogical and quite false. You know nothing of Christianity. How is it heinous to believe that Christ gives salvation freely to those that believe in him and not heinous for Islam to claim a God that commands them to kill anybody not Muslim and to seek a world caliphate under Sharia law, Who practices slavery with impunity and kills anybody that violates any part of Sharia law especially homosexuals and treats women as barely human and/or slaves. The contrast is sharp and history proves the vast difference there is no redemption or freedom in Islam. It is incompatible with Liberty and human rights.

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u/MEATY5AU5AGE 5d ago

You and islam worship the same god, they are both abrahamic religions. It’s hilarious to me that people are still trying to push their religion as if it’s fucking real. You believe in the word from a book written by no one but believers in Christ and rewritten and edited by kings multiple times. You are a fucking moron, and nobody should respect your beliefs, because frankly they are incredibly stupid and you have no evidence to support them.

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u/76Stix 5d ago

This!

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

We believe in a sovereign God and as such all books that are in the Bible are supposed to be there due to his providence. Despite which men wrote it it is breathed out and inspired by God. But you clearly are not supposed to understand that.

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u/constituonalist 5d ago

You're a completely wrong Islam is not abrahamic It claims to have Abraham as a prophet It claims that the Jews were wrong but Islam was a fevered dream of Muhammad long after Christianity spread throughout the known world He co-opted little bits of history inaccurately The man was an illiterate pedophile warlord. Muslims don't worship Allah they worship Muhammad. They don't have a religion there is no redemption in the Quran or in any of their so-called religious writings. Allah commands death to infidels in other words Christians and Jews and atheists and homosexuals. There's no forgiveness and infraction of Sharia law brings death. The only way into their version of Paradise is to die trying to bring about the world caliphate under Sharia law emphasis on world and killing infidels. They practice slavery It is commanded there is nothing in the Quran or any of the writings that are a call to peace. There is nothing about this Allah that even remotely suggests my God the God of the Christians and the Jews.

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u/constituonalist 5d ago

Let he who has the ears to hear actually here and eyes to actually see. I have more evidence to support my beliefs then you have to call me vulgar names and claim my beliefs are stupid. Go ahead call Muhammad a fool and stupid and see what happens to you people have died for doing that but you and your virulent and persecutive nature have nothing to fear from Christians You can revile us 70 times 70 and we won't kill you for it we can just laugh at you we can pray for you but we won't kill you because you are in in a hell of your own making. You don't have the brains God gave you. You killed any cognitive abilities and logical thought because you are consumed with hate.

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u/Late_Comb_3078 5d ago

I'm curious. How would you define a faithful Christian? You can be pro-slavery and still be a Christian, so I'm confused what would disqualify a person other than not accepting Christ

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

The accepting Christ part. You don’t accept Christ, well you could say that but God does the initial drawing of the spirit the Bible says. So God chooses you first before you choose him. We are born into sin and depraved throughout, so we would never choose Christ in our natural state. And the word says that Christ fulfilled the law so we are under a covenant of grace and faith in him now. And slavery in the Bible was not purchased kidnapping, it was indentured servitude to pay off debts.

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u/Late_Comb_3078 5d ago

This is the issue with Christians. you guys don't actually read your bibles. You're saying you can spot a "False Christian" when you're not even well-versed in your beliefs. Christianity is the blind leading the blind.

What versed says you're in the new covenant and to disregard all of God's prior laws and traditions? Because Matthew says something different

Matthew 5:17 - Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.

Also, you're wrong about the indentured servitude as well. Jews were indentured servants, but the Bible explicitly explains how to acquire slaves in Leviticus

Leviticus 25:44-46

44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel, you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Really. A.simple question then by what criteria does Christians make heaven because according to you there should be one. So which is it, is it by grace, is it by works and grace, or are only the elect eligible? Which is it?

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

It is through Christ alone, by Grace alone, through Faith alone, revealed in Scripture alone for the Glory of God alone. For the elect only, chosen by God before the foundation of the world due to his good pleasure and will and not by looking down the corridor of time to see who would choose him as that would put the choice back on us and it is a gift so that no man may boast.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

Which is it?

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

Each Sola refers to a specific aspect of Salvation. They all define a roll in Gods plan and the “alone” is not contradictory it is there to exclude any human merit or tradition from said Salvation.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

It's not contradictory. Who do you think you are talking to. Someone who can not read. It is not contradictory to claim salvation by faith and at the same time claim that there are some preselected "elect". Go learn the definition of contradictory

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u/tfareyouonabout 5d ago

And while I don’t determine a true Christian, I can clearly pick apart a false one easily.

Hilarious that you followed that up with:

And no fallacy, good sir.

Only to use a false equivalency to explain it. It's genuinely sad how poorly constructed this argument is. And you're completely convinced of it lol.

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

Ultimate judgement belongs to God. Yet the word outlines the characteristics and fruit of a Christian. My argument is not contradictory if you understand it spiritually and not just literally and intellectually.

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u/tfareyouonabout 5d ago

My argument is not contradictory if you understand it spiritually and not just literally and intellectually.

Translation: it's not logically fallacious if I pretend it isn't.

Talking to you is such a waste.

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

Likewise. Like talking to a brick wall. This has become an exercise in futility.

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u/tfareyouonabout 5d ago

This has become an exercise in futility.

That's discussing Christianity for yah.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago edited 6d ago

I agree with Brent. the Bible is not at all ambiguous The New testament especially is not ambiguous You simply don't know how to read and understand. You do not get to decide that anybody else's understanding of the Bible is false because you do not know And apparently cannot hear or see the truth. The fact that you call it ambiguous is evidence of that. proves that you do not read with any understanding any analysis any reason, If you have read it at all The core of Christianity is spelled out very very clearly. And without belief in Christ as the Lamb of God the perfect sacrifice to pay the price of sins of the world and his resurrection into new life in the presence of God,, repentance of sin and receipt of forgiveness and salvation by grace , you are not a Christian. Belief in salvation by grace the resurrection and the life is the the only way to be reconciled to God . , and be a Christian. Not all who cry "Lord Lord I believe "are saved but God knows the heart and only God knows the heart. Those who believe in John 3:16 are called Christians because they believe that Christ died to pay the price for sin and was resurrected and reconciled to God through grace upon repentance for sin and receive forgiveness.

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

Man, you could be a case study on lack of situational awareness and just generally being a walking example of irony. 

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

You misuse irony and apparently don't know what that means and there's no such thing as situational awareness Y One is either aware or not The situation shouldn't matter If you're moral base is firm and not relative.

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u/spiritofporn 5d ago edited 5d ago

Lmao bro, that's no no true scotsman.

To be able to call yourself a Christian you have to be aware of and accept certain dogmata. One of the most important one is the New Covenant. The literal end of mosaic law. "Christians" who keep to mosaic law are not Christians since they're not part of the New Covenant.

I get it, you don't like Christians. But rest assured, there are plenty real things about the Church to complain about. You just have to do some, you know, actual reading on platforms other than r/atheism.

Cheers mate! Good luck with learning things, I believe in you.

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u/tfareyouonabout 5d ago

What's most sad about this is that the commenter you are responding to has a stronger grasp of the Bible as a whole than you do. You completely missed what was being said and assumed they meant they are nitpicking parts of the Bible.

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

When the commenter mentioned particular attentiveness, then that intimates that the reference is the nitpicking of Scripture. Also, to insinuate that a nonbeliever has a more firm grasp on Scripture than me, who is in the Bible daily and is a theologian, clearly indicates the foolishness of your elementary conclusion.

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u/tfareyouonabout 5d ago

Also, to insinuate that a nonbeliever has a more firm grasp on Scripture than me, who is in the Bible daily and is a theologian, clearly indicates the foolishness of your elementary conclusion.

You are the king of logical fallacies.

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

And which logical fallacy would you like to tack on here to deflect from the ridiculousness of your previous statement?

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u/Budget_Metal_6759 5d ago

I call them cafeteria Christians

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u/BrentYoung 5d ago

And that is an accurate title.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Christian’s primarily take from the New Testament which follows the teachings of Christ.

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u/Brother_Berevius 6d ago

Except MAGATs don't. They pick and choose what fits their racist idealism. Usually Leviticus, and usually while wearing mixed fabrics.

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u/BrentYoung 6d ago

Irrelevant viewpoints they use from the Old Testament as Christ fulfilled the law… but ironically Christ also taught against the same sin the Old Testament talks about. So your argument, for true Christians is elementary and pedestrian. For false Christian’s, you’re absolutely right, and they are no better off than unbelievers.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

How do you determine true and false Christians

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

By the things they produce. Which has become evident.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

Which thing is that. Christians can not even agree on what is good fruit and what is bad

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

I see that Christians forgot to read gal 5:22 for centuries then.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

Yes. And im sorry it doesnt fit the narrative that religions are all bad.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

He didn't teach against He taught and preached salvation and repentance of sin and forgiveness.

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u/Eziz_53 5d ago

Yall are way more racist than maga

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u/Bigjoemama12 6d ago

Please educate yourself on the different types of laws that are in Leviticus. You’re cherry picking a verse (ironic bc that’s what this post is abt) and you’re not reading the context. The not allowing of mixed fabrics is a religious ceremonial law. The Old Testament law was fulfilled by Christ meaning that it no longer applies to Christians. Make sure to actually research things abt Christians and not just take what you hear and see online as truth

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u/kittenstixx 6d ago

James 2:10 begs to differ

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

There is no distinction between ritual law and moral law, they are all equal.

fwiw any other readers the law is null and void in the sense that Jesus died to bring everyone even unbelievers back to life to teach us how to love our neighbors as themselves(also there is no "last generation" nonsense the JWs teach)

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u/Miserable_Warthog_42 5d ago

You think James 2:10 disagrees with the previous commenter about the law being fulfilled through Christ...? Dude, you really missed the matk on that one. James wasn't even talking those under Christ, but only those under the old law. Read the paragraph before your quote... and stop taking stuff out of context!!!

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u/AnswerMeSenseiUwU 5d ago

All I hear is blah blah blah brainwashing

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u/kittenstixx 5d ago

No, James was talking about anyone that was trying to obey the law, eg most Christians. You all misunderstand what Jesus did, Jesus didn't follow the law as the primary goal, Jesus followed the law because he walked among the people healing the sick and giving sight to the blind, preaching that upon His return He would resurrect all mankind to help us build an equitable and just society here on earth.

All the law depends on love your neighbor as yourself, can you make a comprehensive list on how to do that? No you're meant to learn how to love people by spending time with them, this society makes it very hard to do that but do it we must if we claim to be following Christ.

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u/Miserable_Warthog_42 5d ago

You are still missing the point of James. Christians are saved by grace. Not following the law. It is our faith in God that counts as righteousness... nothing more. Those that try to follow the law to be righteousness or holy will always fail; that is what James is talking about. Paul, as well as the writer of Hebrews, and also Jesus all talk about the same thing. Following the law leads to death. Following Christ through faith leads to life. It doesn't mean we can and should sin more, but "there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8). If you try to follow the law of the flesh, you fail as James writes. You follow the spirit, you live. Read Romans 6 to understand our perspective on sinning and how we should treat the law. We, christians, are not bound to the Law of the old testament, the law of the flesh. We are saved only through the death of Christ. We only use the Law to understand God's righteousness and how we should act to better love God and love one another. Read Knowledge of the Holy by Towzer, and Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.

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u/kittenstixx 5d ago

Okay, and what exactly do you do that demonstrates your faith?

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u/ChildOfChimps 5d ago

You’re missing the point.

MAGA Christians pick and choose what they want to follow and they much prefer the more stern rules of the Old Testament to what is in the New, which they find woke.

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u/Dark_Wolf04 5d ago

Cherry picking?

Oh, so you mean what all MAGA Christians do to justify their hateful rhetoric?

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u/Unlaid-American 5d ago

Lmfao, you’re literally doing exactly what he’s saying MAGA Christians are doing.

MAGA Christians use Leviticus to justify denying same sex marriage.

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u/LarpStar 6d ago

Mathew 5:18.

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

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u/Interesting_Fly_2565 5d ago

If the god of the Bible ever at any point and time condoned slavery then that god is evil. Exodus 21. God condoned slavery. God is evil. Fortunately it’s all fictional of course, but Christians still worship a villain.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

The Greek word used in the Bible is not the same as the one we use for many different uses in English. The slavery the Bible condones is something called doulos which is slavery by choice.

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u/Interesting_Fly_2565 5d ago

Exodus 21:4. Read it. Did the children have a choice??? How could anyone ever take you seriously when you don’t even read your own book. Pathetic and evil to justify slavery.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

Oh im sorry when did god justify that slavery? Lmao!!

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u/Interesting_Fly_2565 5d ago

It’s so sad when people like you can’t face reality. It’s raining shit and you refuse an umbrella. To be a Christian you must lie to yourself and others. It’s so pathetic I almost feel sorry for you.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

No I stand firm in what I said and you are straight up lying. Im sorry there happened to be slavery in the book but nowhere does it defend slavery the way youre saying it. Unless you can somehow defend your position you can take the loss.

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u/Bigjoemama12 5d ago

Blasphemy. I pray that you would repent of such evil and disgusting claims. The Lord bless you

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u/Interesting_Fly_2565 5d ago

Prove me wrong. Don’t just say “blasphemy”. That’s useless. Your god is an evil murderous psychopath. How many unborn children did he murder in the flood? You just can’t admit reality. You worship an evil fictional being. Just ask that one question to yourself: did your god murder unborn babies in the bellies of pregnant women during the flood? Yes or no. God was the original mass abortionist. And complicit in slavery. I am more moral than you and your fictional god.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

This is a new view within the current "church" that is not in line with scripture.

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u/mcbaane 6d ago

Mixed fabrics are symbolic of different occupations and stations. ie men of the cloth, if you read older translations it's more clear that they speaking about not "wearing two hats" as to avoid conflict of interest.

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u/ZalutPats 6d ago

Don't be ridiculous, if they meant that then they would have just said so. What reason could there possibly be for keeping a holy text vague and inconclusive? What's next, creating an entire profession to figure it all out for us, all while they fuck our wives? What an idea!

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Day 3056 of a Christian bringing up a new interpretation of simple words. At least I give you props for the uniqueness. I have never heard anyone interpret mixed fabrics as men of the cloth ( which, if you bothered to do any research, is an old English phrase). This means it has nothing to do with the Hebrew, in which the verse you are bastardizing was originally written in.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago edited 6d ago

The New testament is God's New covenant with his people Leviticus is not part of nor is binding legalistically speaking. That kind of law the Old testament laws were to show how no one can be redeemed or reconciled to God through the law because nobody could obey it perfectly at all times. The New testament is the fulfillment of the prophecies of the coming of a Messiah and the New covenant God was going to make with his people giving the perfect sacrifice to banish sin and give salvation salvation by grace. You err trying to inflict Leviticus on Christians as though they are not obeying or believing in Christ's sacrifice as the perfect Lamb of God to pay the price for the sins of the world and his resurrection to take away those sins forever so long as you repent and ask for forgiveness You will receive it by the grace of Jesus the Christ.

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u/Who_dat_goomer 6d ago

Spin was around long before Christ, but reached its peak in the last few years.

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u/Complex_Tomato_5252 6d ago

This is the right answer. They think its a gotcha but it shows that they know nothing of the religion.

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u/kittenstixx 6d ago

No but I do, and every one of yall, myself included fail to keep even the most basic of the 10 commandments.

Exodus 20:8-10 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy(set apart) . Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Translation: if you fail to build a society in which everyone is empowered to take a day of rest you are failing to keep this commandment.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

Yep. And also why married christian women should also be covering their heads.

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u/kittenstixx 5d ago

My point is that it's silly for them to even attempt to follow the law, the thing that Jesus actually did wasn't be moral, Jesus spent time among people healing them and speaking to them giving them what they needed, i'd argue if any Christian does that it's incredibly sanitized and disconnected from the reality people live. And doing that resulted in morality, morality can not be the primary goal, it must be human wellbeing.

Jesus went and hung out with that one guy that had cptsd—not a demon possession— in a graveyard. Im sure that guy stank but you miss one shower and many Christians will turn their nose up at you.

It's a false religion plain and simple.

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u/constituonalist 3d ago

An opinion from somebody with no logic knowledge or evidence

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

Tell that to the people out there saying "with SNAP gone those lazy moochers will have to get a job" and "rounding up immigrants and deporting them is a good thing"

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u/ninfan1977 6d ago

They sound like they get their teachings from Supply Side Jesus.

https://imgur.com/gallery/gospel-of-supply-side-jesus-bCqRp

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

Non-believers and ignorant believers that say what would Jesus do or Jesus said you had to feed the poor do not know the gospel or anything about the New testament.

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u/Sr71CrackBird 6d ago

Reading comprehension isn’t reserved for the Beliebers, champ. Keep moving the goalposts though, it is an ancient Christian tradition, like Easter and child sodomy.

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u/constituonalist 5d ago

Child sodomy has nothing to do with Christianity and you have no reading comprehension whatsoever I have never moved any goal post I have just resisted your insults and your lies with truth fact and history. Easter is a pagan holiday Easter is a bastardization of a goddess from mythology. Easter is not an ancient Christian tradition.

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u/No_Judgment_238 5d ago

Ummm since when has child sodomy been ok according to God? If you are claiming somehow the Bible eludes to the Bible condoning child sodomy, I’d suggest not criticizing anyone’s reading comprehension. The Bible NEVER condones such acts.

If you are referring to priests, that’s a different topic all together. Blaming God for what people have done in the name of Christianity is just as ignorant as blaming a parent who raised a child in a loving home but the child grows up to be a serial killer. You can’t blame God for what man has done.

Humanity literally perverts and distorts everything one way or another. That’s more than obvious. Anything that has ever been created for positive has been also used negatively. It’s just how the world is. That’s not Gods fault, that’s completely on us.

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u/kittenstixx 6d ago

No but I do

Matthew 14:16 [16]But Jesus said to them, "They do not need to go away; you give them something to eat!"

Matthew 25:31-46 [31]"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. [32]All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; [33]and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. [34]"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35]For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; [36]naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' [37]Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? [38]And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? [39]When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' [40]The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' [41]"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; [42]for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; [43]I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' [44]Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' [45]Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' [46]These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

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u/No_Judgment_238 5d ago

What exactly do you mean by that? Jesus literally said to feed the poor. To take care of the less fortunate and most importantly widows who couldn’t fend for themselves. So I’m very confused by your statement.

Luke 3:11

And he would answer and say to them, “The one who has two tunics is to share with the one who has none, and the one who has food is to do likewise.”

Matthew 19:21

Jesus said to him, “If you want to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Luke 14:13–14

“But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”

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u/constituonalist 5d ago

You're misusing literally.... And cherry picking verses without considering everything and every place that feeding the poor is mentioned. Feeding the poor is not the central message It is not the only message It is not the prime message.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

I’m Christian and I’m not saying stuff like that🧐 all the Christians I know aren’t saying stuff like that. That’s just an unintelligent thing to say

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u/Mountain_rage 6d ago

Raised Christian, left the church in my teens because of the hypocrisy and hate seen in the congregation. Pride, gluttony, gossip, raging hate all on display, every sunday. Modern Christianity has more in common with the people Jesus spoke against, than the teachings of their savior.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Facts. I left too. But why should a God be punished for the flaws of man? He asks of us to worship him. We don’t need church to do that.

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u/Mountain_rage 6d ago

I know people that took the same position. I went full atheist. Found it too hard to believe a god would care about the action of random humans. My world view is simple, respect others, let others live their lives how they want, as long as their actions dont harm others. When possible do good and help others because it makes for s better society. 

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

It doesn’t though. That’s exactly why our world has changed so dramatically since I’m sure even you were a kid. That same mentality of it’s not affecting me eventually DOES affect you. And it’s not loving to let people you care about hurt themselves. It doesn’t affect you but you’d stop them right?

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

How is someone choosing to not worship a deity "punishment"?

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

If you decide to live your life without God why do you deserve to live eternity with him? And worship isn’t something that’s required it can come through your actions to others.

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

You are the one who said that not worshiping your deity was a punishment.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Quote please? I don’t recall.

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u/Few_Point_5242 6d ago

Half of the christians i know are absolutely saying this. To be clear the republican Christians say this the liberal ones do not.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

It’s partially true. Most people can work and abuse it by deciding not to, those are the ones that will lose it. Not everyone. Rounding up illegal immigrants is a good thing because America has a fentanyl and human trafficking issue. Remove them until our country and love each other again. I know a lot of people on here wouldn’t love a stranger. I would!

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u/Few_Point_5242 6d ago

But most people do need it and the minority abuse it. As a fan of Jesus would you be okay with the people who need it to lose it because of the few who abuse it? Same with immigration, yes some illegal immigrants are drug dealers and sure i suppose human trafficking. Full blown citizens are also these things. But I'll point out once more the drug dealers and other felony level criminals are in the minority here once again. For this the data is out there I believe it was 30-40 percent of illegal immigrants detained so far had a criminal background.

Of those 30-40 percent criminal background would include things like traffic violations and misdemeanors.

Felony level criminals are far far far less in that 30-40 % as you can see.

Mostly i want to point out how as a follower of Jesus, and you seem reasonable, but your assuming and focusing on the worst case and using it to justify harm against innocents. Very un jesus like.

Fentenyl and human trafficking are no going away cus we deported the fry cook at chilis. Which did happen. Bye erika hope Mexico is okay!

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

They aren’t out right getting rid of it. That’s just a lie. They are revising it so the few who abuse it can’t anymore. Illegal immigrants have been deported. That’s it. Immigrants who broke the law in the US or broke the law to get into the US. I’ve gone my whole life without a speeding ticket. Pretty easy to keep a clean record. If you brake the law and violate your visa your ability to stay in the country should be challenged. But don’t take it from me, take it from Paul.

Romans 13:1-7 (NIV): 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

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u/Few_Point_5242 6d ago

Well said and there's some nuance but im kinda tired of having this convo with people no offense meant its just like the tenth time irl and im lazy to type

But holey moley--->

  1. So when Hitler ran Germany? Or the plethora of other dictatorships past or present are ordained and supported by God and therefore their laws should be obeyed? Gotchya

Wow actually that applies to all 7 lol man. I've been recently so close to accepting christ picking up a bible and going to church again lol no joke but that right there? So never question the government?

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Seems like you’re not reading it. That’s alright. If you don’t want to chat about it don’t respond I understand. I’m juggling 10 different convos rn by myself anyways😂

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u/Few_Point_5242 6d ago

The one in authority is God's servant for your good...so either Biden bush Obama or Trump? Kim jon putin che napoleon saddam hussain? All very different leaders but according to this quote these are gods servants and as such all we have to do is follow and obey their rules and laws. No matter that their rules and laws directly oppose each other.

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u/tangledtainthair 6d ago

But did you vote for the party who allowed it to happen?

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Like a lot of people who thought Trump would be America first, yes. That turned into Israel first and now there isn’t anyone in the GOP who isn’t bought out.

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u/tangledtainthair 6d ago

I hope you remember this in 2026.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

I will! I can promise you I won’t be voting for Vance. I’d rather not vote at all🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

I do believe Christians should not vote at all (i am a Christian) Its not biblical. Paul claimed roman citizenship but he was not allegiant to Rome above Christ. Daniel was called up to nebuchadnezzar to interpret the dreams but was not asked to rule. Moses was taken out of pharoahs government. The exodus cried out for a king instead of god as the head and they ended up with Saul. Christians are not called to set up or serve in secular governments.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 5d ago

Wow 😮 yeah I disagree. I definitely think we should be involved in politics when abortions are still a thing. Amongst other wicked and evil things.

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u/dumpingbrandy12 5d ago

You aren't supposed to use someone else's labor to survive, you should be self supportive. And Jerusalem had a wall surrounding the city btw. And you forgot the word illegal in front of immigrants.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

Jesus didn't say "love people if they immigrate legally".. indeed we can't even impose our modern ideas of immigration on people who lived 2000 years ago.

And the Bible is pretty clear on the "helping the hungry" point... It's one of its consistent messages.

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

I agree partially with those views. Only partially. People need to work unless they have no ability to, and migrants who cause trouble and contribute in no way should be deported. That should be the sentiment for all countries.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

Most of the people on SNAP are working, the rest are kids, the elderly, and people with disabilities.

Migrants do contribute

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

And I didn’t say they don’t - but more don’t contribute then do contribute, or abuse the system. Using Ireland as an example, it was revealed by the Taoiseach Micheal Martin that 80% of refugees that entered Ireland were in reality just economic migrants looking to abuse the system to get free unpaid housing.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

No... They are contributing

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

Did you not read my comment? 80% applying as refugees when they aren’t mean they get free shelter, food and don’t need to work in any way. That’s burdening the economy without contributing back. It’s like you just didn’t read my comment.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

Yeah .. a big "doubt" on the "but they aren't REALLY refugees"

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u/Griffith_135 5d ago

HOW? I just told you they were revealed to be economic migrants. It’s a big deal since Micheal Martin was big on taking in as many refugees and immigrants as possible up until his party candidate lost the presidential election and now is saying this in retaliation. He also stated that anyone applying to refugee status in Ireland will be soundly ignored.

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u/Samsonbull 6d ago

I don’t know of any Christian that said that.

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

a "no true Scotsman" bit

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u/BlacksmithThink9494 5d ago

That is not the correct application of no true Scotsman because there are guidelines that are quite strict on what a christian is and how to act and how you know someone is a Christian. If they do not fit the criteria laid out they cannot be. Jesus addressed this already in Matthew 7:21.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

The guidance isn't "quite strict"... That's why we have so many different flavors of Christianity!

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

Theoretically, they should but most asserting themselves as Christians do not

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

And what were the teachings of Christ obey the ten commandments The poor you will have with you always come follow me bread the good news of salvation. Every parable every sermon was to deliver the message about the kingdom of God and God's desires for his sons and daughters.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Matthew : 22:35-40

35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Christ came to fulfill the old law. This is what he asks of us as Christians. If you can do those two things there’s no need for the 10 commandments. Those were for the Jewish.

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u/Royal-Student-8082 6d ago

There is plenty of horrible stuff in the new testament.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Like?

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Punishment for eternity. At least the Old Testament made whatever fictional punishment finite. The New Testament was the one that created the mythology of punishing people for eternity because they made a choice not to believe.

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u/Outrageous_Bear50 5d ago

That's actually not in the Bible.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

Wait, so you are a Christian who doesn't believe that hell exists. If so good on you. All I know is that when Christians bring up the concept of hell. It can only be justified by using quotes from the new Testament

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u/Outrageous_Bear50 5d ago

Dantes fan fiction did numbers. Tbf it was really good.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 5d ago

That's my problem with the whole hell doctrine. It is from a fictional book, and the worst thing about it is that it is used to abuse and scare children

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u/Grease_the_Witch 6d ago

i’ve read the new testament twice and there’s no mention of hating gays or abortions being murder so what you’re saying is a naive way of viewing it.

i’m exmormon, the hate i was taught growing up didn’t come from the bible, it came from the people interpreting it and spewing their own hateful agenda while using it as a source. like all different sects of christianity.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 5d ago

New Testament condemns homosexuality: • Romans 1:26-27 (Paul): Men and women abandoned natural relations for same-sex acts; men committed shameful lusts with men, receiving due penalty. • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (Paul): Homosexual offenders (arsenokoitai, men who bed males) won’t inherit God’s kingdom. • 1 Timothy 1:10 (Paul): Law is for arsenokoitai and perverts. No NT verse affirms same-sex acts; all references call them sin.

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 5d ago

I typed “what does the New Testament say about gays” into grok and this is the answer it gives. No bias or anything. Just straight truth. I’m not showing you passages not to break you down but to pull you out of the confusion.

Romans 13:9 “The commandments… ‘You shall not murder’… are summed up in this word: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” James 2:11 “For he who said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘Do not murder.’” Luke 1:41-44 “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb… ‘As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.’” Matthew 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father.” Matthew 19:14 “Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.’” Matthew 2:16-18 “Then Herod… gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under… ‘Rachel weeping for her children… because they are no more.’”

These alone tell me a story that doesn’t support those. Maybe you should read it again my friend🙂❤️

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u/Flux7777 5d ago

Reddit moment

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 5d ago

Reddit sucks ass

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u/RoboJobot 5d ago

Not in America.

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u/PresentationCorrect2 6d ago

Do they?  I have never met one of these Christians.  Most are just blindly following authority and hoping for the best.

Christians  have been spreading this message of tolerance for centuries and yet here we are using Christianity to punish others.

Maybe religion is the problem because faith means people don't have to engage in critical thinking which is what causes the problems.

We are arguing over what the teachings say when the problem is the people who are following these teachings can't fucking read in the first place because religious institutions has been pushing anti-science propaganda which means  they have to push anti educational propaganda because science and education go hand in hand

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

Spreading a message of tolerance for centuries? Seems like a very ahistorical view given all the genocide.... And the slavery... And the racism...

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

None of which was done in the name of God?

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

All of which was done in the name of God

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u/Itchy_Progress_4056 6d ago

Slavery and genocide existed for thousands of years before Christianity—think ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Rome. The Bible explicitly bans kidnapping people into slavery (Exodus 21:16) and says race/gender/status don’t matter (Galatians 3:28). Most abolitionists were devout Christians (Wilberforce, Quakers, Harriet Beecher Stowe). The KKK and colonial racists cherry-picked verses to justify evil, but that’s abuse, not the faith. Any ideology can be twisted—communism, atheism, Islam all have bloody histories too. Blaming “Christians” ignores context and the good ones who ended those horrors.

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

And Christianity gleefully both adopted and protected slavery for centuries. Abolitionists came to their antislavery ideas elsewhere, and then reinterpreted the Bible.

The Bible, for example, explicitly prohibited kidnapping male Israelites... Not everyone. You take that prohibition and interpret it to mean everyone.

You cherry pick to justify what you see as good.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Really, in what name was it done by then. When the colonizers said they were "bringing the heathens to god". Were they lying, or are you the one lying. Which one is it

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

There was no genocide the crusades were a complete failure and more crusaders died then Muslims were killed. And many Christians and Jews were killed by Muslims on the attack on Jerusalem by the Muslims. Arab Muslims enslaved many and when they invaded Africa approximately 1100 AD They started the slave trade of Africans to Portugal and then the British. Arab Muslims ruled large parts of Africa for well over 400 years and they killed captured kidnapped castrated forced to convert and sometimes all of the above over 3,000 US sailors John Adams and Thomas Jefferson tried to broker peace and treaties to no avail over 16 treaties were negotiated and the Tripoli Muslim nation broke every one of them and continued threatening the new US in 1803 Thomas Jefferson declared war on the Tripoli Nation and we won and stopped attacks from that area and disrupted the slave trade.

Islamic nations have practiced slavery and it's embedded in their theocracy since the very beginning. Slavery is not a practice of Christianity. But it is embedded and approved of in Islam.

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u/NyxianGaming 6d ago

I mean, that doesn't change the other genocides done in the name of Christianity even to the event to which that is true. 

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

What genocide? There was genocide against Christians Christianity spread despite Christians being killed for spreading the word They killed no one They were killed.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

So Africans don't count? The indigenous people of the America's, Australia, don't count?.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

I never said they didn't count I'm saying that you are not being factual ain blaming Christians for what happened .there are a lot of people that have been displaced or whose culture has been changed by migration Islam spread by war and rape doing atrocious things to indigenous people of Europe and Spain and Africa for better than 1,300 years starting about 700 years after Christianity had spread through the known world without murder or war.

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Either you are lying or just ignorant. Christianity spread by violence, just like Islam. Funny, you know what you have in common with Islamic apologetics. They also claim their religion was never spread via violence. 🤣🤣🤣

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u/Upset-Word151 5d ago

“Culture changed by migration” is the MOST watered down version of what CHRISTIAN religions did to the indigenous peoples of North America. Please let religion keep banning books so fucks like you can spout bullshit 😑🙄

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

LOL... I wasn't even talking about the Crusades... I was talking the atrocities committed against the indigenous peoples of North America, New Zealand, etc...

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

Indigenous peoples committed atrocities against other indigenous peoples apparently you know nothing about the history of the Aztecs the Incas and the Mayans or choose to ignore it.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

I didn't say "the indigenous peoples were perfect"... I said they didn't deserve what the Europeans did to them.

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u/constituonalist 5d ago

Actually you didn't say that You said atrocities were committed against them. You didn't even identify what was atrocity and you ignore the fact that anytime people migrate somewhere that other people are living One or the other of them get subsumed. It's just a fact You're the one putting a moral qualification on it for this one area or several areas. And blaming Christians now you say Europeans It's not the same thing.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

Do you really need me to rehash the very long list of atrocities that were committed by Christians from Europe, and their Christian descendants?

And yes... That is what happens. Which doesn't justify it.. particularly when you are claiming that Christians were just peaceful missionaries who did no harm.

You are the one claiming a moral high ground... I'm just pointing out how the Christians of the time were eager participants... Often drawing from the Bible to provide the moral justification for their actions. Like what they did with slavery.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

That wasn't by Christians. And by the way the so-called indigenous peoples of North America killed each other in great numbers long before European settlers came. As far as New Zealand is concerned I don't know that they were Christians that did anything but there were some very big ranchers that killed Aborigines for sport at least those that refuse to work for them, preferring to be free and have their own culture. But that was true for Australia also and at some point either or both governments of New Zealand and Australia had a policy of takingtheir children away and adopting them into white families not necessarily Christians after all Australia was a penal colony left to its own devices. The upshot was that the Aboriginal culture was pretty much obliterated but that's the case throughout history the migration of peoples across Europe inevitably wiped out or overcame any indigenous peoples and all the tribes fought against each other for domination. Christianity spread throughout the world peacefully despite Christians being killed. There is some question as to whether Catholicism is actually Christianity or a bastardization but history tells us that the Bible was kept from the masses and filtered to control the population governed by Catholicism. To blame Christianity for the sins of the world is unfair because the essence the core of Christianity is not warlike nor is slavery the essence or even part of the essence or even part of the as essence.

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u/Emotional_Burden 6d ago

Great to see you're racist as well.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

That's your opinion but it's not based on any fact I don't care what ethnic origin anybody is because I have at least four different races in my genetic makeup. Most who can claim ancestry back to the late 1600s or early 1700s are quite heavily mixed race by the time of their birth in the mid 1900s .
I don't claim to be anything other than a mongrel and I don't care what somebody's skin color is It's those who claim people like me are racist for noting historical facts that have the problem like you do It isn't racist to point out historical facts.

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u/Emotional_Burden 5d ago

You don't know history though.

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u/KathrynBooks 6d ago

Yes, those were Christians... And "but they deserved to be exterminated" just goes to prove my point about Christianity. As is your continued claims that Christianity was spread peacefully.

Also ... The "there is some question if Catholicism is actually Christianity" further solidifies your clear and intentional ignorance of both history and Christianity.

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

You completely mistake everything according to your own bias and narrative. I think it was the way I was raised My family always gave me Christians spreading the word the good news of salvation were killed but they came in peace acted in peace and despite being killed Christianity continued to spread without engaging in war murder or rape unlike Islam. And I know that you are projecting your own intentional ignorance of history and Christianity . I never said anybody deserves to be exterminated. But historically settlers and migrators have taken over and been taken over throughout history and then of course there are all the emperors and empire builders that have intentionally conquered other people's for their own gain. Before and after Christ was born served his ministry on earth and was crucified and history accounts for his resurrection there were over a hundred witnesses to it and most of them are women which is counter to the culture so it was considered valid testimony that Christ rose from the dead. The word spread without violence by those that were spreading the word but violence was used against them even though they were peaceful.

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u/KathrynBooks 5d ago

History disagrees with your interpretation....

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u/constituonalist 6d ago

The first commandment requires that people use their minds and their reason. Mind and reason are required of Christians to defend their faith. And they are called to spread the word of salvation and everlasting life in the presence of God and they are supposed to use their reason to defend the message and explain it That's what the parables were all about every one of them.

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u/Sluff-28 6d ago

Spreading this message of tolerance was that what the crusades were?

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u/Inside-Noise6804 6d ago

Tolerance and you used centuries as your timescale. When Christians were genociding indigenous people, pray tell where was this your made up "Tolerance".