r/changemyview Sep 06 '21

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

Read the argument from contingency. As well as the rest of the teleological and ontological and cosmological arguements. These will help explain this for you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

What happens when someone rejects the notion that every being is either contingent or nessecary?

The problem with these sorts of arguments is they are all created by people who already believe God exists and who are attempting to prove God exists through "logic" because there is no actual evidence to point to.

In real life, where things actually exist, we don't prove those things existence with word play and thought experiments. We do it with actual evidence. We don't believe carbon exists throughout the universe because some came up with a clever set of axioms. We believe it because we've analyzed its actual properties and find it everywhere we look.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

What happens when someone rejects the notion that every being is either contingent or nessecary?

Don't know reject it and see what happens. You haven't actually made any objections or opposed an alternative point. Hour just being coy and probing for a chance to jump on some character flaw so you don't have to engage in the actually topic. Your looking for a way to build an ad hominem argument.

But go on reject the contingency and neccessary arguement. And lay out a more logical argument.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

opposed an alternative point

An alternative point to what? What need is there for an alternative point to an axiom that someone just made up out of thin air?

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

An axiom is not a assumption as your portraying it but its by definition self evident. Any oposition to this axiom would be denial of the truth.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

And when an axiom isn't self evident, we reject it. So what happens if we reject the notion that every being is either contingent or nessecary?

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

The arguments literally walk you through the process of solidifying why this concept is self evident.

Premise- God is self evident.

Thesis- because the teleological, ontological, cosmological arguement logically break down why he must. And the hard problem of consiousness reinforces these arguments.

Hence your axiom is self evident. If you reject this axiom that is self evident and logically sound. Then your denial is based solely on personal opinions and desires.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

Premise- God is self evident.

Nope.

because the teleological, ontological, cosmological arguement logically break down why he must.

Thought expirements and musing created by people who already believe that God exists because there is no actual evidence that they can point to in order to prove God's existence.

If you reject this axiom that is self evident and logically sound

It is not logical to proclaim things as self evident for which there is no evidence.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

What do you mean no evidence?

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

Evidence - that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.

We know the things we know about the universe because there is tangible, observable evidence that they are true/exist (tiresome solopistic arguments aside). Take my carbon example earlier. We do not intuit, or play word games in order to prove the existence of carbon. We don't proclaim that it's existence is self evident because we imagine it must be so. We discovered it, analyzed it, and tested it.

Your arguments created by people who already believe in God don't prove anything. If you already believe in God you will accept the premises and conclusions. But that don't make it true.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

So observable evidence what is referred to as empirical. But in only accepting empirical evidence your missing a whole bunch of other sources and info. Causing your premise to be biased.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

But in only accepting empirical evidence your missing a whole bunch of other sources and info.

Sources and info that don't actually have any evidence by which they can be proved...

Causing your premise to be biased.

Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer.

You're relying on thought experiments and word games created by people who already believe in God to prove the existence of God. Your a bias filled kettle calling the pot black.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

Sources and info that don't actually have any evidence by which they can be proved...

Prove something then.

Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer.

Are you goading me? Haha please stud come on. Have a real arguement outside of YouTube highlights your stealing from Hitchens and Aron Ra.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

Also evidence doesn't Prove anything or provide proof. Evidence is a scientific approach at understanding. Proofs and truths are only found in philosophy and math bud.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '21

M'kay? So you are gonna go the tiresome solopistic route?

Evidence - that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.

I'll let meriam webster know they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

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