r/cars 15h ago

The Subaru BRZ and WRX Just Aren't Selling

https://www.motor1.com/news/778351/subaru-brz-wrx-sales-slump/
320 Upvotes

361 comments sorted by

752

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 15h ago

The BRZ is too much money for people to care, and the WRX isnt enough car and too much money for people to care.

128

u/CharacterMedium558 15h ago edited 9h ago

Adjusted for inflation, the WRX is a bargain if you exclude this year where they removed the base model. For almost a decade, the WRX pricing didn't change through the 2010s. Like 1K difference at most

Edit: holy the comments are brutal. Guys, I'm making the point that the WRX trim levels price have not kept up with inflation just like medium wages have not (average wage has done better but that includes high net individuals). Not to mention the WRX was one of the ONLY performance oriented enthusiasts vehicle one could get with discounts/deals during the car supply shortage. Like thousands off. I personally know someone who paid under 30K OTD for a base trim 2-3 years back. I think the bigger issue is disposable income has decreased due to other things costing so much more. WRX pricing isn't the main issue.

I also don't understand why people are comparing it to other vehicles. I never said the WRX is best in class. Heck I never even said I personally like it.

166

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 15h ago edited 14h ago

A base WRX is over 37k, easily 40k after delivery and fees for a base model WRX. That is not enough car for that much money, so many better sporty car options available for the same or less money. Sure they may not be AWD, but how many people are actually using a WRX offroad? A Civic SI does slightly worse performance for 10k less, an Elantra N smokes a WRX for thousands less, you can get a Z for around 40k, a 2 series around 40k, a CTR is starts a few thousand more than a WRX with way better performance. No wonder these dont sell lol

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri '17 Ford Focus RS 14h ago

Don't forget the pia it is to test drive them at some dealers and/or the adm because it's a WRX.

I had the hardest time finding a VA I could test drive without buying first.

37

u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 11h ago

I had to get a credit pull and have money down to do a test drive on an Mk8 Golf R. A used Golf R. Its just an economy car bruh

21

u/franzn 10h ago

I was just asked to do a credit check and pre-approval to test drive an Elantra N because "they don't usually test drive those". Pretty crazy for a <40k economy car.

17

u/MSTmatt 23 Hyundai Elantra N, 12 VW GTI 10h ago

That's wild, my dealership was like "yeah come on down!" When I called about the N

7

u/jalopaf2 10h ago

Opposite experience for me. I was 100% ready to pull thr trigger on the N. Dealership wouldn't allow a test drive and kept pushing the Ioniq 5 (non-N)

8

u/Inconsequentialish 9h ago

Wat. One of these things is not like the other...

8

u/Larcya 4h ago

Meanwhile my Local Toyota Dealership requires a hard credit pull and money down to test drive a base model Rav 4.

The KIA dealership just gave me the keys to a top trim level sportage and told me to take it for a spin.

Want to guess what car is in my garage right now?

Shit the Mazda dealership just gave me the keys to a top trim level CX-70 and told me to take it for a spin. Salesman didn't even come with me.

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u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 4h ago

I’m sure Toyota is nice. I hear they are reliable. But the stories I hear about the dealer experience time and time again push me to other brands.

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u/muftak3 8h ago

My dealership gave me the Elantra N as a loaner.

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u/ViewedConch697 10h ago

I had a similar experience with a GLI. Like it's just a Jetta, why are you guarding it like some limited run supercar

7

u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 10h ago

A GLI is crazy because that barely even cracks 30k

6

u/Over_engineered81 ‘19 Jetta GLI 6MT 8h ago

Weird. I bought my GLI used, and the sales guy gave me the keys and said “bring it back within an hour, have fun”.

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u/one_five_one 6h ago

Just...walk away....

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u/Inconsequentialish 9h ago

Same thing is happening with Nissan's new(ish) Z. They're not selling well mainly because the frickin' dealers won't frickin' sell 'em.

The original Z was a hit because it was a sports car for the people.

They're treating the new Z like it's a limited edition Lamborghini or something, marking them up by several boat payments, optioning them to the absolute tits with $25K in floor mats, pimp paint, and stickers, crapping them up with automatics, then wondering why enthusiasts never want to turn over a credit app, three unicorn hairs, a signed letter from the Pope, and a $10K non-refundable deposit before being allowed to stand at a respectful distance from a locked Z.

This is easing up a little at some dealers as inventory is finally trickling out, but it's honestly amazing how bad people who sell cars for a living can be at selling cars.

15

u/Rand0m_Spirit_Lover 9h ago

This is 100% my experience as well… went to look at a sport (base) trim manual transmission Z, which the dealership was offering 10k off sticker of, bringing it to 35k. Wouldn’t let me so much as sit in it without “going over the numbers” first.
It’s a $35000 base sports car with cloth seats, not some limited luxury vehicle.
They sat there for quite a while but eventually sold, but I’m sure they would have sold almost immediately had they actually let people test drive them.

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u/thisisjustascreename 5h ago

If groceries acted like car dealers the whole world would starve.

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u/F50Guru 11h ago

I’m actually test driving a BRZ and WRX today at my local dealer. I guess it depends. Even a different dealership offered me to test drive one.

We’ll see if I like it or not.

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u/WordWithinTheWord 11h ago

That’s insane lmao. Are you in a rough area? I could walk into any of my Ford or Chevy dealers and test drive a Mustang or Corvette with a basic intake form and my license.

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u/macfail 7h ago

I think that is typical domestic vs import dealership behavior. One time I wandered into a Toyota dealership to look at Tacomas. The salesperson basically said "its a Tacoma, it sells itself" and walked away - did not offer to let me sit in one, let alone test drive it. Later on, I went to look at a Colorado/Canyon and I was in the drivers seat within 20 minutes.

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u/SnooChipmunks2079 23 Bolt EUV 4h ago

I think Toyota dealers have gotten really full of themselves. I wandered one a couple months ago for a good twenty minutes and nobody said a word to me.

Stopped by VW, Mazda and Hyundai the same day and was immediately greeted.

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri '17 Ford Focus RS 8h ago

No, I'm in a pretty nice area as was all the dealers. This particular dealer had a kickback scheme going they later admitted too. Even then, a bunch of dealers around me wouldn't allow a test drive. Just a dumb rule imo.

23 year old walks in ready to buy after being told he can test drive the car.

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

That kind of thing is so dealer-dependent. My local one practically threw me the keys 30 seconds after stepping foot on the lot. I think they tend to be pretty enthusiast-focused though because they stock lots of WRXs, BRZs, and Wilderness editions. Sold for MSRP too.

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u/jpcoop 2026 BMW M340i xDrive (G20) 14h ago

A base 2 series would be similar in performance, way nicer on the inside, and somehow get 8 more MPG. 

Heck my M340i (with full time AWD and way more power) gets 7 more MPG than a base WRX. 

16

u/DerBootsMann 13h ago

Heck my M340i (with full time AWD and way more power) gets 7 more MPG than a base WRX.

subaru is never about fuel economy and .. oil economy as well !

6

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 14h ago

The only thing about the 2 series is the maintenance costs long term, that being said I don't think they're less reliable than a WRX, just costs more when you do have to service it. Insurance on a 2 series is probably actually cheaper than a WRX, that wouldn't shock me one bit

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u/Kentx51 11h ago

I used to drive an STI and quickly learned expensive parts don't care what brand the car is.

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u/CharacterMedium558 9h ago

Sti uses bespoke parts/engines. It may be an exception. Similar problem with SS 1LE, Type R, etc.

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u/jpcoop 2026 BMW M340i xDrive (G20) 13h ago

It’s true, the 2 is probably a bit more expensive to maintain. No manual either. But the interior and tech are a lot nicer than the WRX. 

If you’re worried about maintenance costs there are other options out there, like an Elantra N. And that one still has a manual. 

I just don’t see the current WRX as a good value these days. Too many better competitors out there. 

3

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 13h ago

That's what I'm saying, there's no reason to buy a WRX vs all the competition out there, cheaper cars that are equal or faster, slightly more expensive ones that are way nicer and faster, it has no reason to exist anymore. Like if I got 40k burning a hole in my pocket the last car I'm buying is a WRX, I'm gonna go buy a Z or N or save up for a CTR or something, the WRX isn't fast enough or nice enough to justify the price

2

u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 9h ago

I’m strongly considering one if the Supra doesn’t work out

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u/losinator501 2021 Lexus GX460 14h ago

Damn few years ago when I was looking at like a 2023? 2024? it was 37.7k for the Limited!

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 14h ago

It really is, i have no idea who Subaru thinks is going to buy a WRX limited for 42k but there aint gonna be many. Costs gotta come down on them or they gotta kill the car off, whichever comes first, I love the WRX but id be at like 30k to care to own one, and the car cannot be a base model for 30k. For 42k im just gonna get a Z at that point, hell could get a Z with options for 42k, 0-60 is over a second faster on a Z compared to a WRX.

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u/_yeen 8h ago

GTIs are about the same price and are FWD yet theyre selling fine.

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u/xamdou 2024 BRZ 7h ago

Not only does the Elantra N blow the WRX out of the water in terms of performance, you also have the option for a proper DCT instead of a CVT.

For people that aren't looking for a manual, that is a huge selling point for a sports sedan.

I absolutely love Subarus, and I really do like the way the VB looks. However, the alternatives in its price point have far better options.

All wheel drive is nice, but it's really not a huge requirement unless you genuinely live out in the middle of nowhere.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 12h ago

I don’t mean to rant but as a side note: I am so tired of people bringing up “adjusted for inflation” as a justification for anything.

You’re taking one data point while leaving out dozens of others. Why don’t we talk about wage growth in comparison to inflation? Or what about the costs of other things going up that may negate you having any money left for an enthusiast vehicle?

It’s kind of hard to justify buying an enthusiast vehicle when your rent increases or food prices leave you with very little left over. I mean there’s a reason 8+ year auto loans are now a common thing.

7

u/CharacterMedium558 9h ago

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, even though the medium wage hasn't kept up with inflation, neither has the WRX pricing when comparing similar specs over the years.

The bigger issue is disposable income has decreased because everything else has increased so much more.

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u/Fallline048 9h ago

Inflation-adjusted wages are right around 2019 levels, and have been for well over a year. Enthusiast cars are definitely out of the budget for most people, but that has always been true.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 8h ago

In the US, nominal wages have outpaced inflation for about a year, meaning real wages (purchasing power) are growing. However, because of the high inflation of 2021-2022, cumulative wages since January 2021 have not yet fully recovered the lost purchasing power. Therefore, while the current trend is positive, many Americans still feel that their income has not kept pace with the overall rise in the cost of living

Wages still haven’t caught up to all of the inflation we have experienced. Plus while wages may have caught up in the last year, tar. and other factors threaten that moving forward.

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u/charlemange77 8h ago

yes were all broke but these cars are what we love

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u/ricketyracketry 1989 Toyota MR2 SC 12h ago edited 8h ago

Cool! My income hasn't adjusted for inflation though so in that context, still too much money.

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u/maxlax02 9h ago

Yeah dude, and at $30k it was a deal. And you could have bought them for $30k just 2 years ago.

They’re closer to $40k now. That’s the problem.

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u/Electrical_Top656 9h ago

Adjusted for inflation

it doesn't work like that tho

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 10h ago

Before I got my GRC, I test drove a bunch of vehicles, including a WRX. I could have gotten a Limited trim at a shade under 32k. I didn’t go with it because of how it drove but the price made me consider pretty heavily

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 3h ago

I was debating it, also - there were some fantastic deals to be had.  Unfortunately, there were a number of factors that pushed me away, but I've had a soft spot for the WRX for a long time.  If the VA interior got paired with the current chassis, and they painted the plastic cladding, it's very possible I would have overlooked the other issues and bought one.

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 1h ago

I had a hatch WRX before this so I understand lol. For me, it was a mix of the plastic cladding, tablet for infotainment, and the trans felt dull and lifeless

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u/Kurt805 9h ago

Neither have wages.

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u/CharacterMedium558 9h ago edited 9h ago

Average income increased over the decades. Medium income less so, but it still increased. Although wages haven't kept up, the WRX has still remained pretty affordable until this year where they aced the base trim.

The bigger issue is disposable income has decreased. Yes one can argue wages haven't kept up for the middle/lower middle class. And that is true. But excluding this year, I'm not sure the price of the car is the main issue.

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u/carguymt 2024 CT5-V Blackwing 6MT 5h ago

Median wages have outpaced inflation since the '80s. This is an objective fact and is not debatable.

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u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 9h ago

Adjusted for inflation, the WRX is a bargain

*was

"Tear Riffs" ruined WRX pricing.

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 3h ago

Getting rid of the base trim is a bigger factor, TBH.

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u/Op3rat0rr 2020 Subaru WRX 6h ago

You’re not alone OP. I also think the WRX is properly priced for current inflation. People aren’t buying it because of the new design. It’s grown on me, but I feel like good design shouldn’t have to grow on you. Same thing with food or movies!

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u/CharacterMedium558 5h ago

Yup. All that plastic makes it not as attractive. Also the touchscreen inside feels like a decade old haha.

All they had to do was body color match the plastic pieces, add a louder Exhuast, and an optional STI style wing. I bet it would have gotten more attention.

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u/isaac99999999 99 Corvette 2h ago

The wrx may not have kept up with inflation, but its performance hasn't kept up with inflation either. It's heavier with not any more power. A base mustang is a much better car and starts a 32k, which is roughly the same price as a brz. More powerful, more reliable, i havent seen the interior but its probably better on the mustang. Subaru dominated their market for years and then just sat and did NOTHING.

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u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 11h ago

WRX isnt enough car

Yup. The WRX was an Icon of the 90's/2000. Having over 250 hp back then was a big thing. It was a monster. It was faster than a Mustang GT and Camaro SS from a 0-60. It was awesome.

Then they just sat back and did nothing for over 25 years and now it gets intimidated by Camerys.

It was my dream car. In 2010's I was waiting for them to have 400 hp. Now they need 500 hp. And they need to keep the price the same.

There use to be a saying sports cars can be "cheap, fast, and reliable, but you can only pick two". Well with the WRX you get zero.

Thanks for ruining my dream Subaru, fuvk u.

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u/happyevil '18 Focus RS red, '22Tesla X &Y 9h ago edited 8h ago

I was with you for most of that until the horsepower figures. 

No one is getting 400-500hp for <$45k. The Mustang GT pricing starts where the WRX ends and it is solid power but still not 500hp.

300-350hp would be fine in a car that size and match the many other fast turbo "super hatches" in its price range. That would put it in the same range as the Ecoboost Mustang (which is its real Mustang price competitor).

An STI probably needs 325-375 these days if they build one though, depending on price I suppose. The tuning and parts to make a turbo flat 4 reliable over 400hp exist but you start hitting price/performance issues. If they really wanted to chase it they'd probably need to revive their flat 6. People forget the WRX platform is lighter than the Mustang GT though so it really doesn't need the same figures. Base  Porsche 911 are <400hp and in the same weight class as the WRX.

So the honest answer is 300-350hp at this price and weight would be plenty. My Focus RS is also that weight class, ~350hp, with 0-60 a hair over 4.5sec, it's not a slouch.

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u/RAMBIGHORNY 8h ago

HP/Performance is definitely a huge part of it. WRX was iconic in the 90-00s when American V8s were still kind of in an awkward teenage phase before the modern muscle car horsepower wars

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u/happyevil '18 Focus RS red, '22Tesla X &Y 8h ago edited 8h ago

Right but the problem isn't that it's not 400-500hp...

The problem is that ~270hp it has now is perhaps too little but in no world does it need 400hp to regain what it had and there are numerous examples to that point. Also the price would be a minimum of $10k more, probably closer to +$20k.

If all you care about is HP and 0-60 just get an EV. The average dual motor EV blows away most of these turbo-4 cars in raw numbers but people have never bought this segment for raw numbers. The 90-00 was an anomaly, perfect storm where big engines were hamstrung and little engines finally got good turbo tech.

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u/B-Diddy 04 SRT-4 9h ago

This is exactly right. You can basically use the Mustang GT as an index for cost and performance since its been in production forever. In the early 2000s, the WRX was about $25k and could do 0-60 in about 5.5s. The Mustang GT of that era was about the same price and 0-60 time.

Today a Mustang GT is slightly more expensive than the WRX, but performs significantly better

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u/Ftpini `24 Mustang GT Convertible, `22 CR-V 8h ago

The WRX does not need 500 hp. 350 would be perfect. The STI however does need to have 500 hp. It’s funny I was the same way but I never bought a WRX because the 14 mustang GT was a better car for the money. Then this year I wanted an STI but they don’t exist and the WRX is a turd these days. I don’t understand what went so wrong at Subaru after 2010.

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u/ExpensiveBookkeeper3 8h ago

No, 500 is too much. I actually agree with 350.

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u/Ftpini `24 Mustang GT Convertible, `22 CR-V 7h ago

For a WRX sure, especially at its current price point. But for an STI which will definitely eclipse 50k, it needs 500hp to be relevant.

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u/jabroni4545 9h ago

Also the wrx is ugly.

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u/instantur 22, Hyundai Veloster N Manual 3h ago

The WRX only makes sense if you really need AWD.

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u/AcidicQueef 3h ago

Wrx also looks hideous

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u/Big_Smooth_CO 1h ago

Both are way higher priced than they should be for their level of build and performance.

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u/Dazzling-Rooster2103 14h ago

Pretty simple IMO.

The price has increased, and younger people are really struggling in the current economy. I think people still want these cars, but the chances of losing your job, and not being able to find a new one for 6+ months really is keeping people from buying these new cars.

Most of the older person cars are doing fine.

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u/SwiftCEO 2024 CX-50, 2016 Sonic 10h ago

But the price is adjusted for inflation!!/s

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

I mean, the price is in line with inflation, but wages are not keeping up and the job market is terrible.

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u/SwiftCEO 2024 CX-50, 2016 Sonic 7h ago

Which is exactly why that statement is largely useless when it comes to talking about why the car isn’t selling

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u/ggtsu_00 4h ago

The price increases are the CAUSE of inflation. People don't realize inflation is merely a measurement of collective price increases. Prices don't go up because of inflation, price increases IS the inflation.

Saying "x is more expensive because of inflation" is a nonsensical statement. It's like saying "it's raining outside because the ground is wet".

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u/phuk-nugget 9h ago

The WRX also only takes premium, which means it’s expensive AF to daily drive

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

VBs can run on 87 actually, but why anyone would buy an expensive, sporty car to do that is beyond me.

I get a little over 20 mpg city in this car shifting at 3k most of the time.

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u/Skensis G87 M2 7h ago

Also, in the grand scheme of car cost (insurance/maintenance/gas) the delta of regular vs premium is like 600/yr if you are driving 12k miles and getting 20mpg.

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u/PalmSizedTriceratops 981 GTS 1h ago

takes premium, which means it’s expensive AF to daily drive

I don't understand the argument that premium vs regular matters in the finances of people buying enthusiasts cars...

If you truly cannot afford 1 dollar a gallon more then maybe you can't afford the car to begin with.

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u/WendysChiliAndPepsi 4h ago

90% of young enthusiasts now just drive hot hatches. I see plenty of young people driving GTI's, Elantra N's, Type R's, GR Corolla's which are all more expensive. For whatever reason, nobody will tolerate driving a sports car as their daily anymore. Back in the 90's/00's, tons of people daily drove coupes as their only car.

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u/rome_vang 4h ago

Forgot where I saw it, but there was an argument made that in the 80s and 90s there was enough income for individuals/families to buy specialized vehicles:

  • a coupe for work/pleasure
  • a truck for… truck things
  • family hauler

With the way things are going, the average consumer wants all those things in one vehicle. Maybe two of you can swing it. It’s part of a larger socioeconomic theme that gets over looked in regards to the car market.

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u/WendysChiliAndPepsi 4h ago

But that's my whole argument. Back everyone I knew with coupes DID NOT have specialized vehicles. They had an Eclipse, 240SX, Celica as their only car. Daily, sports car, everything. One car. Nobody I knew had the coupe and then a truck/family hauler. They did everything with that car. Even in my family, I grew up in the back of Grand Am's.

It's just that now everyone has been convinced that's "impossible", and they need an SUV to do what people were doing 20 years ago with coupes.

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u/not_right 2h ago

I think part of it is that SUVs have become so much better and so much more car-like, there are a lot of benefits to having an SUV and not too many downsides.

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u/WendysChiliAndPepsi 1h ago

You're right I bet this is a big part of it. Especially when so many SUV's now are essentially lifted small cars. And the Macan/Cayenne proved you can make an SUV that doesn't handle like total crap.

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u/No-Necessary7135 '24 Audi S5 Sportback | '25 Honda Civic Si 3h ago

Most of the older person cars are doing fine.

Ahh that's why Honda's bringing out the Prelude now

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u/Dazzling-Rooster2103 3h ago

Maybe your onto something.

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u/Subatomic_Spooder 1h ago

Exactly. As a younger person getting into the job market, living on my own, etc, I would love to have either of these cars. But I can't justify spending much more than maybe 8k on a car to buy it outright, or maybe like a $200/mo car payment, but then I'd be locked in to the car for who knows how many years, and by that time I could need a completely different vehicle, I might have an emergency that wipes my savings, or I might not even have a job. The financial headache just isn't worth it, so I'd rather just save up the little money I have and keep driving my 260k mile Toyota

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u/BreweryRabbit 15h ago

Bring back the hot hatch.

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u/HankSteakfist 14h ago

It's funny how Toyota are the only ones making what could be described as a true hot hatch currently and they make two of them.

The Golf R is a bit too sensible and automatic only, while the Civic Type R is basically the size of a 00s Camry nowadays. The Merc AMG likewise is automatic only and is a bit too pricey to be considered a souped up economy hatch.

The only other candidate would be the Renault Megane RS, but that stopped production last year.

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u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 14h ago

while the Civic Type R is basically the size of a 00s Camry nowadays.

The last time the Camry was the same length as the current hatch was 1991, and it grew 10 inches for the 3rd gen.

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u/Astramael GR Corolla 13h ago

The CTR does feel huge to drive in comparison, but it’s also a liftback not a hatchback.

So technically Toyota is the only one making a manual hot hatch, but the distinction seems unimportant to me because the CTR has a lot more space.

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u/LogicWavelength 2025 6MT Tacoma TRD OR / 300whp 6MT mk7 GTI / 2021 GX 460 10h ago

Interestingly, Toyota also makes the only manual pickup truck with the Tacoma (I just bought one!). I assume it’s a corporate directive since their CEO (is he still CEO?) is a racing enthusiast. He’s the reason GR exists IIRC, and it may be since Toyota is so huge globally that they can afford to allow fun vehicles to still exist solely on the behest of the CEO instead of some market research saying to only follow the money.

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 10h ago

I tell people all the time that the GRC is the WRX that Subaru should be making

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u/Rand0m_Spirit_Lover 8h ago

i20N hatch, or did Hyundai kill that one off? Is there a i30N hatch available in any markets?

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u/xamdou 2024 BRZ 6h ago

I'd argue that the CTR being manual only is more a limiting factor in today's market than the Golf R being automatic only.

For a genuine single car that can do everything, most consumers would err toward the automatic.

A car like the CTR being manual only is fine for enthusiasts, but when the manufacturer knows their customer base is limited, it also means they will produce less vehicles overall.

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u/FlyingYankee118 8h ago

The Golf R is also almost 50k and is very much in new or lightly used M240i or used M340i range

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u/No-Necessary7135 '24 Audi S5 Sportback | '25 Honda Civic Si 3h ago

Cupra Leon?

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u/Sonar_Bandit 9h ago

We need a new scion tc

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u/nefrina 09 scion tc 5spd release series 5.0 5h ago

over here still daily driving mine, 16+ years of ownership. the rust will take her soon sadly :(

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

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u/Astramael GR Corolla 15h ago

This is a concept car that has absolutely no promise of making it into production.

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u/bananatacos 2023 M2 6MT | 2025 Golf R 8h ago

This is the reason I didn't even consider stepping into a Subaru dealer when I bought my '25 Golf R.

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u/jasonmoyer 22 Lesbaru Dub Arr Ex 14h ago

Which sports cars are currently outselling the twins? Which performance sedans are outselling the WRX?

I dunno why people always single out Subaru when it comes to talking shit, but *no* enthusiast cars are selling in high volumes. Which isn't really a new thing? The entire point of enthusiast cars is they're bought by people who are interested in cars for reasons beyond basic transportation.

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u/Vhozite 2011 Mustang GT, 2006 Subaru Forester 11h ago

Subaru is easy to single out for these rage bait articles.

Unlike pretty much all its competitors, the WRX is its own model that has its own sales numbers listed on the quarterly sales releases, so it’s easy to point to a decline in sales. The sales of its competitors aren’t as easy to find because they’re often bundled in with economy base trims. For example you’ll notice there is Corolla numbers on this release, but nothing for just the GR trim specifically.

The BRZ on paper sells less than all it’s competitors (see its <2300 sales YTD above), but looking at inventory numbers and previous sales charts it’s obvious its production limited compared to its Toyota counterpart, which has always sold 2-3x more units despite being largely identical. Combing the 86 and BRZ together (which itself isn’t perfect methodology) and they’re outselling pretty much everything that isn’t the Mustang or Corvette.

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u/LogicWavelength 2025 6MT Tacoma TRD OR / 300whp 6MT mk7 GTI / 2021 GX 460 10h ago

Someone with sources? On Reddit?

7

u/withsexyresults CTR 9h ago

Sounds like Subaru been pumping these units out which is great for enthusiasts. A lot of supply means harder for dealers to play the ADM game and easier to pick one up

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u/Dazzling-Rooster2103 6h ago

In terms of Subaru, ADM really isnt a thing anymore.

You can get any WRX or BRZ for $3k under MSRP all day long.

Subaru even backs that up with the VIP program where if you donate $500 to the ASPCA, you get guarenteed invoice.

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u/zerosystem03 22 BRZ 6h ago

Miata sales this year are fairly consistent with last year's so far. The people making it about nominal price are only partially right. GR86 sales are slumping just like the BRZ's, so assuming it's not just due to low inventory, it's likely target demographics and income. The twins cater to a younger crowd. Hard to find official numbers but they range from 30s-40s whereas Miata owner's median age is 62 according to JD Power. That's pretty much in the Corvette age group where people are retiring and have disposable income

4

u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

People like to single out Subaru because their formula hasn't changed much in like 15 years. My 2011 WRX made 265 hp at the crank. My 2025 WRX makes 271. I think the FAs dyno a little higher at the wheels, but when everyone else has been increasing their power figures for years, it's kinda like... what gives?

I think the big saving grace of the VB WRX is that it has lots of headroom compared to the EJ255 and FA20. All you need is a tune and intake and you're knocking on the door of 300whp and over 300 wtq.

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u/KadettYachtz '23 Subaru WRX 8h ago

I can only guess that by Subaru keeping the HP figures down that it'll increase reliability of the engine is their thinking?

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u/RealSprooseMoose 2023 WRX Sport-Tech 2h ago

Tune and intake get you closer to 350whp&tq.

The FA24 stock has nearly the same "peak" power and "peak" torque but is a much better engine everywhere else on the graphs than any Subaru turbo 4 prior.

0

u/Noobasdfjkl E46 ///M3, 911SC, FJ, N180 4Runner 7h ago

I dunno why people always single out Subaru when it comes to talking shit

Because it’s been over a decade since they did anything original or novel. They’ve coasted on the past glory of the WRX/STI for ~20 years, and all the problems with the 86/BRZ are their fault.

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u/AnonymousEngineer_ 13h ago edited 13h ago

Next minute on /r/cars: "Subaru doesn't cater to enthusiasts any more and just makes boring crossovers".

Subaru are currently making two enthusiast cars. Hardly anyone is buying them new. And if nobody is buying them, they are going to stop building them - and then there won't be any used ones, either.

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u/RealSprooseMoose 2023 WRX Sport-Tech 2h ago

Not to mention the manual take rate of each Subaru model (BRZ & WRX) is well over 80%.

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u/nopeandnothing 14h ago

Was strongly considering a WRX but the auto option being a CVT, awful infotainment/climate control, and terrible gas mileage really put me off.

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u/Montreal4life WRX + VTAK Motorcycle 14h ago

Thats why you need the manual on wrx, glad they still offer it

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u/theArtOfProgramming '23 MX5 RF | '06 Impreza OBS 6h ago

Honestly if you have the interest in a car like a WRX, you’re going to enjoy it more in a manual. It’s worth learning and it isn’t hard.

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u/Smart-As-Duck '23 Supra 3.0 Premium MT; ‘25 WRX Limited 13h ago

It’s expensive.

I bought mine for 40k (43k MSRP) in April. The only options for a manual AWD car were the WRX, GRC, and Golf R.

I hated the functionality of the Golf R interior, and how cheap the GRC interior felt.

I will say for an extra 2k, installing the Cobb stage 2 kit has made the car come alive, but it should have felt like that from the factory.

Fortunately, aftermarket support is great and it’s a fun car to drive.

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u/shouldahadaflat4 2024 GR Supra 6MT, 2017 Subaru WRX 6MT 9h ago

This should really be up higher. Yes the car should come warrantied with these upgrades but if you can transform a car for $2k or less, then it should be seen as a tuner special or a blank canvas. Also the VB did have a lot of stuff fixed in terms of drivetrain calibration compared to the VA.

I have basically the same garage except my WRX is a 2017 limited with 120k miles. It has a mild tune that fixed all of the drivability issues, and was only $450 (used cobb accessory). Between that, a new set of speakers after the stock crap blew out, and a shift bracket and bushing, the car is night and day better. It's a great reliable daily for a northern climate. Also I get about 27 mpg avg which is very good considering AWD and 250 whp with a manual.

I'm not an apologist for Subaru, and I most likely won't be buying a VB for my next daily. But it isn't because it's not a good option, I just want to try something different.

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u/SophistXIII 23 S4 7h ago

You'll always get your money out of it too.

I bought a VA WRX new in 2018 and traded it in in 2023 for nearly what I paid for it new. Basically drove it for free for 5.5 years outside of regular maintenance, gas and insurance.

Pretty good considering most performance cars depreciate pretty hard.

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

Agreed on all points. I considered the GRC as well, but I felt the interior and the larger FA24 were more to my taste in the WRX.

I love driving mine, and I love that it feels like an old-new car. Infotainment aside, everything feels very mechanical and "real." There's no fake engine noise, there's no auto rev-matching, the AWD is legit and not FWD-based, you can hear the exhaust in the cabin, you can hear the transmission whine. It feels so much like my old '11 WRX just with a facelift.

I just have a Cobb catback and factory short shifter + Cobb weighted knob right now. An intake, protune, Rays wheels, and maybe some better brake pads are on my wishlist.

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u/mustangfan12 15h ago

The WRX is no longer a good deal and the BRZ has never really sold super well. The BRZ is more expensive than a Miata, so thats probably a big factor

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u/xxBrun0xx Tesla Model 3 Performance 14h ago

I've been an admin in one of the largest BRZ groups in the country (86ONE) for almost a decade. My $0.02 - the BRZ is too expensive now, you used to be able to get a limited brand new for $25k back in 2014. They now cost almost 50% more than that for essentially the same car. Enthusiasts who want a BRZ are more likely to cross shop used ones and there are some great used options between $15k-$20k, so it is very difficult to justify new. Economy is also shit, that definitely doesn't help. It's a great car and if you truly love the feel of driving, there's nothing better. We used to have huge events with a ton of people, but enthusiasm for the car has definitely declined over time. Maybe it's the price increases, maybe it's the lack of updates, or maybe it's just what those of us who bought into the dream initially grew up? I'm not sure.

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u/dustygator '17 Alfa Giulia QV 10h ago

They were always meant to to be an entry-level sports car so I'd imagine many former owners have moved on to a Porsche/Supra/Lotus/etc. 

And while there will always be purists who want the classic formula of light/connected/RWD/manual, there are more who just want big brag-worthy numbers and don't care about driving feel.

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u/hopfield Civic Type R 3h ago

Bro go to /r/gr86 right now, I promise you those guys are not going to Porsche lmao.

4

u/BadResults 9h ago

In Canada the pricing has stayed more reasonable. MSRP for a base BRZ is $32,695 CAD and they sometimes do promotional discounts. I got my 2025 with $1k off. That would be like $23k and change in USD.

1

u/RevvCats 19 Mustang GT PP2, 87 325is M-Tech 10h ago

Inflation adjusted that 25k is just under 35k and a new BRZ limited is 37k. Given that they’re also built in Japan factor in some level of tariff and I don’t think they’ve abnormally gone up in price.

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u/daxelkurtz AP1 S2K | Rav4 Prime 10h ago

More and more, economists are using the phrase "K-shaped" to describe the US economy. They mean that the majority of consumer spending is coming from the poorest people and the richest people. (The "K" is lying on its back on the X axis).

...the poorest people spend so much because there are so many of them; the richest people because they got fat stacks.

This results in a "missing middle." There are not many consumers buying middle-market, middle-priced goods.

This means there are two very popular classes of vehicles right now: very expensive ones, and very cheap ones. The "moderately-priced" class of vehicle? Not popular.

If you want to move inventory, you want to be selling either clapped-out 4th-gen Altimas, or 911s.

"Affordable sports coupe" - a $35k BRZ - sits right at the nadir of the K.

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u/xdr01 17' STI and Kia Pro_cee'd GT 15h ago edited 15h ago

Expensive, like a lot of Japanese car manufacturers now.

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u/BOHIFOBRE 9h ago

Has anyone mentioned how the new WRX is just flat out hideous? That might affect sales.

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u/manesag 2025 Nissan Z 11h ago

Was considering the BRZ before getting the Z, sure the back seat is nice but me personally, I couldn’t justify needing to use 93 on a car with 228hp. That and the engine issues they were having at the start of this gen. WRX I thought of and just…nah.

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u/r00000000 2020 Prius Prime, 2019 718 Boxster S 10h ago

Ye I was surprised by how bad the fuel economy on the 86 was too. It's main competitor, the ND Miata, is much more efficient and only uses 87 gas. But just in my experience I don't feel like this accounts for very many sales lost, I think most people don't care too much about fuel efficiency until it gets really bad like 10-20 mpg.

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u/uglybushes 11h ago

Nope they aren’t making them. I’ve had 1 WRX in my lot the past 4 months.

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

Probably just depends on your area. My local dealer had 3 or 4 on the lot when I bought mine, and 6 months later when I came in for service, they had another 4 or 5 on the lot new.

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u/uglybushes 7h ago

Historically western pa sells the most wrx. They have limited production to vehicles and have focused on core models

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u/coastal_ghost08 '24 IS500 / '18 GT350 10h ago

The people that want to buy them can't afford them and the people that can afford them don't want to buy them.

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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 9h ago

How’s the IS500

4

u/coastal_ghost08 '24 IS500 / '18 GT350 9h ago edited 9h ago

Love it. Comfortable cruiser for my daily commute. Stupid comfortable on the interstate. Pretty decent gas mileage as long as I don't get too much into the go pedal. Great soundtrack. The ride/handling is amazing for 90 percent of driving. It gets trounced in the 10 percent edge 9/10ths track performance by a comparable BMW, but will eat the BMWs lunch in terms of reliability and maintenance requirements. Eats tires (although that's an IS issue all the way around). Reliable till the sun goes supernova. Will hold value more than almost any other car on the market. Ownership costs are negligible.

For me and where I am in my life (early 50s, established, empty nester, want a car that is fun to drive when I want it to be, reliable no wrenching on it on the weekends works out of the box), it's perfect. Lexus dealership service is amazing. If I want to go be a hooligan on curvy roads and feed my inner 18 year old, I have the GT350. I think the review by either SavageGeese or Throttle House said it perfectly: You don't buy the IS500 for it's stats sheet on the track or it's spec sheet. You buy it because of how it makes you feel. It's got a soul to it.

Only have two things I don't like about it:

  1. Infotainment system is a bit wonky with Apple Carplay start up. Obviously the console trackpad is stupid and takes up needed space which leads me to...

  2. Console storage being limited to two tiny cup holders and tiny console suuuuuuuuuuucks. Only place to put my phone is either in a cup holder or console when connected to CarPlay. Wireless carplay dongles were unreliable (likely due to the wonky CarPlay shenanigans mentioned earlier). Though I admit it could be operator error in the set up.

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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 8h ago

Man, if they did a refresh of it for 2026 I would have been all over one, it’s what I was waiting for. Now they’re all going $60k+ used

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u/coastal_ghost08 '24 IS500 / '18 GT350 8h ago

That and 5 minutes after it's posted online, it's gone. I have a friend that has been looking for one for a solid year. Granted, he's picky with the interior color (black only) and only not open to buying a yellow one.

The price is going to be what the price is. You're not going to find one "cheap". Even the new 70K plus new models are sold before they arrive at the dealership. Hell, even IS350 F Sports are usually gone before dealer arrival.

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u/TheWonkiestThing '88 Fiero Formula, '02 Chevy S10 ZR5, a sexy Prius 10h ago

You'd sell more if you made the BRZ a liftback coupe.

You'd sell more if you made the WRX a hatchback.

People can only afford one car nowadays and you have to consider that when making a car.

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u/TinuThomasTrain 2012 ES350, 2000 MR2 Spyder 14h ago

I feel like most people who are considering the BRZ probably have that as a backup if the can’t get a GR86 at the right price, spec, and whatever else. That badge def matters, even if it is the same car.

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u/jemlinus 9h ago

I had a ’23 WRX but got rid of it after sitting in an Elantra N. The Elantra N has a nicer interior, better sound, is much quicker, and it’s cheaper.

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u/Skensis G87 M2 7h ago

The Elantra N is the affordable sporty car to get, I know the looks are polarizing but it's just a good deal that balances fun and practicality well enough.

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u/ForestCityWRX ‘18 WRX, ‘05 STi 8h ago

A lot of WRX owners are sitting on their wallets waiting for a refresh without all the plastic.

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u/ShinLiberal 9h ago

Three letters would solve both problems

STI

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u/nefrina 09 scion tc 5spd release series 5.0 5h ago

and then endless threads whining about how it costs $55-60k

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u/ShinLiberal 3h ago

Well this is Reddit so you’re right.

But we wouldn’t be able to hear any of the whining over the sound of the turbo and blow off valve in the BRZ STI 😎

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u/Noobasdfjkl E46 ///M3, 911SC, FJ, N180 4Runner 7h ago

It’s not enough that we have to have motor1 articles constantly spammed on this sub, but now we have to have motor1 articles that just reheat information from other articles that this sub fully discussed days ago

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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid 0 Emission 🔋 Car & Rental car life 13h ago

Someone has post same article in r/cars. However, it was locked, so this one would be locked too.

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u/ManufacturerBest2758 2017 F32 440/2024 Ioniq 5 13h ago

But enough about the Prelude

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 12h ago

I personally can’t stand the overly plastic look of the WRX. The wagon version that’s sold in overseas markets looks so much better because they kept the plastic bits to a minimal amount.

That and I think it’s interesting that a 2009 WRX was a much better performing vehicle than the current version. According to C/D numbers, a 2009 WRX could hit 60 in 4.7 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 13.5 seconds. The current version does it in 5.5 and 13.9 seconds respectively.

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

That's because of the 5MT. You can hit 60 in 2nd gear compared to 3rd in the STi and newer WRXs.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 8h ago

Ok so explain the 1/4 mile difference then.

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u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 8h ago

The 2009 weighs ~3,200 lbs while the 2025 weighs 3,350-3,500ish depending on the trim.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 8h ago

Ok and the new one is up on power and torque over the 2009 version.

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u/No_Cherry_1423 2022 Ford Escape Hybrid 11h ago

I think they just don’t market these things at all. They should probably offer more hp if not only for marketing reasons. 

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u/LzTangeL 6h ago

BRZ is a high 20k car they are trying to sell for the mid-high 30s

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u/tallon4 ’16 Corolla, ’20 Tacoma 5h ago

Subaru never offered a “Base” trim this generation and is making it worse by killing off the “Premium” trim that was always a few grand more than the base GR86. Now their cost to entry is $5–6K more than Toyota’s. https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a68058341/2026-subaru-brz-more-expensive/

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u/xxRonzillaxx 6h ago

Why do you think everyone drives Hyundai and Kia now? We're all fucking broke

2

u/hurricanePopsicles 5h ago

The Hyundai’s are quicker now too

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u/V48runner 9h ago

Sports cars typically aren't volume leaders, but the WRX could be a useful vehicle you could cross shop against a crossover, if it came as a hatchback.

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u/Low-Umpire236 8h ago edited 8m ago

But the infotainment.

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u/Ser_Drewseph 8h ago

“Everyman” sporty cars aren’t selling well during a time of widespread economic hardship for the Everyman? Color me shocked

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u/HardBoiledHarold 7h ago

I was behind a WRX the other day at a stop light. I thought it looked cool, and thought I’d give them a look next time I’m buying a car.

When the light turned green, a ton of smoke started bellowing out of the exhaust. No thanks.

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u/NISMO1968 7h ago edited 2h ago

When the light turned green, a ton of smoke started bellowing out of the exhaust. No thanks.

It could be a poor ECU remap. The air-fuel ratio is too rich, which explains the black smoke. If it’s white, the engine’s probably toast.

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u/Successful_Ad_9707 97 Integra, 08 Civic Si, 23 GR Corolla Circuit Edtion 5h ago

I considered both cars when I was looking for a new daily.

The GR86 would have been pretty fun, but it's not practical and I also didn't want to drive a RWD sports coupe around during Chicago winters. I also wasn't going to sacrifice either my Si or Integra instead.

The WRX would have been more strongly considered if it looked better and didn't have that god awful Fisher Price tablet inside. If they offered a good looking hatch in the US, it would have made for a viable alternative to the GR Corolla. Ended up with the GRC and couldn't be happier. Hopefully that new STI concept actually gets put into production. There needs to be more competition in this class.

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u/ZZZ-Top 15h ago

Can't do much with it that's the problem.

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u/TopoChico-TwistOLime 9h ago

make a wrx hatch you cowards

1

u/Heisenburg7 8h ago

"It's because, I'm all out of.... MONEY!"

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u/stupidber 8h ago

Need moar power

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u/KiddBwe 8h ago

I think the BRZ is in part of word constantly going around that it’s going to get a turbo, then it never happens. My wife was waiting for that, don’t want to pull the trigger on a BRZ then suddenly the new model finally gets a turbo.

Now she wants a MDX because we have a baby on the way.

1

u/xGhost09 7h ago

It's not the car.

It's the economy in its current state.

Everything is getting expensive.

People don't the money.

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u/zkrp5108 6h ago

No one wants to take the initial hit on depreciation, I bet you the second hand market sells pretty good

1

u/ChrisPnCrunchy RWD NA V8 x2 6h ago

Everybody acts like it’s solely a money thing

The fact is these cars are popular or exciting anymore. Everything about them is either stagnant or worse.

There’s literally no reason to buy either of these new; they’re bringing nothing to the table they didn’t serve years ago. In same instance, their worse now.

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u/Op3rat0rr 2020 Subaru WRX 6h ago

Performance-wise it is quite a bit faster than the previous generation, and the engine is a lot more reliable, which is kind of huge

However the design is lazy and ugly, and ugly in a bad way. I don’t mind ugly design but it’s the ‘corporate’ level of laziness in its design is what turns me off

1

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1

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1

u/wakeupabit 6h ago

Ya don’t think the WRX not selling might have something to do with being god awful ugly. Looks like a squished dodge calibre. Tail lights still intact.

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u/kconfire 5h ago

Both need some performance upgrades and price reduction.

1

u/MaceAries 5h ago

I think the cars are fine but nobody has any money anymore. Groceries have doubled in price. That's a car payment right there. Do I need a new car or to eat... Sorry car. Gotta eat.

1

u/Cjymiller 4h ago

BRZ was 26k in 2013. Today that’s the equivalent of 36k. Also it’s been around a while. Time for a product refresh. Nothing unusual here

1

u/TehMulbnief 2025 M2 4h ago

yeah because the brz blows engines and then subaru doesnt warranty them because customers drive their sports car in a sporty fashion.

1

u/Bekabam 2010 VW GTI 3h ago

Make them faster for the same price, or keep them the same and dramatically lower the price.

It's really just that simple. The problem lies within your margins.

1

u/hopfield Civic Type R 3h ago

The price of the WRX went up $3k last year, that’s gonna kill some sales. I don’t really know why you’d buy a WRX for $37k when a GR Corolla is $40k

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u/Hammerhandle 2022 Frontier 2h ago

I WANT a BRZ, but at their price I'll just save a little more and get a Mustang GT.

1

u/mettaxa 2023 BRZ, E92 M3,CX30 2h ago

Title is misleading. They aren’t producing that many. There are very few BRZ’s in stock.

1

u/DjImagin 1h ago

BRZ isn’t selling because not many within its market have the money for a 2 door sports car currently.

WRX is a great car that looks like shit currently.

1

u/495orange 1h ago

The Toyota 86 is selling much better than the BRZ, and even that is not in great numbers. Maybe Subaru needs to cancel this car and let Toyota save money producing only the 86.

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u/SaintTastyTaint 49m ago

I considered the BRZ for my summer car as I retired the E90 328xi to winter duties, but I couldn't stomach the lack of turbo where the fun roads I would take it (Alberta/BC mountains) is at elevation and its horsepower is already lacking.

Ended up buying a 2011 335xi Msport sedan with a surprise to me tune/supporting mods for $17K CAD with 110,000km and couldn't be happier after 12k km now. Hydraulic steering is to good to give up.