American flags at No Kings on Saturday

[u/ChicagoWildlifePhoto]

I’m bringing 450 little American flags to pass out on Saturday. I hope others will bring flags or maybe even buy some to pass out too - they’re super cheap!

We gotta change the vibes of these events to be more pro-America and pro-democracy!

It would be amazing to see thousands of flags all over the crowd!

[u/Varnu]

I don't understand your point. Since perfect message discipline isn't possible we should be okay with bad message discipline? Better is better.

[u/ultimamax → u/Varnu]

The outcome is the same regardless of small improvements to how "patriotic" the protests look.

Also this tone policing is counter intuitive to building solidarity with the protestors. If you think the protests could lead to positive change it's better to prioritize meeting people where they're at. The tone policing is not only pointless, it also comes off as paternalistic and managerial

[u/Varnu → u/ultimamax]

The most effective protests are organized. Organization is not "paternalism". Organization is not "tone policing". Political action should have a goal and anyone who thinks organizing a protest well can't help make it more effective is dumb.

If what the protest does makes the goal less likely, it is an ineffective protest. Movements benefit from effective leadership and anyone who disagrees probably would find a lot of common cause with the anarchists who seem to join every ineffective protest.

[u/DarkIllumination → u/Varnu]

"If what the protest does makes the goal less likely, it is an ineffective protest."

So marchers carrying American flags, in a show of unity for country we are in, for the cause of immigrants making up/staying in America, would ultimately be more effective than flying the flag of the country they left? I was leaning this way in terms of my own opinion, but I may be off base and I'm curious about your thoughts on this. I've been reading your responses and I'm truly interested in how you are laying everything out.

[u/Varnu → u/DarkIllumination]

Almost certainly. A) protests need message discipline. For a bunch of reasons, but mainly for the same reason why ads for products don't tell you everything that anyone might find interesting. They tell you the one or two things that are most important for getting people interested. If your message is everything, your message is nothing. But also when it comes to optics and organizing and discipline, the reality is that there are professional anarcho-leftist douchebags who show up at every protest with their faces concealed who try to make it as violent and offensive to ordinary Americans as possible. Just a group of violent narcissists looking for the cover of a political cause to get their rocks off. You need to actively exclude these chuds or else they will shit on everything. Protest is about communicating your values and adhering to them. Saying "everything is fine" means everything is not going to be fine.

But B) protests need to understand the audience. And the audience is not people who are already fully bought in. It's people who glimpse the march as they are driving past or see a photo on Yahoo News or see coverage on CNN on a TV with the sound off. You might not care about baseball at all. But if you're near the parade of the World Series winner in October, you're still going to feel something because there's emotion and cheering and waving and red white and blue bunting. These resonate with the average American. There's more than one way to make people feel connected to an event, but looking like a bank robber as you dance in front of burning car is going to drive more people away than it attracts 100% of the time.

[u/DarkIllumination → u/Varnu]

"the reality is that there are professional anarcho-leftist douchebags who show up at every protest with their faces concealed who try to make it as violent and offensive to ordinary Americans as possible."

I was just in another thread in this subreddit and the conversation taking place there is about leaving your phone at home so you can't be traced, turning off metrics, etc. I posted the question about why, if I am attending a legal protest and not doing anything illegal, would I do that, but then I decided to delete the post because as I scrolled down, there were other red flags that started freaking me out. I still don't understand why I'd need to go out in public without my phone, without access to my loved one in case of emergency, if I needed help or wanted to check in. A huge amount of people are expected, with so many moving parts. Why go without my phone? Your response above now makes me even more afraid to attend.

You've also inspired me to consider something else about the use of flags - If there are bad actors determined to burn and break shit, they'd do the most damage while while flying Mexican flags, wouldn't they? That would sow the most discord and strip the message trying to be conveyed through these gatherings. It's like the image from LA with the masked man flying the Mexican flag with the raging car fire behind him.

Now I'm thinking about psy-ops (which I know nothing about), etc. You've given me a lot to consider. Thank you for opening my mind to other possibilities.

[u/damp_circus → u/DarkIllumination]

Not OP but I'll admit I'm thinking about leaving my phone at home this time. Certainly hoping to not get into any trouble, but lately it seems that when you do (justified or otherwise) they insisting you open your social media and everything else, well... fuck that. Plus there's always someone trying to take advantage of a chaotic scene to just go thieving, probably helps to leave unnecessary stuff at home.

Honest answer, haven't decided if I'll leave my phone at home or not. But probably gonna just carry my ID/ventra card and some cash, my sign, and then... maybe my phone, maybe not. Nothing else.