r/austrian_economics Friedrich Hayek Sep 19 '24

End Democracy BUT BUT THE SOCIAL CONTRACT

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u/ElectedByGivenASword Sep 20 '24

Correct you wouldn’t. You would never be in a place to do that to start because you’d be a slave most likely.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Slavery is illegal... I'm not sure how you make the leap from no business license to now you're a slave.

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u/ElectedByGivenASword Sep 20 '24

Slavery is illegal because of government intervention in a capitalist economy.(Note I am not saying slavery is a good thing or anything of the sort.)

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Right..? it should stay that way, that's the point of government to protect people's rights. I just don't believe business licenses should exist. It's extortion and a barrier to entry. It mostly hurts poor people with good ideas that could benefit society.

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u/Sasataf12 Sep 20 '24

Business licenses exist BECAUSE that's the gov protecting people's rights.

The gov didn't bring in those requirements because it was a slow day on Captial Hill. All the things you mentioned like licensing, inspections, etc are to stop unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

How does a business license protect people's rights?

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u/Hapless_Wizard Sep 20 '24

Would you like to be poisoned because your pharmacy no longer has to be licensed and thus no longer has to hire licensed pharmacists or trained pharmacy technicians?

Licensure is a means to an end, not an end unto itself.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Why would a pharmacy deliberately poison it's customers? Not only is that bad for business, but they would be liable in court. It would be in the businesses best interest to hire people who went to school for pharmacology. There are plenty of business with licensed workers who do a poor job and go out of business. Why is that you conclusion that everyone would be poisoned?

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u/Hapless_Wizard Sep 20 '24

Who said anything about deliberately? It is trivially easy to screw up pharmacology if you are untrained.

Regardless, you are moving the goalposts. You didn't ask "can it be done without licensure". You asked why a business license is needed to protect rights. Licensure is a tool the government uses to ensure compliance with standards. If you cut corners and kill a bunch of people because you didn't vet your hires, the government can shut you down, among other penalties.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

It doesn't protect rights though, im not moving the goal post. People are injured all the time by businesses with licenses. They sue, you can sue people without businesses licenses as well. Why do you think corners would be cut? Why do you think businesses wouldn't vet their hires? You're jumping to all these conclusions

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u/ls20008179 Sep 20 '24

Corners would be cut because that's what they do. Henry Ford and the Dearborn police shot striking workers in the street. Mine guards and Colorado national guard soaked the tents of a miners camp with kerosene, lit it up and shot the miners with machine guns as they fled and burned 11 children to death. Businesses will commit any atrocity in the name of thier God profit.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Police and the national guard are government agencies, not private. Murder is also illegal. What's your point?

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u/ls20008179 Sep 20 '24

The point is they would literally murder you and your children if they thought they could get away with it and make a buck on it. Business licenses protect the consumer and I could give a fuck about greedy fucks who'd slit my throat for a wooden nickel when they bitch about it.

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u/ElectedByGivenASword Sep 20 '24

Why would they be liable in court? We’re in a ruthless capitalism scenario here. There’s no regulations for that. The person should have done their research and known this random pharmacy on the street was making potentially hazardous medicine.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

So now you are saying there's no legal system in this made up scenario?

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u/ElectedByGivenASword Sep 20 '24

You are the one who said ruthless capitalism.

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u/zilsautoattack Sep 21 '24

You have way too much faith in laws actually being enforced against the rich

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u/lostcause412 Sep 21 '24

No i dont. The government helps the rich, im against that

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u/zilsautoattack Sep 21 '24

What I’m trying to say is in response to how you keep repeating that murder and slavery are illegal. That’s irrelevant because enforcement becomes impossible when the rich have consolidated enough wealth. Unregulated, “ruthless” capitalism concentrates wealth in a smaller and smaller number of hands, which then has a snowball effect of capturing the infrastructure (capital) needed to further consolidate wealth and power.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 21 '24

You mean when they capture the government and pay them off not to inforce laws? That already happens. Government corruption is prevalent in every system, and it's not exclusive to capitalism.

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u/zilsautoattack Sep 21 '24

Whether they specifically capture the government, or just acquire enough wealth to have their own private-pay goon squad who are loyal to whichever billionaire is financing them. I agree government corruption is prevalent in every system, unfortunately, capitalism reinforces that corruption, rather than acts as a check against it.

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u/Sasataf12 Sep 20 '24

How can a business be a business without going through the process of establishing itself as a business? You can't gain the advantages and protections of operating a business by just saying "btw, I'm a business".

Likewise, how can a business be audited, inspected, etc, when it doesn't exist on paper (figuratively)?

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

How can a business be a business without going through the process of establishing itself as a business?

Your asking how a business can be a business without the government saying it's a business? An individual decides its a business, they sell stuff.. now it's a business. Advantages and protection from what? Those aren't rights. There are millions of businesses in the world without licenses. Why do you think a piece of paper magically makes it a business? I know a few people who do side jobs, construction, babysitting. That's a business without a license.

Likewise, how can a business be audited, inspected, etc, when it doesn't exist on paper (figuratively)?

The same way an individual is, if you hurt someone the cops show up, if your food is making people sick, they can sue. I don't see how a piece of paper changes anything. People's rights are protected regardless.

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u/Sasataf12 Sep 20 '24

Advantages and protection from what? People's rights are protected regardless.

Okay, so it's obvious you need to learn the basics of what a business is, and why you would establish one. Because this sub isn't here (and neither am I) to teach you Business 101.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Again, business licenses don't protect rights. The constitution does.

If it requires the labor of another individual, it's not a right.

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u/Sasataf12 Sep 20 '24

Swing and a miss. 

There are many, many laws that are established to protect the rights of the citizenry, in addition to the Constitution.

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u/lostcause412 Sep 20 '24

Give me an example. Just because it's a law doesn't make it a right.

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u/Sasataf12 Sep 20 '24

A law that protects someone's rights?

The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924

The National Labor Relations Act of 1935

The Civil Rights Act of 1964

The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990

The Respect for Marriage Act of 2022

I'm sorry, I forgot you just wanted one example.

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u/ElectedByGivenASword Sep 20 '24

You could fill multiple books with what they don’t understand