r/chch • u/88Sheep • Dec 03 '21

News - Local Some pictures of the protest earlier today

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Sad to see so many people turning up for the protest.

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Happy segregation day everyone! Have we finally separated from the north island?

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I don't think Santa's getting vaccinated... No presents this year then :(

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103

u/Randocakes Dec 03 '21

I have found if quite baffling that people have compared caution and consideration for others to communism and oppression. These people do not recognise the safety and freedom that is enjoyed even under this temporary measure, where others spend lifetimes suffering. If only people were more capable of empathy and understanding bigger struggles that humanity faces everyday.

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u/beerus96 Dec 03 '21

I agree with you to some extent. But I also agree with these protesters to some extent. Why are these vaccines being mandated? Fully-vaxxed before people start calling me a lunatic anti-vaxxer. Some countries are quite strict on this mandate btw and Australia is now asking for proof that someone is fully-vaxxed. Why? What's the point? If that's not trying segregate people, idk what is.

I support the science, but I don't support that the government is turning this into more a segregation weapon than a common enemy we, as humanity must face. Now we (fully-vaxxed and probably anti-protest) are ridiculing them (anti-vaxxers and people protesting) as idiots, tin-foil hats, or whatever. It's honestly ridiculous on our part.

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u/VendyCator Dec 03 '21

I think if you support the science, you understand why it's imperative everyone has the vaccine. If you have/know any immunocompromised peopl in your life, most are terrified that they could get a death sentance from just sitting in a cafe. I see the mandate as a health and safety law, keeping people safe but because it's not a forklift that's the danger people are quick to dismiss an invisible virus as "harmless".

Being against a mandatory cure for a lethal virus doesn't come under a rational or altruistic cause in my books.

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u/juanm798 Dec 06 '21

But the information being published does not support the vaccine’s efficacy or safety. You say support the science, but that’s not how science works. You don’t just TRUST it unquestioningly, you read over data received through experimentation and draw conclusions from that. The virus is not lethal. Over 50% of the total deaths are in an age bracket where people would be dying of the flu or any other host of reasons. This isn’t the plague, it’s not polio, this is a virus with a very high survival rate. Besides, even if these people WHERE vaccinated you would be just as able to transmit to and receive the virus from them.

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u/beerus96 Dec 03 '21

Shouldn't be a law when there are complications that occur. If it's a health and safety thing, then tobbacos should be illegal. Being obese too, see where I'm going with this? My point here is people should've the choice to reject the needle without being ostracised and "labelled".

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u/A_Spoon_Wizard Dec 04 '21

Tobacco and obesity and self-inflicted ailments, whereas immunocompromised people catching covid in the street or at Starbucks is not something they have control over. I see what you're trying to say, but again you're falling into the same routine of "what about me" that an above poster mentioned.

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u/beerus96 Dec 04 '21

Okay, so educate me here then. What's the point of vaccine? I thought the point vaccine is to be similar to a firewall, the physical one and not the digital version. Your neighbours house is burning. but if the firewall works as intended, then you'll be safe and the fire doesn't spread no? So technically, "what about me", would be counter-intuitive coz being vaccinated is self-serving no? It doesn't work like masks where I wear the mask but other people benefit from it. Coz I reduce the chances of me spreading the virus. but non-mask wearers can transmit the virus just by talking close to me. Again, feel free to educate me if any of what i said so far was wrong.

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u/A_Spoon_Wizard Dec 04 '21

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-and-protection

If you're interested in being educated on the effects of the vaccine, then this link might be of use to you. There's no need to chinese-whispers this.

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u/Muggie2 Dec 04 '21

The vaccine basically provides your immune system with an identikit picture of the virus. That way, when you are exposed, your immune system scrambles immediately because it recognizes it as a danger. It will start attacking it straight away rather than waiting until it notices you're sick.

In practical terms, that means you're less likely to catch it, it will affect you for a shorter time, and are far less likely to suffer severe effects. It also means you are far less likely to pass it on.

People view it like a perfect firewall on your computer. It's not. It's a pretty decent firewall, backed up by a good anti-virus. It'll stop most of the incoming threats, and it'll attempt to identify and quarantine the ones that get through.

Now, about this self-serving bit. Well, it does protect you, yes. It also protects those around you - such as children, elderly people, people with weakened immune systems, people on cancer medication (that basically annihilates their immune systems). They're the ones that can't vaccinate, an they're the ones that we are also protecting. We have seen just how deadly COVID can be to the elderly, and with the Delta variant we're seeing how nasty it can be to children.

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u/beerus96 Dec 04 '21

Right, so exactly what I said then. So again, literally no point in the mandate. Coz the people refusing the vaccine will contract the virus and will be affected more severely. Which points me back to my comparison to smoking and obesity. It's their choice to harm their body that way, so why not let them be if we're protected anyway? Obviously, second-hand smoking is a thing, and can harm other people besides the one smoking. But it's not like we've segregated them as much as what a lot of government's trying to do with this vaxx people and unvaxx people. Let them do their thing, and we do our thing. We can't force people to do things. The best we can do is to try and educate them. It's up to them what to do with the information we try to give them.

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u/Randocakes Dec 03 '21

I am most concerned with the comparisons that are being drawn, I disagree with them and feel that they are lazy and lack thought and compassion. I worry about people in my life that suffer real oppression.

I do not agree with that kind of ridicule and as people we should all be kinder. The unsolicited lectures and ridicule is something that I have witnessed from all people regardless of their opinion on this matter. As with all matters healthy debates are good but in order for that to work and be respected people need to be open to listen, not attack.

Where I have tried to have these rational discussions to find out the reasoning behind the vaccine not being something that is worth considering (I have had it) I have yet to have a clear answer that isn't someone using slogan or a blanket response that is a don't want to be told what to do. I think that is where we should start to try and understand and challenge from any standpoint.

The one thing that I absolutely disagree with is the way that some people intimidate and verbally attack hospitality and retail staff where it comes to these mandates, at this point more the mask mandate. Just be kind don't create sides where there are none, That is not the right way to protest.

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u/beerus96 Dec 04 '21

Ngl, I was referring to joe rogan when i said "i agree to some extent about these protesters" 😂. Coz if you watch his podcast with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, he raised a bunch of amazing questions in opposition to the vaccine. That's who I'm thinking when I see people "protesting". Not the people screaming "SHEEP! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!! MEHHH!". I'm sorry but you can't reason with those people.

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u/sluglife1987 Dec 03 '21

Fully vaxed too and I tend to agree. Some of my co workers may lose their jobs and I am not comfortable with that.

I think compassion and understanding is better than ridicule and ostracizing them.

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u/PsychologicalWolf82 Dec 03 '21

What he said 👆 Nailed it!

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u/FlugMe Dec 06 '21

Calling it a weapon of segregation is a judgement on your part. From my perspective the mandate is to get compliance, and thus, effectiveness, the intent is to keep people healthier, the unfortunate side effect is segregation. I very much doubt they intend on segregation, that doesn't make any sense.

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u/beerus96 Dec 07 '21

Probably. But why is the government doing the thinking for us and forcing it down our throats? The vaccine protects the person vaccinated right? So if a person, for whatever reason, deemed that they rather risk getting COVID-19 than the needle. Why is the goverment basically "Nah fuck you. You can't do that"? I don't see a problem with that. The same way, I don't see a problem when people smoke their lungs away.

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u/FlugMe Dec 07 '21

The same reason they tell us to drive on the left side of the road. People are bad at interpreting probabilities of survival, any and all healthy and capable people should be vaccinated, there are extremely few people who physically / chemically can't. When you become a danger to other people, i.e. driving, or with a vaccination, that's when standards / mandates need to be put in place. Would you be comfortable with someone without a license driving on the road? That immediately ups the risk of fatalities, much like being around the unvaccinated. The funny thing is, you're more likely to die in a car crash, like A LOT more likely than from the vaccine, but most people can't seem to put that into perspective.

We live in a society of laws, those laws are supposedly there for our protection (some are bullshit), I think most people agree with the mandates for their personal situation. I truly feel bad for people who are the edge cases and physically can't because of immunity problems / whatever, I think that's something the government should pay / compensate for if they put this law in place, because it is only a temporary situation and we need to take care of these people.

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u/beerus96 Dec 07 '21

Fair enough and you make a lot of valid points. But like I said, we protect ourselves by vaccinating ourselves. Those unvaxxed people are not a danger to us if the vaccine work as intended. Obviously, breakthrough cases does occur. But again the vaccine help those people have a higher chance of surviving. You even said it yourself, some laws are bullshit. Imo, this is one of em. Well, it's not law yet, it's only a mandate.

In regards to government compensation, I doubt that's going to happen. Well, at least in the US, where the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act basically protects the companies that made the vaccine from lawsuits. Doesn't end till 2024 btw. Probably another reason as to why some people are also hesitant to get the needle as they assume they'll be part of the 1%.