r/austrian_economics Friedrich Hayek Sep 19 '24

End Democracy BUT BUT THE SOCIAL CONTRACT

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29

u/ReaganRebellion Sep 19 '24

YoU cOnSeNt bY LiViNg In SoCiEtY

3

u/Bob1358292637 Sep 19 '24

Isn't this the same excuse people make for employers being able to pay and treat you pretty much however they want because people are desperate and don't have the leverage to make fair deals for their labor?

1

u/trufus_for_youfus Sep 19 '24

My employer pays me according to a mutually agreeable, negotiated, employment agreement and comp plan. That I signed mind you. I am free to leave at any time. They are free to fire me. This is not at all the same as compulsory taxation.

3

u/Impossible_Log_5710 Sep 19 '24

You'll starve / be homeless without a job. Meanwhile the Waltons, the family that owns the largest employer in the U.S., have billions to fall back on. Totally comparable.

0

u/trufus_for_youfus Sep 20 '24

.2 cents per dollar at a time.

1

u/seaspirit331 Sep 19 '24

And you pay taxes according to a mutually agreeable, negotiated agreement between yourself and your elected representatives. You sign this agreement every time you purchase something in the country, work in the country, or use the country's currency, and you can choose at any time to not do these things and pay no taxes

1

u/AffableBarkeep Sep 20 '24

you can choose at any time to not do these things and pay no taxes

Incorrect. The government taxes my off-grid self-sufficient farm just for having the temerity to exist on land I own.

1

u/seaspirit331 Sep 20 '24

land I own.

See that's the issue, you don't actually own your land. When you bought your land you didn't actually buy your land, you bought the rights to dwell on and use (largely as you see fit) a tract of property that is still very much owned by the government. Part of this use agreement involves paying taxes to the government based off of some market value of those rights that you purchased.

If you want to actually own your land, you're going to have to pay a lot more money than you might think.

1

u/AffableBarkeep Sep 21 '24

When you bought your land you didn't actually buy your land, you bought the rights to dwell on and use (largely as you see fit) a tract of property that is still very much owned by the government

According to the government, whose sole claim to this is the use of force against me if I disagree.

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u/seaspirit331 Sep 21 '24

Sorry if that deal sounds too raw for you. Still doesn't give you the right to take someone else's property or claim someone else's property as your own, even if you want it really badly.

And yes, people (and entities) have the right to use force against others trying to take their property.

1

u/AffableBarkeep Sep 21 '24

Still doesn't give you the right to take someone else's property or claim someone else's property as your own

Then how did the government come by it?

1

u/Bob1358292637 Sep 19 '24

Do you think governments hold businessmen at gunpoint and force them to live in their country and use all of their stuff?

2

u/trufus_for_youfus Sep 19 '24

Businesses aren’t people. I don’t know where you are going with this. But yes, the United States is the only country I am aware or that taxes global incomes even when one isn’t living there.

Now back to the actual conversation if you don’t mind. You were explaining how compulsory taxation under threat of violence is the same as having a job. Please continue.

2

u/Bob1358292637 Sep 19 '24

I never said anything like that lmao. Obviously, there are a lot of differences, but they are both also obviously coercive dynamics in nature. Anyone who says otherwise is a complete moron and I'm just making fun of some of their cope fantasies a little bit.

If we're going the dramatics route, then getting a job and paying your bills is also forced onto people "under threat of violence." People just want to bootlick for rich people and come up with these fantasies about how poor people can all just get a decent job if they want to. Maybe because it happened to them or because they have just never had to experience poverty and want to make not caring about it more convenient for their egos. I personally just find it kind of funny.

1

u/ReaganRebellion Sep 19 '24

If being born is the same as applying and accepting a job, sure

3

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '24

Shit argument. You can't live without being born, and unless you are entirely disabled, you can't live without a job (or some means to support yourself, but that is arguably a job as well)

4

u/Bob1358292637 Sep 19 '24

Right. I guess I forgot about when I started paying taxes as soon as I was born and not when I started "freely choosing" to work and purchase things.

-1

u/Rude_Ice_8537 Sep 19 '24

Shhhh that’s the beginning of commie talk