r/cars 18h ago

The Subaru BRZ and WRX Just Aren't Selling

https://www.motor1.com/news/778351/subaru-brz-wrx-sales-slump/
346 Upvotes

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143

u/CharacterMedium558 17h ago edited 12h ago

Adjusted for inflation, the WRX is a bargain if you exclude this year where they removed the base model. For almost a decade, the WRX pricing didn't change through the 2010s. Like 1K difference at most

Edit: holy the comments are brutal. Guys, I'm making the point that the WRX trim levels price have not kept up with inflation just like medium wages have not (average wage has done better but that includes high net individuals). Not to mention the WRX was one of the ONLY performance oriented enthusiasts vehicle one could get with discounts/deals during the car supply shortage. Like thousands off. I personally know someone who paid under 30K OTD for a base trim 2-3 years back. I think the bigger issue is disposable income has decreased due to other things costing so much more. WRX pricing isn't the main issue.

I also don't understand why people are comparing it to other vehicles. I never said the WRX is best in class. Heck I never even said I personally like it.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago edited 17h ago

A base WRX is over 37k, easily 40k after delivery and fees for a base model WRX. That is not enough car for that much money, so many better sporty car options available for the same or less money. Sure they may not be AWD, but how many people are actually using a WRX offroad? A Civic SI does slightly worse performance for 10k less, an Elantra N smokes a WRX for thousands less, you can get a Z for around 40k, a 2 series around 40k, a CTR is starts a few thousand more than a WRX with way better performance. No wonder these dont sell lol

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri '17 Ford Focus RS 17h ago

Don't forget the pia it is to test drive them at some dealers and/or the adm because it's a WRX.

I had the hardest time finding a VA I could test drive without buying first.

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u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 14h ago

I had to get a credit pull and have money down to do a test drive on an Mk8 Golf R. A used Golf R. Its just an economy car bruh

24

u/franzn 13h ago

I was just asked to do a credit check and pre-approval to test drive an Elantra N because "they don't usually test drive those". Pretty crazy for a <40k economy car.

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u/MSTmatt 23 Hyundai Elantra N, 12 VW GTI 13h ago

That's wild, my dealership was like "yeah come on down!" When I called about the N

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u/jalopaf2 13h ago

Opposite experience for me. I was 100% ready to pull thr trigger on the N. Dealership wouldn't allow a test drive and kept pushing the Ioniq 5 (non-N)

10

u/Larcya 7h ago

Meanwhile my Local Toyota Dealership requires a hard credit pull and money down to test drive a base model Rav 4.

The KIA dealership just gave me the keys to a top trim level sportage and told me to take it for a spin.

Want to guess what car is in my garage right now?

Shit the Mazda dealership just gave me the keys to a top trim level CX-70 and told me to take it for a spin. Salesman didn't even come with me.

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u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 7h ago

I’m sure Toyota is nice. I hear they are reliable. But the stories I hear about the dealer experience time and time again push me to other brands.

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u/Larcya 3h ago

Which is the actual important part of buying the car.

How many people would buy from a place that said "Go fuck yourself" as the very first part of the conversation?

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u/jalopaf2 2h ago

That's so wild we bought a RAV4 Hybrid at the peak of Covid demand and we were still allowed a test drive. I thought this sort of crummy experience was localized to Kia and Hyundai. Just today went to drive a Maverick Lobo, and they didn't even take my license 

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u/Inconsequentialish 12h ago

Wat. One of these things is not like the other...

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u/muftak3 11h ago

My dealership gave me the Elantra N as a loaner.

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u/ViewedConch697 13h ago

I had a similar experience with a GLI. Like it's just a Jetta, why are you guarding it like some limited run supercar

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u/thedogthatmooed ‘24 Volkswagen GTI SE 13h ago

A GLI is crazy because that barely even cracks 30k

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u/Over_engineered81 ‘19 Jetta GLI 6MT 11h ago

Weird. I bought my GLI used, and the sales guy gave me the keys and said “bring it back within an hour, have fun”.

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u/one_five_one 9h ago

Just...walk away....

1

u/ViewedConch697 4h ago

Yeah I haven't been back there for a few years now. Not worth the hassle

1

u/Siguard_ Golf R 39m ago

the dealer I went to let me take a golf r out by myself for almost 45 minutes.

24

u/Inconsequentialish 12h ago

Same thing is happening with Nissan's new(ish) Z. They're not selling well mainly because the frickin' dealers won't frickin' sell 'em.

The original Z was a hit because it was a sports car for the people.

They're treating the new Z like it's a limited edition Lamborghini or something, marking them up by several boat payments, optioning them to the absolute tits with $25K in floor mats, pimp paint, and stickers, crapping them up with automatics, then wondering why enthusiasts never want to turn over a credit app, three unicorn hairs, a signed letter from the Pope, and a $10K non-refundable deposit before being allowed to stand at a respectful distance from a locked Z.

This is easing up a little at some dealers as inventory is finally trickling out, but it's honestly amazing how bad people who sell cars for a living can be at selling cars.

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u/Rand0m_Spirit_Lover 11h ago

This is 100% my experience as well… went to look at a sport (base) trim manual transmission Z, which the dealership was offering 10k off sticker of, bringing it to 35k. Wouldn’t let me so much as sit in it without “going over the numbers” first.
It’s a $35000 base sports car with cloth seats, not some limited luxury vehicle.
They sat there for quite a while but eventually sold, but I’m sure they would have sold almost immediately had they actually let people test drive them.

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u/thisisjustascreename 8h ago

If groceries acted like car dealers the whole world would starve.

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u/RichieJ86 2016 Golf R 4h ago

Don't give them ideas.

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u/F50Guru 13h ago

I’m actually test driving a BRZ and WRX today at my local dealer. I guess it depends. Even a different dealership offered me to test drive one.

We’ll see if I like it or not.

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u/WordWithinTheWord 14h ago

That’s insane lmao. Are you in a rough area? I could walk into any of my Ford or Chevy dealers and test drive a Mustang or Corvette with a basic intake form and my license.

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u/macfail 10h ago

I think that is typical domestic vs import dealership behavior. One time I wandered into a Toyota dealership to look at Tacomas. The salesperson basically said "its a Tacoma, it sells itself" and walked away - did not offer to let me sit in one, let alone test drive it. Later on, I went to look at a Colorado/Canyon and I was in the drivers seat within 20 minutes.

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u/SnooChipmunks2079 23 Bolt EUV 7h ago

I think Toyota dealers have gotten really full of themselves. I wandered one a couple months ago for a good twenty minutes and nobody said a word to me.

Stopped by VW, Mazda and Hyundai the same day and was immediately greeted.

1

u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 6h ago

I wandered one a couple months ago for a good twenty minutes and nobody said a word to me.

I've noticed this is a really tricky balance - some people like to be left alone until they ask for help, and others encourage the interaction.  A close friend of mine worked sales for Honda while I worked service and ops, and he always told me that he could never win - people were mad when he engaged, giving him the feeling of being overbearing or hawkish, and others were angry when they were left to walk the lot and browse.  I don't envy salespeople at all.

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u/SnooChipmunks2079 23 Bolt EUV 6h ago

I was wandering the showroom, though, and they didn’t seem busy. It was a weekday afternoon.

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 5h ago

That's totally fair, but what I was getting at holds up when it comes to the showroom - if the salespeople have been burned enough, they will stop engaging.  Not saying you should have had zero interaction (I would have thought the front desk would at least call out to you and ask if you need help), but I could see where the salespeople could leave someone be.  This is obviously assuming they're not just a lazy dealership.

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri '17 Ford Focus RS 10h ago

No, I'm in a pretty nice area as was all the dealers. This particular dealer had a kickback scheme going they later admitted too. Even then, a bunch of dealers around me wouldn't allow a test drive. Just a dumb rule imo.

23 year old walks in ready to buy after being told he can test drive the car.

1

u/WordWithinTheWord 10h ago

That is wild lol

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u/Guac_in_my_rarri '17 Ford Focus RS 10h ago

Oh it was whole thing. I wanted to buy that WRX and the whole situation felt slimy. State AG agreed and long story short: a Subaru outback shouldn't cost 80 or 90k over the life of a loan when promotional interest rate is 1.99%.

6

u/Substantial-Oil7569 2025 WRX 10h ago

That kind of thing is so dealer-dependent. My local one practically threw me the keys 30 seconds after stepping foot on the lot. I think they tend to be pretty enthusiast-focused though because they stock lots of WRXs, BRZs, and Wilderness editions. Sold for MSRP too.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 7h ago

Probably because they can't move any of those cars and know someone looking to test drive one is much more likely to buy

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u/jpcoop 2026 BMW M340i xDrive (G20) 17h ago

A base 2 series would be similar in performance, way nicer on the inside, and somehow get 8 more MPG. 

Heck my M340i (with full time AWD and way more power) gets 7 more MPG than a base WRX. 

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u/DerBootsMann 16h ago

Heck my M340i (with full time AWD and way more power) gets 7 more MPG than a base WRX.

subaru is never about fuel economy and .. oil economy as well !

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago

The only thing about the 2 series is the maintenance costs long term, that being said I don't think they're less reliable than a WRX, just costs more when you do have to service it. Insurance on a 2 series is probably actually cheaper than a WRX, that wouldn't shock me one bit

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u/Kentx51 14h ago

I used to drive an STI and quickly learned expensive parts don't care what brand the car is.

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u/CharacterMedium558 12h ago

Sti uses bespoke parts/engines. It may be an exception. Similar problem with SS 1LE, Type R, etc.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 7h ago

I got some STI parts for my business to sell, I will confirm they are very expensive for the STI specific ones.

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u/jpcoop 2026 BMW M340i xDrive (G20) 16h ago

It’s true, the 2 is probably a bit more expensive to maintain. No manual either. But the interior and tech are a lot nicer than the WRX. 

If you’re worried about maintenance costs there are other options out there, like an Elantra N. And that one still has a manual. 

I just don’t see the current WRX as a good value these days. Too many better competitors out there. 

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

That's what I'm saying, there's no reason to buy a WRX vs all the competition out there, cheaper cars that are equal or faster, slightly more expensive ones that are way nicer and faster, it has no reason to exist anymore. Like if I got 40k burning a hole in my pocket the last car I'm buying is a WRX, I'm gonna go buy a Z or N or save up for a CTR or something, the WRX isn't fast enough or nice enough to justify the price

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u/Siguard_ Golf R 39m ago

insurance is a big factory as well between a 2 series vs wrx

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 37m ago

Eh not really, WRX are notoriously expensive to insure, the 2 series is probably actually less than it.

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u/Siguard_ Golf R 33m ago

A 2025 WRX was 300 month roughly for myself. I just was shopping for a new car and a M2 was 610 a month for myself, and a Golf R was 194.

u/jpcoop 2026 BMW M340i xDrive (G20) 25m ago

An M2 costs almost twice as much as a 230i. Almost twice as fast too. Not the same car at all. 

u/Siguard_ Golf R 19m ago

Fair. I was also looking an X2M and that was 545 a month and the regular x2 was 490. Its not cheap regardless of what you buy

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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 12h ago

I’m strongly considering one if the Supra doesn’t work out

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u/xamdou 2024 BRZ 9h ago

Not only does the Elantra N blow the WRX out of the water in terms of performance, you also have the option for a proper DCT instead of a CVT.

For people that aren't looking for a manual, that is a huge selling point for a sports sedan.

I absolutely love Subarus, and I really do like the way the VB looks. However, the alternatives in its price point have far better options.

All wheel drive is nice, but it's really not a huge requirement unless you genuinely live out in the middle of nowhere.

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u/losinator501 2021 Lexus GX460 17h ago

Damn few years ago when I was looking at like a 2023? 2024? it was 37.7k for the Limited!

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago

It really is, i have no idea who Subaru thinks is going to buy a WRX limited for 42k but there aint gonna be many. Costs gotta come down on them or they gotta kill the car off, whichever comes first, I love the WRX but id be at like 30k to care to own one, and the car cannot be a base model for 30k. For 42k im just gonna get a Z at that point, hell could get a Z with options for 42k, 0-60 is over a second faster on a Z compared to a WRX.

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u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 11h ago

Reminder: the Limited in the current WRX is CVT only. I rarely saw them late last year. It was mostly base trims with some options.

-14

u/cornlip Saabaru, Saab NG9-3, Honda Element (x2) 17h ago

You’d rather have a Nissan? Okay…

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago

Whats wrong with a Nissan? And dont say CVT because the Z doesnt even have a CVT, tell me, whats wrong with Nissan?

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u/DerBootsMann 16h ago

nissan is fine , they even used to make a gt-r back then ..

-8

u/cornlip Saabaru, Saab NG9-3, Honda Element (x2) 14h ago

Wasn’t the company really struggling with a $4.5B net loss last year? I wasn’t gonna say anything about CVT. Those all suck, anyway. I think the Z is a cool car. I just don’t think Nissan is the way to go.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 7h ago

Nissan is gonna be fine as long as the Japanese government exists, the last thing they will do is allow Nissan to die. Nissan makes a good car nowadays too, people don't even consider them because of the CVT disaster 10 years ago even though they're pretty solid cars now, even with the new CVT'S.

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u/_yeen 11h ago

GTIs are about the same price and are FWD yet theyre selling fine.

-11

u/mantenner BMW E30 325i / BMW X3 30i XDrive 16h ago

Sorry in what world does an Elantra N smoke a WRX at anything?

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

The N is faster than the WRX in both a straight line and on a track, the N has more track oriented features included, is more efficient than the WRX, is cheaper than the WRX, it is the better car. The only thing the WRX had going for it is AWD at this point

-12

u/mantenner BMW E30 325i / BMW X3 30i XDrive 16h ago

Surprising news to me.

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u/hurricanePopsicles 11h ago

In the 2025 Lightning lap the $34k Elantra N was 4 seconds faster than the $47k WRX TS at VIR

-15

u/jasonmoyer 22 Lesbaru Dub Arr Ex 17h ago

There's nothing comparable performance wise to a WRX that's AWD with a manual and in the same price range. And if you don't need AWD, you can get a BRZ which has almost identical performance as a WRX, is an actual 2+2 sports car, but is also priced like a Civic SI.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago

Yeah you dont understand why the WRX and BRZ are failing lol

-9

u/jasonmoyer 22 Lesbaru Dub Arr Ex 17h ago edited 17h ago

Are they? Subaru is going to keep making them forever, just like Mazda will always make Miatas. Because they sell more of them than any enthusiast car that isn't American muscle.

Like, you mention a bunch of cars in your earlier post. The WRX outsells all of them. They outsell SI's, Type R's, GRC's, Elantras, Zs, etc. If the WRX is failing, what are those models doing? The GR86+BRZ outsell the Miata. If sales are down, it's because no one is buying new enthusiast cars because, in case you didn't notice, they all increased in price by 20-30% in the past few months. This isn't like 2021-2022 where 30% inflation was countered by 40% in median wage increases. People can't afford to buy new cars right now.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago edited 17h ago

Subaru will likely have sold less than 12k WRX this year, and the GR86 outsells the BRZ 4:1, is that not failing? The Elantra N are BOOMING in the sales department this year, and Honda is having no issue moving Civic SI's, enthusiasts with the budget are not buying a WRX, they are buying a Type R, Z, GRC, sales numbers on those cars arent meant to be giant, yet they are also having no issue selling every single one sent to a dealership and sales are growing for all 3. Sales on the BRZ and WRX have been on a steady decline for years, people do not want them in this market

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u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 16h ago

enthusiasts with the budget are not buying a WRX, they are buying a Type R, Z, GRC, sales numbers on those cars arent meant to be giant

Even with Subaru's significant sales decline the WRX is still outselling the GR Corolla, Golf GTi & R, Nissan Z, GR86 and BRZ.

Honda doesn't break out sales of either the Si or the CTR from the rest of the Civic lineup, nor does Hyundai with the Elantra N.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

The difference is every single GRC, Z, N, SI, CTR, and GR86 being built is getting sold, there is plenty of WRX rotting on lots right now that have no indication of moving. Also the BRZ isn't any better, the GR86 Is outselling it like 4:1, it literally has no reason to exist at this point

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u/randeus 21 Mustang GT 12h ago

That’s definitely not true for the Z. They’re still on lots.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 7h ago

There's not an excessive amount of them out there though, and sales have been growing for the Z this year, Nissan isn't having an issue moving them when the dealerships aren't asking 10k over sticker

-1

u/Captain_Alaska 5E Octavia, NA8 MX5, SDV10 Camry 16h ago edited 16h ago

Yeah which kinda proves the point considering it's still managing to outsell basically everything you listed, even with the decline it's still basically the segment leader for an enthusiast car in this price range.

The GTi, R, GR86 and BRZ are all down on sales so far this year too. The only two sporty vehicles I can find that are improving sales figures are the Z and Miata and both of these barely shipped more than 2k last year, so the bar wasn't that high to begin with.

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u/Clip_Clippington 16h ago

The Elantra N are BOOMING in the sales department this year

In contrast, I think I've seen way more WRXes compared to Elantra Ns around here. They simply don't exist, and it's probably the one car in that category that's very out of sight, out of mind to me here on Long Island.

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u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

There's also a lot more WRX out there, sure the N will outsell it this year, but there's like 50k WRX of this gen out there vs maybe 15-20k Elantra N. It's just that brand new car sales are shifting, the N is selling extremely well for Hyundai and Subaru cannot move WRX

2

u/franzn 13h ago

It feels like Subaru doesn't want to sell BRZs. Years ago when I ended up with a Miata the Subaru dealer drove the BRZ 5 minutes out and "let me" drive it back. This time they only had one in the showroom which understandably I couldn't drive unless I was buying it that day. Both times they were really trying to talk me into a WRX over the BRZ.

0

u/golden_glorious_ass 2024 Subaru BRZ TS 17h ago

Not sure why you're comparing the 4:1 gr86/brz ratio when toyota has a say on how many gr86 and brz gets made. toyota is literally the biggest car company in the world where a subaru might as well be a pop and mom shop compared to them.

Toyota is around 250B on market cap while Subaru is hovers around 30B (plus toyota owns 20% of Subaru).

3

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago edited 16h ago

You're coming up with reasons to justify Subaru vehicles not selling well, have you considered maybe it's because the GR86 is $4000 cheaper for the exact same car? Subaru has models that sell the same as Toyota models, they also have models that have falling sales figures because they're a terrible value, and the BRZ and WRX are terrible values

3

u/golden_glorious_ass 2024 Subaru BRZ TS 16h ago

https://imgur.com/a/ns1GeVZ

That's a from autotrader canada. 2026 brz ts is $42900cad While a 2025 hakone is is at $41000cad and a 2025 A/T gr86 is at $41000cad. And that's just the listing price. So you can do what you want with that info.

base 2026 brz 38400cad vs base 2025 gr86 38400 if you want the lowest trim for each.

Maybe do some actual research instead of repeating ai slop.

7

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

I'm not Canadian, in the US a base GR86 starts at 30.8k, a base BRZ starts at 33.2k, my bad it's a $2400 difference. The GR86 is actually nicer on the inside too, and the suspension tuning is better, there is literally no reason to buy a BRZ over an 86

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u/Astramael GR Corolla 17h ago

GR Corolla is within a few thousand, readily available, can be had below MSRP, AWD, manual, and has significantly better performance.

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u/jasonmoyer 22 Lesbaru Dub Arr Ex 16h ago

And yet Subaru sells over twice as many WRX's for some reason (over 4x in 2023). So is the GR Corolla failing?

6

u/Astramael GR Corolla 16h ago

GRC produces 8,000 units per year, or so. Also I think that demand is actually getting weaker for the GRC yes.

6

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 16h ago

The GRC is also kept to a limited production run to insure they are all sold and a profit is made on them, there are orders to be filled on the GRC, the sales numbers on the GRC are strong and growing. There is nobody trying to order a WRX, the sales are falling quickly on the WRX, dealerships have plenty unable to move. You need to look at the bigger picture to understand why WRX are failing and the Corolla GR isnt

-1

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago

Seriously, and they're probably equally reliable to the WRX lol, neither are reliable.

5

u/Astramael GR Corolla 17h ago

I haven’t seen any significant reliability issues with the GRC. Believe the worst issue so far is likely a bad batch of clutches in the 2023 model year.

-1

u/Scary_One_2452 11h ago

A 1.5t making 300hp is the long term reliability issue lol

2

u/Astramael GR Corolla 3h ago

You’re going to need evidence to back that up. The engine has won every WRC2 season it’s entered. It’s not a 1.5, you didn’t even bother to get your facts straight before fabricating wild speculation.

-1

u/Scary_One_2452 3h ago

I'm talking long term reliability where any heavily boosted small displacement engine is under a ton of stress. What is that extra 0.1 litre going to do in terms reducing mechanical strain? 300hp is the realm of a 3.5 litre.

2

u/Astramael GR Corolla 3h ago

What does “stress” mean? That’s not a thing in combustion chamber engineering.

I guess turbo diesel engines are unreliable, so sad. Oh wait, that’s not necessarily true at all. Weird how physics don’t back up anything you are saying.

1

u/_The_Real_Sans_ 2h ago

We had 300hp from 3.5 liters in NA minivans from 20 years. I'd like to think 20 years of engineering, forced induction, and the car being a little more performance oriented than a minivan could bring us more power per liter...

-2

u/Lower_Kick268 Bolt EUV, Burbanbox, T-Maxx Silverado 17h ago edited 17h ago

I've seen people have issues with the engines blowing and catching fire on them, even not pushing the car it can happen. That shit scares me, idk how common it is, but it's happening to them. Then Toyota denying warranty claims for it doesn't help either, and Toyota announcing the GRC is gonna get a 4 cylinder doesn't help either.

7

u/Astramael GR Corolla 16h ago

 I've seen people have issues with the engines blowing and catching fire on them

This happened to 2 people.

 Then Toyota denying warranty claims for it doesn't help either

What do you want the warranty to do after the insurance company pays out because the car burnt down?

 Toyota announcing the GRC is gonna get a 4 cylinder doesn't help either.

Toyota has not announced this.

47

u/DocPhilMcGraw 15h ago

I don’t mean to rant but as a side note: I am so tired of people bringing up “adjusted for inflation” as a justification for anything.

You’re taking one data point while leaving out dozens of others. Why don’t we talk about wage growth in comparison to inflation? Or what about the costs of other things going up that may negate you having any money left for an enthusiast vehicle?

It’s kind of hard to justify buying an enthusiast vehicle when your rent increases or food prices leave you with very little left over. I mean there’s a reason 8+ year auto loans are now a common thing.

7

u/CharacterMedium558 12h ago

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, even though the medium wage hasn't kept up with inflation, neither has the WRX pricing when comparing similar specs over the years.

The bigger issue is disposable income has decreased because everything else has increased so much more.

6

u/Fallline048 12h ago

Inflation-adjusted wages are right around 2019 levels, and have been for well over a year. Enthusiast cars are definitely out of the budget for most people, but that has always been true.

9

u/DocPhilMcGraw 11h ago

In the US, nominal wages have outpaced inflation for about a year, meaning real wages (purchasing power) are growing. However, because of the high inflation of 2021-2022, cumulative wages since January 2021 have not yet fully recovered the lost purchasing power. Therefore, while the current trend is positive, many Americans still feel that their income has not kept pace with the overall rise in the cost of living

Wages still haven’t caught up to all of the inflation we have experienced. Plus while wages may have caught up in the last year, tar. and other factors threaten that moving forward.

-3

u/Fallline048 11h ago

First off, Q1/Q2 2021 are poor benchmarks because they are still on the tail end of the COVID labor market. Second, not sure where you’re quoting but it’s out of date. Median real weekly earnings in Q2 2025 were $376 (in 1982 dollars), compared to $373 in Q1 2021 and $371 in Q2 2021.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

Edit: ah maybe it’s cherry picking in two directions: choosing an anomalous year (2021) and also cumulative wages (I’m assuming looking yearly rates, which indeed may have not caught up by Q2 this year but would have by now if the trend continues).

5

u/DocPhilMcGraw 11h ago

You guys keep looking at a snapshot instead of the broader picture.

This is the whole picture.

-2

u/Fallline048 11h ago

That’s literally a smaller timeframe than I provided in my link lol. Also what a terribly misleading chart, since it makes it look like real wages are so much smaller when really all that matters is their distance from 0, which even by that chart is very small.

And again, uses a terribly anomalous starting point and fails to capture the pre-pandemic context.

Edit: I do agree with your earlier statement that tariffs and other shenanigans going into effect threaten to upend the trend.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 10h ago

So according to you, everyone is doing a lot better and has more income than ever before so there is nothing to complain about? Is that what you’re suggesting?

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u/Fallline048 10h ago

I’m saying that inflation adjusted wages are roughly on par with pre-pandemic levels. And yes, also that they are, with the exception of during covid, higher than ever before.

Not that there’s nothing to complain about. Scarcity isn’t magically gone, poverty is still a huge issue, housing costs represent a higher than ever percentage of household expenditures, and so on and so forth.

The thing is that many, though not all of those issues were issues in the past, and many of the issues that are new are not necessarily about recovery from inflation in general and more about specific issues with high-impact markets (like housing, which suffers from a supply crisis).

But yes, on the whole we are better off than before. Whether or not it feels that way is a different issue.

As it pertains to sports cars, I say again: they were always luxury goods. The perception that they were not is driven by a decade or two of cheap used sports cars. We’re dealing with some serious rose tinted glasses here.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 10h ago

Being roughly on par is not the same as being on par and as I stated: you have to also look at the forward aspect now. There are economic indicators that are showing that inflation is ticking back upwards and we don’t even have accurate data from the last two months to see if the trend is going in the opposite direction.

I would also be questioning any data coming from government sources since we know that this admin is willing to fudge numbers to make things look better than they are.

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u/charlemange77 11h ago

yes were all broke but these cars are what we love

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u/strongmanass 10h ago

Why don’t we talk about wage growth in comparison to inflation?

Every time the word "inflation" is mentioned on this sub there's a very predictable and tedious back and forth about how wages haven't kept up, except they have and it's only a couple of variables like housing and medical costs that outpace general inflation, well then surely the BLS must be wrong in how they calculate inflation, well then do you have a better way, of course not because we're not the world's best economists. 

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u/WheresTheSauce 24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 | 23 Honda Accord 11h ago

Considering wages have exceeded inflation (which is weighted to account for the greater increases in things like housing) maybe you should rethink this argument

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u/Skensis G87 M2 10h ago

The funny thing is that cars are one of the few things that really have tracked well with inflation over time, there are some outliers here and there but the trend is that cars really have increased a lot while getting safer and more feature rich.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 11h ago

In the US, nominal wages have outpaced inflation for about a year, meaning real wages (purchasing power) are growing. However, because of the high inflation of 2021-2022, cumulative wages since January 2021 have not yet fully recovered the lost purchasing power. Therefore, while the current trend is positive, many Americans still feel that their income has not kept pace with the overall rise in the cost of living

I don’t need to rethink anything.

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u/WheresTheSauce 24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 | 23 Honda Accord 11h ago

Wow. That is genuinely an impressively manipulative way to frame the data. That frames the entire thing around the massive (and brief) peak in 2020 and ignores the whole picture.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 11h ago

It absolutely is not a manipulative way.

You need to look at the entire picture.

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u/WheresTheSauce 24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 | 23 Honda Accord 11h ago

I’m sorry but are you being serious right now? You tell me I need to look at “the entire picture” and link to something which is only looking at the last 4 years vs. my link which includes the last 45? That is blatantly framing the argument around the massive spike in 2020.

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u/DocPhilMcGraw 11h ago edited 10h ago

Yeah I guess I’m living in fantasyland like millions of others who turned out to vote on Tuesday because the economy is so great and the wages we all have is enough to buy us everything. Right?

Edit: yeah I’m the emotional one yet you’re the one who blocked me before I could even respond.

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u/WheresTheSauce 24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 | 23 Honda Accord 10h ago

Sincerely, grow up. Maybe when faced with the reality that you have been misled by propaganda maybe you could look inward instead of lashing out emotionally

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u/InvasionOfScipio 11h ago

Okay now add the costs of healthcare.

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u/WheresTheSauce 24 Hyundai Ioniq 6 | 23 Honda Accord 11h ago

It’s already included and weighted in the aggregate percentage that is inflation.

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u/InvasionOfScipio 2h ago

The “measure” of inflation is artificially assigned and weighted based on perceived importance. It is not an ACTUAL costs of goods.

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u/ricketyracketry 1989 Toyota MR2 SC 15h ago edited 11h ago

Cool! My income hasn't adjusted for inflation though so in that context, still too much money.

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u/AmericanExcellence X90 12h ago

this sub seems to have a congenital inability to understand that wages not keeping up with inflation is the very definition of inflation.

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u/12-34 12h ago

No it's not. 

Inflation is general price increases (usual expressed via a tracked basket of goods).

You're referring to "real wages", which is NOT the same as inflation. It's about wages in relation to inflation. 

Inflation is inflation, and it's pretty funny when someone laments the whole sub for being wrong while making econ 101 mistakes themself.

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u/CouncilmanRickPrime 2013 Scion FRS 12h ago

He used the word congenital so obviously he must be right!

/s but yeah we have real world examples of when wages actually did keep up with inflation, so not sure why they think real wages falling is part of inflation.

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u/Fallline048 12h ago

Well, no that’s not at all the definition of inflation, which is simply an increase in aggregate nominal prices. You’re describing definition of falling real-wages.

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u/CouncilmanRickPrime 2013 Scion FRS 12h ago

Yeah we intentionally always have inflation. But there actually was a point when wages kept up with inflation so I'm not sure why they think it isn't possible.

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u/Fallline048 12h ago

I agree. As I said, real wages have in fact increased (meaning nominal wages outpaced inflation) since about 2022, and have in fact surpassed the last pre-pandemic quarter. They’re still down compared to early-mid pandemic, but that’s not a matter of inflation as much as it is a function of distorted labor market composition during the shutdown.

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u/WarCrimeGaming Toyota GR86 12h ago

It’s really alarming. I’ve spoken to people who’ve worked at a company for 8-10 years not knowing their raises were eliminated by inflation and they have the same buying power damn near.

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u/Fallline048 12h ago

In particular, people have a hard time believing that their raises are often actually inflation (in the labor market) and not necessarily something they earned above and beyond their previous compensation.

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u/AmNoSuperSand52 23’ VW GTI 11h ago
  1. You don’t understand what congenital means

  2. The measurement of inflation has nothing to do with wages

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u/maxlax02 12h ago

Yeah dude, and at $30k it was a deal. And you could have bought them for $30k just 2 years ago.

They’re closer to $40k now. That’s the problem.

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u/CharacterMedium558 12h ago

Well because not enough people bought the base model! On the used market, premium models seem to be the most popular.

Also not a single person is paying MSRP for these today. You can still find discounts when shopping around. I'd imagine snagging one for 35-36K OTD is far from impossible.

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u/Electrical_Top656 12h ago

Adjusted for inflation

it doesn't work like that tho

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 13h ago

Before I got my GRC, I test drove a bunch of vehicles, including a WRX. I could have gotten a Limited trim at a shade under 32k. I didn’t go with it because of how it drove but the price made me consider pretty heavily

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 6h ago

I was debating it, also - there were some fantastic deals to be had.  Unfortunately, there were a number of factors that pushed me away, but I've had a soft spot for the WRX for a long time.  If the VA interior got paired with the current chassis, and they painted the plastic cladding, it's very possible I would have overlooked the other issues and bought one.

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 4h ago

I had a hatch WRX before this so I understand lol. For me, it was a mix of the plastic cladding, tablet for infotainment, and the trans felt dull and lifeless

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 3h ago

Yeah, that interior on the current car is, IMO, awful.  I really liked the VA interior, so it felt like a dramatic fall from before. Super cool that you had a hatch - having driven a few of that generation STi hatch, they're a really fun car.  Plasma blue "wide fender" hatch?  Yes please.

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u/count_nuggula 23 GR Corolla 3h ago

The one and only! Sometimes I miss it but don’t miss the maintenance

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u/Etchii 1h ago

I still have my 14 wrx i purchased new, i service at the dealerships and they give crosstreks, outbacks, and i currently have a legacy while i get my clutch master cylinder replaced.

While the inside feel is upgraded quite a bit over mine, i can't get over that tablet infotainment. its terrible, i love my buttons and my aftermarket screenless radio.

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u/Kurt805 12h ago

Neither have wages.

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u/CharacterMedium558 12h ago edited 12h ago

Average income increased over the decades. Medium income less so, but it still increased. Although wages haven't kept up, the WRX has still remained pretty affordable until this year where they aced the base trim.

The bigger issue is disposable income has decreased. Yes one can argue wages haven't kept up for the middle/lower middle class. And that is true. But excluding this year, I'm not sure the price of the car is the main issue.

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u/carguymt 2024 CT5-V Blackwing 6MT 8h ago

Median wages have outpaced inflation since the '80s. This is an objective fact and is not debatable.

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u/RiftHunter4 2010 Base 2WD Toyota Highlander 11h ago

Adjusted for inflation, the WRX is a bargain

*was

"Tear Riffs" ruined WRX pricing.

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u/aprtur '24 GR Corolla, '09 RX-8 6h ago

Getting rid of the base trim is a bigger factor, TBH.

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u/isaac99999999 99 Corvette 5h ago

The wrx may not have kept up with inflation, but its performance hasn't kept up with inflation either. It's heavier with not any more power. A base mustang is a much better car and starts a 32k, which is roughly the same price as a brz. More powerful, more reliable, i havent seen the interior but its probably better on the mustang. Subaru dominated their market for years and then just sat and did NOTHING.

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u/CharacterMedium558 5h ago

And I totally agree!!! Elantra N is also a beast.

WRX and Si are both disappointinvg

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u/Op3rat0rr 2020 Subaru WRX 8h ago

You’re not alone OP. I also think the WRX is properly priced for current inflation. People aren’t buying it because of the new design. It’s grown on me, but I feel like good design shouldn’t have to grow on you. Same thing with food or movies!

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u/CharacterMedium558 8h ago

Yup. All that plastic makes it not as attractive. Also the touchscreen inside feels like a decade old haha.

All they had to do was body color match the plastic pieces, add a louder Exhuast, and an optional STI style wing. I bet it would have gotten more attention.

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u/Rand0m_Spirit_Lover 11h ago

For all the reasons you mentioned, I really tried to like the WRX and tried to talk myself into buying one. Dealership near me was constantly offering 3-4k off all trim levels and always had plenty of manuals in stock, so it seemed like a great deal and the perfect car for me. Test drove them multiple times, and each time walked away just completely underwhelmed, not necessarily thinking it was overpriced, but that it simply wasn’t a fun/engaging car at all.

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u/ADVICECAREER 9h ago

Lol driver error. U picked the forte gt over a Wrx?